# Help me debunk a claim made by my conspiracy theorist friend **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 13, 2023, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-debunk-a-claim-made-by-my-conspiracy-theorist-friend/978171 "2023-01-13T15:13:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-debunk-a-claim-made-by-my-conspiracy-theorist-friend/978171/61 "2023-01-16T18:00:11Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > ‘Gaslighting’ has been a term used by all sides for a long time. One has to remember that antivaxxers ignore that both sides are not equal, the gaslighting from anti vaccine people includes a lot of gas by making the asinine argument that the health experts “repeatedly lied” when the case is that anti vaccine people produce a mountain of lies that also include lying about what the health authorities said then or do now. > **[It's Not News, Nor 'Scandalous,' That Pfizer Trial Didn't Test Transmission -...](https://www.factcheck.org/2022/10/scicheck-its-not-news-nor-scandalous-that-pfizer-trial-didnt-test-transmission/)** > > The COVID-19 vaccine clinical trials were designed to study the vaccine’s safety and efficacy in preventing symptomatic disease, not transmission. But online publications now misleadingly present the fact that the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine was not... > **[PolitiFact - A social media post using old Fauci email falsely claims that...](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jun/02/instagram-posts/post-using-old-fauci-email-falsely-claims-fauci-li/)** > > A release of emails that Dr. Anthony Fauci sent during the early stages of the coronavirus outbreak has triggered a new > **[Fact Check: Debunking misinformation about face masks](https://www.kmbc.com/article/fact-check-debunking-misinformation-about-face-masks/37306178)** > > Since the beginning of the pandemic, there has been a raging — sometimes ill-informed — debate over the effectiveness of face masks as protection against SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. > **[Myths vs. Facts: Making Sense of COVID-19 Vaccine Misinformation](https://www.bu.edu/articles/2021/myths-vs-facts-covid-19-vaccine/)** > > With so much wrong information circulating, convincing people to get vaccinated has proven a huge challenge ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-debunk-a-claim-made-by-my-conspiracy-theorist-friend/978171/62 "2023-01-16T19:39:47Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > the asinine argument that the health experts “repeatedly lied” when the case is that anti vaccine people produce a mountain of lies Absolutely. I get heartily sick of idiots bleating “scientists lied!!1!!”, when what really happened is that scientists obtained new data that led to them refining their conclusions. Guess what people? Science is willing to change in the face of new evidence. That is one reason why science advances and works so well. Slamming science for doing exactly what it is supposed to do is good evidence that you’re all a pack of morons. ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/staggerlee/32/3134_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-debunk-a-claim-made-by-my-conspiracy-theorist-friend/978171/63 "2023-01-16T22:02:37Z")
Similarly, the total rejection of ‘mainstream’ media, as if it’s all singing from the same conspiratory hymn sheet is offensively stupid. What journalist wouldn’t want to unearth massive, unforeseen vaccine side-effects if they were actually going on? The fabulous UK satirical magazine Private Eye digs up evidence of (less exotic, self-enriching) conspiracies regularly, for instance. Admittedly, they were on the wrong side of the Wakefield vaccine/autism bullshit for a time, before realising. ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2023, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-debunk-a-claim-made-by-my-conspiracy-theorist-friend/978171/64 "2023-01-17T00:23:37Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Guess what people? Science is willing to change in the face of new evidence. That is one reason why science advances and works so well. Slamming science for doing exactly what it is supposed to do is good evidence that you’re all a pack of morons. The difference is that that process, or at least a good chuck of it, normally plays out when (as far as the general public is concerned) **nobody** is paying attention. This time, the whole world was paying attention, and an awful lot of people misinterpreted the reason for the changing information. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2023, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-debunk-a-claim-made-by-my-conspiracy-theorist-friend/978171/65 "2023-01-17T03:20:05Z")
Vaccine hesitancy isn’t going away in our lifetime, so while I definitely lean on scale, esp. with friends, I don’t let it occupy too much of my time. [The\_cow\_pock.jpg (1279×915) (wikimedia.org)](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/The_cow_pock.jpg) 1802 smallpox era ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2023, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-debunk-a-claim-made-by-my-conspiracy-theorist-friend/978171/66 "2023-01-17T21:20:54Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > _Herd_ immunity, you say? Sheeple, I tell you, them all! It’s in the very name, for Pasteur’s sake! If they’re Sheeple, wouldn’t that be _flock_ immunity? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2023, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-debunk-a-claim-made-by-my-conspiracy-theorist-friend/978171/67 "2023-01-17T21:28:49Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > And it resulted in a massive drop in cervical cancer cases over the past decade. HPV vaccination rates may have even reached herd immunity levels. worth restating this, because the _ **MASSIVE DROP** _, deserves capitals and bolding. It has cut the rate of cervical cancer in young women [by an estimated 87% in the UK](https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2689). That is fairly astonishing. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2023, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-debunk-a-claim-made-by-my-conspiracy-theorist-friend/978171/68 "2023-01-17T21:43:30Z")
