We had dogs growing up, but never “indoors” dogs, so I’m more used to the idea of a dog being happier outside where it can run around a bit. But I can see how a dog that’s indoors sometimes wouldn’t necessarily be happy to be locked outside all day. Definitely worth considering.
As for breed etc, I’m going to visit the animal shelter here on Saturday, and tell them pretty much what I’ve told you guys, and see what they suggest. Hopefully they’ll know their animals well enough to suggest a dog with the right temperament for us. I’ve no great ties to any particular “look” in a dog, so really if the shelter has a dog that they think could be happy with us, I’ll be guided by them.
I am a big believer in crates, but hate to see any dog left over 4-5 hours. If you can’t make it back to give it a mid day break, see if a neighbor or professional dog walker can. Doggy day care is a great idea too. At a day care, the dogs get a lot of the exercise they need for rhe day.
Two adult dogs would be ideal for your situation, since dogs are pack animals and usually don’t like to be alone. Not sure about the situation in Ireland, but in my area the local rescue organizations are always advertising that they have 2 dogs who have been together for X years and are bonded (owner died, moved, etc) and they don’t want to separate them.
Re indoor vs outdoor…I think it would depend on what the dog was used to. Also in my area, school kids can get community service credit hours for walking other people’s dogs…but because they are in school, they can usually only do it after 3pm.
One more rescue fyi: when we were first looking for a dog, I went to several animal shelters/dog pounds and all they seemed to have were pit bulls (I have kids, so this was not an option). I later learned that our local rescue organizations comb the local shelters for “adoptable” dogs that they place in foster homes to socialize and train them. Not sure if this is the same in Ireland, but you may want to check into it.
Walk a friend’s dog. Dogs are a pain in the arse when you have a heavy schedule. Do you go on many foreign holidays too? After my last dog I’ve resolved not to have any pets again.
I know enough single people who work full-time and own happy dogs that get left alone for 8-9 hours a day (work + commute) that I don’t think having a dog-walker every single day is necessary. If you can afford it without breaking your back, then it’s a nice idea. But you shouldn’t feel like working full time prevents you from owning a dog.
I seriously hope that they suggest you forget any idea of getting a dog or dogs. How could you even contemplate leaving it or them alone all day while you’re both at work? Dogs are intelligent and sociable animals, not something to amuse you when you have time for it.
Please don’t listen to this. A great many dogs are perfectly fine being left alone during the day, as many people have already posted. Your idea about asking advice from the shelter workers is a good one; if you take their advice and are patient with any behavior issues that crop up (many/most shelter dogs have some issues at first, due to the stress of living in a shelter, abandonment problems, and whatever landed them in there in the first place) I’m sure you will be very happy with your dog for a long time.
Our (adopted) Golden Retreiver frequently spends hours or most of the day in the house without humans (one of the cats is her buddy). She’s fine with it, both from the toileting perspective and the ‘pack animal’ perspective. We’ve only had solitary dogs and they do fine, although some breeds no doubt handle this better than others. Mostly she naps until we get home. she sleeps in a crate at night and frequently during the day as well (the door of the crate is open during the day, so that’s her choice). You might not even need to worry about the keeping her off the carpeting, if she’s well housetrained.
My golden can go as far as I can on our runs (and probably further). My husky could run all day, too - but she’d do it whether you were along for the journey or not, if she could get out on her own…
Oh, man, if everyone in the U.S. followed this advice we’d be euthanizing dogs by the millions. Our mini poodle was always fine being left alone - they snooze, or chew on a slobbery bone for a while, or snooze, or lick their crotch, or snooze. Only the clingiest and maladjusted of dogs can’t be freaking left alone long enough for their owners to earn their daily bread.
Another vote for it being OK to work full time and have dogs!
I’m also single, work full-time and have multiple dogs. There are concessions - I get up extra-early in the morning so they all have play time and walks when possible, before I leave for work. Evenings and weekends they get more activities. (It does help to have a neighbor or someone who can drop by and let them out when working extra hours, but that’s not mandatory.)
Dogs are creatures of routine. Even if I’m home all day just puttering around, they’re used to chilling out during the day so they nap, play with each other, follow me around the house, then nap some more - but since daytime is “down time” to them, they don’t expect to be entertained and taken for 10 mile runs at lunch time. One reason dogs excel at being human companions - they adjust very well to our schedules.
It does depend of the breed and disposition. Many working/herding breeds have a lot of energy and it’s not fair to expect them to spend most of their time hanging out and being mellow. But most dogs do just fine, as long as they get some exercise, attention and stimulation when you’re around.
Sorry…but have to defend my little beasties…all eight of which over the last 15 years have easily made excellent housedogs both when actively working or not. We watch them, we teach them “go lie down” and crate them at the beginning. Heck, we even watch them in the yard, which they don’t spend much time in because they prefer the couch if there are no sheep to work. And by “actively working” I mean working sheep three times a week for about an hour - which isn’t much compared to a dog that does it for a living - and 3 mile walks 3-4 times a week. On weeks we don’t do much, for various reasons, they are just as good in the house than when they are kept busy. And I also vote for full-time work and dogs is just fine.
Yes, but you admit it took a lot of training, right? And lots of walks and some work and lots of attention.
