# Help Me Demonstrate Sarah Palin Is a Moron **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 26, 2010, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-demonstrate-sarah-palin-is-a-moron/551551 "2010-08-26T16:42:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-demonstrate-sarah-palin-is-a-moron/551551/81 "2010-08-27T12:11:52Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > No. I am simply pointing out that LBJ tried to do almost exactly what Palin described, and he was a seasoned politician with extraordinary knowledge of the Senate. > > And if even he failed at it, doesn’t that provide some pretty good evidence that that is _not_, in fact, what the VP does? Well, there’s a fair point. But the most THAT says is that Palin was unaware of LBJ’s performance as Vice-President during the period January 1961-November 1963. Certainly that’s something I’d expect a well-informed candidate for national political office to know, but not knowing that is a far cry from not being able to correctly answer, “What does the VP do?” Palin answered that question precisely as LBJ would have answered it in January, 1963. You can’t say her answer proves she’s ignorant about the office without also claiming that LBJ was ignorant about the office. However, you CAN claim (correctly) that Palin was obviously ignorant about LBJ’s time as Vice-President. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-demonstrate-sarah-palin-is-a-moron/551551/82 "2010-08-27T12:33:13Z")
“What color is that house, **Bricker**?” “The side that is facing us would be described by most people as blue.” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-demonstrate-sarah-palin-is-a-moron/551551/83 "2010-08-27T13:55:25Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Palin answered that question precisely as LBJ would have answered it in January, 1963. You can’t say her answer proves she’s ignorant about the office without also claiming that LBJ was ignorant about the office. What do you think LBJ would have made of _this_? > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I suppose I was a little unfair to Mrs. Palin. Let’s include some context. Specifically, let’s look at her understanding of the Vice President’s job the month _before_ she was offered it: > > > [@](#): > > > > As for that VP talk all the time, I’ll tell you, I still can’t answer that question until somebody answers for me what is it exactly that the VP does every day? I’m used to being very productive and working real hard in an administration. We want to make sure that that VP slot would be a fruitful type of position, especially for Alaskans and for the things that we’re trying to accomplish up here for the rest of the U.S., before I can even start addressing that question. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-demonstrate-sarah-palin-is-a-moron/551551/84 "2010-08-27T14:11:09Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Palin answered that question precisely as LBJ would have answered it in January, 1963. You can’t say her answer proves she’s ignorant about the office without also claiming that LBJ was ignorant about the office. Absurd. Did LBJ say that’s what the VP _did_, that that’s what his predecessors _did_ in office? Or was he describing what he was going to try and do in the office and his aspirations? Your own earlier example shows how absurd your statement is. Applying that, the above quote would have you saying: _You can’t say Calvin’s answer proves he’s ignorant about capital of Poland without also claiming that Susie Derkins was ignorant about the capital when she answered correctly one period before._ Palin made a statement that was patently wrong, and is only “correct” in a very esoteric and nuanced way. There is ample evidence that she did not have this sophisticated analysis in mind. She was, regardless of the relatively obscure trivia of LBJ’s statements and attempts, flat wrong. This is an example completely in line with the OP–an example of Palin-speak that reveals her ignorance. That she was a broken clock and got lucky does not affect the question of whether or not she was ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-demonstrate-sarah-palin-is-a-moron/551551/85 "2010-08-27T14:18:41Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Rants belong in The BBQ Pit. This isn’t a rant. It’s a discussion of \*evidence \*of the ignorance and/or stupidity of an American politician. To me, that says GD, GQ, or maybe IMHO. But not the Pit. Reporting this post to ask it to be moved again. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-demonstrate-sarah-palin-is-a-moron/551551/86 "2010-08-27T14:59:02Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > _You can’t say Calvin’s answer proves he’s ignorant about capital of Poland without also claiming that Susie Derkins was ignorant about the capital when she answered correctly one period before._ Krakow! Krakow! Two direct hits! ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-demonstrate-sarah-palin-is-a-moron/551551/87 "2010-08-27T15:25:00Z")
She turned me into a newt! ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-demonstrate-sarah-palin-is-a-moron/551551/88 "2010-08-27T15:26:30Z")
… I got better. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-demonstrate-sarah-palin-is-a-moron/551551/89 "2010-08-27T15:27:21Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I suppose I was a little unfair to Mrs. Palin. Let’s include some context. Specifically, let’s look at her understanding of the Vice President’s job the month _before_ she was offered it: > > > [@](#): > > > > As for that VP talk all the time, I’ll tell you, I still can’t answer that question until somebody answers for me what is it exactly that the VP does every day? I’m used to being very productive and working real hard in an administration. We want to make sure that that VP slot would be a fruitful type of position, especially for Alaskans and for the things that we’re trying to accomplish up here for the rest of the U.S., before I can even start addressing that question. LBJ might have observed that she’s right: what the VP does every day is highly dependent on who’s sitting in the