I’ve actually heard (herd?) antivaxers pretending that the very name “herd immunity” is insulting to human beings, implying that we are naught but brute beasts. Incidentally, if there’s any remote silver lining to the current antivaxer excess about Covid-19 immunization, it’s that they’re spending less time screeching about HPV vaccination, previously a major emphasis. > **[Death by Gardasil? Not so fast there…](https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/death-gardasil-not-so-fast/)** > > There is a type of "vaccine injury" story promoted by the antivaccine movement that is particularly pernicious, a narrative I call "death by Gardasil." The stories, which use tenuous connections betwe ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2023, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-debunk-a-claim-made-by-my-conspiracy-theorist-friend/978171/69 "2023-01-17T21:47:29Z")
Would _you_ want to be referred to as a “sheep flocker”? ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2023, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-debunk-a-claim-made-by-my-conspiracy-theorist-friend/978171/70 "2023-01-17T22:23:17Z")
Quoted from your link (bolding mine, link broken). While I find this appalling, I can’t say I’m surprised. A brief aside, while I couldn’t find any quick stats, oral cancer cases are expected to take a major tumble as well. > I’ve even seen claims that “shaken baby syndrome” (now known as abusive head trauma) is actually a **misdiagnosis for vaccine injury** (http s://sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-antivaccine-lie-that-just-wont-die-shaken-baby-syndrome-is-really-due-to-vaccine-injury/), with antivaxers going so far as to defend child killers by claiming that it was vaccines that killed the baby, not the child abuser ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2023, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-debunk-a-claim-made-by-my-conspiracy-theorist-friend/978171/71 "2023-01-17T23:17:45Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Maybe they decided that zero doesn’t really exist, or **Pi is 22/7**. Who knows! > [**bolding** mine.] Boy, that was close: > **[Did a state legislature once pass a law saying pi equals 3?](https://www.straightdope.com/21341975/did-a-state-legislature-once-pass-a-law-saying-pi-equals-3)** > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > If they’re Sheeple, wouldn’t that be _flock_ immunity? Darn, and I thought flocks had wings and feathers! So sheep _can_ fly after all, Monthy Python was right! Imagine the commertial possibilities! ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2023, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-debunk-a-claim-made-by-my-conspiracy-theorist-friend/978171/72 "2023-01-17T23:41:17Z")
Well, we do know that more than half of all covid deaths in Arizona were in people old enough to vote (per the [Arizona Dept of Health Services](https://www.azdhs.gov/covid19/data/index.php#deaths), just 75 out of those 32K deaths were in people less than 20 years old). Most died after the vaccine was available: Arizona made the vaccine available to all adults on March 22, 2021, at which point 1.8 million Arizonans had already received at least one shot, and the death toll stood just below 17K ([cite](https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/arizona/)). Republicans outnumber Democrats in voter registration ([cite](https://azsos.gov/elections/results-data/voter-registration-statistics)). That means at least some of your predicate conditions have been met. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2023, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-debunk-a-claim-made-by-my-conspiracy-theorist-friend/978171/73 "2023-01-18T05:48:44Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Would _you_ want to be referred to as a “sheep flocker”? “Sheep lie.” ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2023, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-debunk-a-claim-made-by-my-conspiracy-theorist-friend/978171/74 "2023-01-18T09:19:20Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Would _you_ want to be referred to as a “sheep flocker”? “…but you flock _one sheep_…” ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2023, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-debunk-a-claim-made-by-my-conspiracy-theorist-friend/978171/75 "2023-01-18T17:29:11Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > “…but you flock _one sheep_…” I don’t think you _can_ flock just one sheep. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2023, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-debunk-a-claim-made-by-my-conspiracy-theorist-friend/978171/76 "2023-01-18T17:45:15Z")
I mean … do you _have to_? > **[Flocking (texture)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flocking_(texture))** > > Flocking is the process of depositing many small fiber particles (called flock) onto a surface. It can also refer to the texture produced by the process, or to any material used primarily for its flocked surface. Flocking of an article can be performed for the purpose of increasing its value. It can also be performed for functional reasons including insulation, slip-or-grip\[clarification needed\] friction, retention of a liquid film, and low reflectivity. > Flocking is used in many ways. One exampl... ---
**Author:** ![Folly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folly/32/3219_2.png) [@Folly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folly)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2023, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-debunk-a-claim-made-by-my-conspiracy-theorist-friend/978171/77 "2023-01-18T21:26:29Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I don’t think you _can_ flock just one sheep It’s like lay’s potato chips. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2023, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-debunk-a-claim-made-by-my-conspiracy-theorist-friend/978171/78 "2023-01-18T21:30:31Z")
> [@Folly](#): > > It’s like lay’s potato chips. But you lay _one_ potato chip… ---
**Author:** ![SuntanLotion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suntanlotion/32/16165_2.png) [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2023, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-debunk-a-claim-made-by-my-conspiracy-theorist-friend/978171/79 "2023-01-18T21:32:53Z")
I am in awe of your humor. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2023, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-debunk-a-claim-made-by-my-conspiracy-theorist-friend/978171/80 "2023-01-18T22:01:48Z")
To have a meaningful change in voter demographics I think you’d need a more virulent pathogen than SARS-CoV-2 and a much greater emphasis on vaccine refusal by adherents of one party/philosophy. Not an impossible scenario though… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-debunk-a-claim-made-by-my-conspiracy-theorist-friend/978171.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-debunk-a-claim-made-by-my-conspiracy-theorist-friend/978171.md?page=5)