I spent many of my formative years with true working BCs - I lived in Scotland, my family had hundreds of sheep, our dogs worked every day. If they weren’t working, they were going on long hikes and 20-mile bike rides; when they had a spare moment they’d herd alll the chickens into a corner, or pick fights with the goats, or bark nonstop. They were awful. Fabulous working dogs (from very select working stock, mind you; they lived to work) but no way would it be fair to make these dogs house dogs. I know a lot of them here (through agility) and some are great, many are extremely neurotic and frustrated animals.
I do think the Border beasties can do fine with lots and lots of commands and work. But the average dog owner - and as someone who actually works and walks your dogs, you’re not average - really, IMO, should not own a working line BC or other herding/working dog.
Now, of course what has happened is breed purity (Godwin alert! Godwin alert!) has been compromised, and many breeds are being dumbed down for pet and show purposes. Which is sad, because you get dumb, mellow, pretty-looking dogs with none of the original working ability left; but in a society that values looks and docility maybe that’s OK.
Mine are from that same stock (I don’t breed myself), 100% bred to work both here and in the UK. I’ve worked on ranches with mine and dogs that actually do work for a real living and haven’t met any that were “awful” despite constant work. Yes, they had to have basic structure in their lives and a good dose of common sense, but it’s very basic training that makes it work, not working 24/7. In fact, I’ve seen some people with pet border collies train them to need constant stimulation- they’ll say “I have to walk her two hours a day and throw the frisbee for another hour at least to settle her down.” Well, you do now because you’ve taught it that you’re her personal entertainment center. I haven’t had one that was true of but I’ve also always had very well-bred, working only dogs. Some of the recent flyball, obedience, agility “lines” may not have kept that same type of temperament as a good working dog has - most of them are useless on stock and so I wouldn’t consider them the same breed anymore. Show BCs are usually mellow and useless too but the “sport” lines breed them intentionally to be reactive and hyper, which is counterintuitive to good working partner.
Sorry, I know it’s lengthy but it’s really not constant exercise that they need and although I admit I’m not the average dog owner, if I sold the sheep tomorrow I’d still keep border collies because they are in every way the most rewarding dog breed - pet or working - that I’ve experienced. I’m not recommending them for everyone but I know many that are excellent pets without hours of exercise. I just don’t like to see them touted as neurotic, hyper beasts because I know that’s not anywhere near the truth of a well-bred working border collie.
Fair enough, but the OP is looking for an indoor pet dog when they have zero experience owning or training one. Therefore, I think it behooves us to advise against dog breeds that, while they have the potential to be wonderful pets, need a little more experience and training than your average low-energy pooch. We’re looking for a starter dog here.
My dogs are neither clingy or maladjusted and are sometimes left alone for 2-3 hours which they are fine with. I just don’t think that leaving them at home alone for 8 hours a day would be conducive to their physical or mental health.
The OP is obviously not an experienced dog owner and is planning to get a dog from a rescue centre in the full knowledge that it will be left alone for 8 hours a day. And you think this is OK? A lot of dogs who wind up in shelters have already been through some traumatic and unsettling experiences. Being re-homed with someone who is out all day isn’t likely to help them adjust to a new lifestyle.
In the UK, the Animal Welfare Act 2006 specifically advises that “dogs should not be left alone for long periods if this may cause them to become bored or distressed.” The Dogs Trust and the RSPCA support this view.
Anyway, it’s obviously a contentious subject and ultimately there’s no way we’re going to reach agreement on it. In my view it’s a bad thing to leave dogs at home alone all day whilst many people who reacted to my previous post think it’s OK.
I still hope that the shelter will not allow the OP to have one of their dogs.
You’re making my case for me - I meant “awful” in an affectionate way BTW (I adore Border collies) but one with a lot of drive can indeed become neurotic and frustrated if not given a lot of mental and physical exercise. Not the fault of the dog at all, but simply a case of a great dog in the wrong home.
Having grown up with the breed, I’ve always said I wouldn’t own one unless I could provide it with really, really a lot of work and play time. Although sure, many make wonderful pets and don’t need a ton of exercise.
I’ve owned several very high-drive dogs in my life, and they’re a lot more work. And would not have been happy dogs or good canine citizens without tons and tons of training, several classes per week, daily walks/bike rides/activities, and so on. My preference is for challenging dogs (I’ve owned Rottweilers for 27 years, have a Jack Russell x cattle dog bitch, have fostered many pit bulls and blind dogs…I’m a dog geek though and enjoy learning from challenging dogs.) But many dogs are simply going to be too much work for the average owner.
I was simply cautioning the OP to consider the dog’s innate temperament and energy level, as purplehorseshoe pointed out.
So… you would rather see a dog put down because there aren’t enough independantly wealthy people that can sit at home all day and play with their dog as opposed to the normal working stiff that has to work a 40 hour week but still loves their dogs and takes great care of them? :dubious:
Sorry, but that attitide is seriously warped. Jesus, what is WRONG with people???
They were awful. Fabulous working dogs (from very select working stock, mind you; they lived to work) but no way would it be fair to make these dogs house dogs. I know a lot of them here (through agility) and some are great, many are extremely neurotic and frustrated animals.