oval office. As the joke goes, when Churchill died in 1965, and LBJ couldn’t attend the funeral, someone suggested they send Hubert, and he supposedly replied, “Hubert who?” Hubert Humphrey was LBJ’s Vice-President. [sup]\*[/sup] And LBJ didn’t live to see Dick Cheney’s role as a Vice-President, a polar opposite to LBJ’s own treatment of Humphrey. So what she’s saying there makes perfect sense to me, and is an excellent answer (except for her idea that as VP she’d want to keep Alaska in a privileged position somehow). But the gravamen of what she’s saying is right on the money: I’d want to know what kind of role the President envisions for his VP. [sup]\*[/sup] As a side historical note, the “Happy Warrior” was absolutely squashed by his role as VP. He was a liberal anti-war guy that couldn’t bring himself to criticize LBJ’s Vietnam efforts. He showed his courage in earlier times by standing up to the bigots in his own party on civil rights as a senator, but his record of backing Johnson to the hilt hurt him in the '68 election and he lost to Nixon. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-demonstrate-sarah-palin-is-a-moron/551551/90 "2010-08-27T15:36:34Z")
She’s not saying she doesn’t know what \*this \*president would want out of his VP. She’s saying she has no clue what \*any \*VP does. I mean, I get you’re playing Devil’s Advocate here, but you’re taking the equivocation waaaaaaaaay past the point of reason. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-demonstrate-sarah-palin-is-a-moron/551551/91 "2010-08-27T15:44:11Z")
Yes, and a handful of monkeys is a troop of gibbering idiots, even if they happen to type out “To be or not to be, that is the question. Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune or to take arms against a sea of troubles dlsuosxj fsd odsoa …” Was it a grand soliloquy? Was it insightful? You certainly can’t call the monkeys ignorant without also refudiating Shakespeare! Just because there is a tortured nexus between her words and LBJ’s views doesn’t diminish the ignorance of her statement—particularly when it’s part of a vast web of such ignorance. The question isn’t whether or not the VP is in charge and what that means, the question is whether or not SP starts from a position of simian ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-demonstrate-sarah-palin-is-a-moron/551551/92 "2010-08-27T15:56:16Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > > > IME, most Americans’ knowledge of history tends to end about WWII. Why? Because that’s how far most history classes get in their book before the end of the school year. > > Seriously. > > -Joe That and because then we get into contemproary history that includes stuff like Vietnam. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-demonstrate-sarah-palin-is-a-moron/551551/93 "2010-08-27T15:57:02Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > Did LBJ say that’s what the VP _did_, that that’s what his predecessors _did_ in office? Or was he describing what he was going to try and do in the office and his aspirations? I’m sure LBJ would have been describing his own aspirations. And I’m sure Plain was describing HER own aspirations. > [@](#): > > _You can’t say Calvin’s answer proves he’s ignorant about capital of Poland without also claiming that Susie Derkins was ignorant about the capital when she answered correctly one period before._ Right. Exactly right. To say Calvin was ignorant, we needd to peer into his mind to see what he was thinking. We can do that, thanks to Bill Watterson. But you can’t similarly peer into Palin’s mind. Miss Wormwood had to mark Calvin’s answer correct. You have to mark Palin’s answer correct. > [@](#): > > Palin made a statement that was patently wrong, and is only “correct” in a very esoteric and nuanced way. This is simply untrue. How is it patently wrong? There are two claims: 1. in charge of the U.S. Senate It’s YOU who must rely on nuance to claim this is wrong. Legally, the Vice-President is the presiding officer of the Senate. And legally, he is entitled to show up there every day and bang the gavel. By traditon and Senate rule, this does not happen, but neither tradition nor Senate rule can flout a Constitutional command: > [@US Const Art I](#): > > The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided. > > The Senate shall chuse their other Officers, and also a President pro tempore, in the Absence of the Vice President, or when he shall exercise the Office of President of the United States. The Constitution clearly says that the Senate’s President Pro-Tem exists to act **in the Absence of the Vice President**. So a VP can, if he wishes, exercise his constitutional duty and never give the President Pro-Tem a day in the chair. As a matter of simple word meaning, it’s not wrong to say, “In charge of the Senate.” 1. …if they want to they can really get in there with the senators and make a lot of good policy changes… John Adams was particularly vocal, advocating for a number of legislative goals as VP. I guess you don’t remember Garret Hobert’s huge, Cheney-like role in the McKinley administration. It’s evident from your remarks that Charles Dawes lived in vain, too, since you evidently don’t recall the contentious matter of the McNary-Haugen so-called “farm relief” bill, passed by Dawes’ vigorous support and ultimately vetoed by Coolidge. And I’ve mentioned LBJ enough that his example hardly needs reiteration here. So from a historical perspective, she’s not wrong either. She is, in other words, PRECISELY in Calvin’s position. She said “Krakow,” and “Krakow” is the right answer. Stop calling it wrong. > [@](#): > > There is ample evidence that she did not have this sophisticated analysis in mind. She was, regardless of the relatively obscure trivia of LBJ’s statements and attempts, flat wrong. Stop calling it wrong. How much more evidence do you need. It’s not wrong. She may have been THINKING something wrong, but she didn’t SAY anything wrong. Which even you implicitly acknowledge: > [@](#): > > That she was a broken clock and got lucky does not affect the question of whether or not she was ignorant. If it’s 12:18, and I look at the clock, and the clock say 12:18, THE CLOCK IS RIGHT. Don’t call it wrong. It’s not. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-demonstrate-sarah-palin-is-a-moron/551551/94 "2010-08-27T16:07:29Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If it’s 12:18, and I look at the clock, and the clock say 12:18, THE CLOCK IS RIGHT. > > Don’t call it wrong. It’s not. But is is broken, and of little use as a clock. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-demonstrate-sarah-palin-is-a-moron/551551/95 "2010-08-27T16:11:45Z")
You’re continuing to desperately cling to a painful partisan line. I’m acknowledging that the broken clock was right. Have at that all you want. The question wasn’t whether or not she was right. Get over it. The question was about her ignorance. That we can’t actually get into her mind is irrelevant–it fits into a massive pattern of similar prattle. The OP asked for examples of ignorance. This is one of them. In most cases she’s a broken _digital_ clock, a blank void of ignorance. In this special case she happened to be a broken analogue clock. Right, sure, whatever. But ignorant. Painfully ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-demonstrate-sarah-palin-is-a-moron/551551/96 "2010-08-27T16:12:46Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > > [@foolsguinea](#): > > > > Oh, and all this noise, & you all have missed the biggest lie of all. \*\*Sarah Palin sold America on the death panels hysteria. \*\*For that she should be banned from public office until she repents. > > Only if she believes it. Lots of Republic spin/lies are deliberately crafted by people who consciously know better, of that I am _quite_ certain. I got the impression that she got this idea from someone else. I don’t think she actually read the legislation and came across a caluse and said "Oh My God, they’re going to convene DEATH PANELS!!! I’ve got to tell the American public!!! I think she was just spouting as fact what she heard someone say in rhetoric. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-demonstrate-sarah-palin-is-a-moron/551551/97 "2010-08-27T16:15:44Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > Another thing about Palin: being governor of Alaska was exposing her to too much hostile media attention. So she slyly goes off the radar by quitting and limiting her appearances and interviews to those who will be friendly to her. She just forgot one thing: if she ever does run for any kind of office again, it’s on. Troopergate, the clothing scandal, her rambling resignation speech… all comes flying out of the closet for glorious lampooning by The Daily Show, etc. The media will be asking her the tough questions again and folksy charm isn’t going to pass muster. Maybe she’s training like Rocky Balboa, getting hit with books until the ignorance is pounded out of her and she can hold forth on any current events topic. But one can only fake being smart for so long, especially in the era of 24-hour news networks and Youtube on every cell phone. Go on Sarah, jump in that shark pit. Go ahead, the water’s fine. I don’t know how much of what we saw was ignorance and how much was stupidity. If it was just ignorance, you can fix that. But you can’t fix stupid. I don’t think Palin will ever run for office again. She will stay right where she is where she can deliver scripted speeches to people even stupider than she is for thousands a pop. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-demonstrate-sarah-palin-is-a-moron/551551/98 "2010-08-27T16:21:27Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > > [@Bricker](#): > > > > If it’s 12:18, and I look at the clock, and the clock say 12:18, THE CLOCK IS RIGHT. > > > > Don’t call it wrong. It’s not. > > But is is broken, and of little use as a clock. Which is Palin in a nutshell. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-demonstrate-sarah-palin-is-a-moron/551551/99 "2010-08-27T16:27:31Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > You’re continuing to desperately cling to a painful partisan line. > > I’m acknowledging that the broken clock was right. Have at that all you want. > [@](#): > > The question wasn’t whether or not she was right. Get over it. > > The question was about her ignorance. > > That we can’t actually get into her mind is irrelevant–it fits into a massive pattern of similar prattle. > > The OP asked for examples of ignorance. This is one of them. In most cases she’s a broken _digital_ clock, a blank void of ignorance. In this special case she happened to be a broken analogue clock. Right, sure, whatever. But ignorant. Painfully ignorant. I disagree only with one sentence above. This is NOT one of them. It’s as though you used the 12:18 example to prove the clock was broken. That’s the one example you can’t use. Yes, she’s wrong all over the place. You’ll notice I’m not defending any of those. How could my defense be partisan when I happily concede she’s an idiot? But not based on this example. Based on this example, she’s right. Pick other examples to prove your point, because this one doesn’t do it. ---
**Author:** ![Indyellen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/indyellen/32/4176_2.png) [@Indyellen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indyellen)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-demonstrate-sarah-palin-is-a-moron/551551/100 "2010-08-27T16:55:06Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > > [@jsgoddess](#): > > > > Mine repeatedly only got halfway through the Civil War. _sigh_ > > > > My only formal education on the World Wars came in Japanese history class. 😃 > > Really? We always made to V E day. That’s it, though. My dad fought in the Korean War and I frankly know a hell of a lot more about, oh, say, the Punic ones. \My daughter’s American History class is STARTING at Dred Scott, so they can make it through to modern era by the end of the school year. Somehow, this does not make me feel warm & fuzzy about her history teacher. :dubious: \ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-demonstrate-sarah-palin-is-a-moron/551551.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-demonstrate-sarah-palin-is-a-moron/551551.md?page=6)