# Help me fight Ignorance - Xenophobia regarding Islam **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 7, 2010, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-fight-ignorance-xenophobia-regarding-islam/527988 "2010-02-07T03:03:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-fight-ignorance-xenophobia-regarding-islam/527988/41 "2010-02-08T21:55:17Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > WHAT?! A Christian extremist is not someone who is just 1) Christian and 2) extreme. His extremism must be in hi Christianity, or the degree he wishes to impose or protect it. You seem to be trying really hard to construct a reality that doesn’t exist. The very thing you seem to be arguing against. I think you need to think this through a little more. As I stated before, if you are wiling to label Muslims who are motivated by political ideology as not Islamic extremists, then I am willing to label McVeigh not a Christian extremist. However, if we are going to label any extremist who is a Muslim, regardless of motivation, as an Islamic extremist, then I am going to label McVeigh a Christian extremist. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-fight-ignorance-xenophobia-regarding-islam/527988/42 "2010-02-08T21:55:42Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I have lots of European friends as well as Americans vacationing in Europe. That might not be a great cite, but for instance I’m told that the South of France is no longer safe for a woman to tour on her own. Walking on the street you’re liable to be rousted by Muslim teens. I’ve had Swedish and Norwegian friends complain about all the crime being caused there by Muslims. That might just be their perception, but I do know that crime rates in Europe have been on the rise, so it seems likely that it isn’t just perception. I don’t believe that argument follows through. Evidence for one premise in an argument isn’t evidence for any other premises in an argument. You have two premises, that crime is on the rise, and that crime is on the rise because of Muslims; that you have evidence of crime being on the rise says nothing about the cause of it, and anecdotal evidence is, as you say, not a great cite (not that I question your friend’s veracity, per se, but that their experiences alone cannot account for a nation, let alone Europe in general). That crime rates are on the rise lends no greater credence to the premise that crime is on the rise because of Muslims; it’s not “likely that it isn’t just perception”, at least, based upon your points here. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-fight-ignorance-xenophobia-regarding-islam/527988/43 "2010-02-08T21:57:28Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > Why should I grant that? His statements were conflicting, and it’s just as reasonable to call him a Christian extremist as it is to say he was an agnostic extremist. Well then by all means produce a cite that shows that he acted in the name of Christianity. Then I am sure we can all agree that he was a Christian extremist. > [@](#): > > However, compiling deaths over the entire history of the United States is rather pointless, since nobody is bombing churches over civil rights anymore. Right now, in the US, in the present, we have two groups that pose a threat to national security - Christian and Islamic extremists. I am sure you would agree that the group that has killed and injured the most people is the greater threat. We have already established that Islamic terrorists have killed roughly a thousand times more than Christian terrorists. Unless you can come up with a lot more evidence than you have so far… Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-fight-ignorance-xenophobia-regarding-islam/527988/44 "2010-02-08T22:00:00Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > As I’ve pointed out multiple times in this thread, there is no particular reason to use this as the sole metric, and that over the entire history of the US, the death toll from Christians is much higher. Now you are being disingenuous. You already agreed that it makes no sense to go back into history, so why use that as a defense? We are talking about the threat in the here and now. so, let’s leave this off the table please, so I don’t have to point out that there were only a tiny number of Muslims here for the majority of their history, none of which to my knowledge would qualify as extremists/terrorists. > [@BrightNShiny](#): > > Yeah, yeah, yeah. You want to limit the statistics in such a way so that you can see which is the “greater” problem, not whether or not both of them are a problem. Personally, I think people stockpiling WMDs in Texas is a problem, regardless of how many people do it, but I can see that since it’s not a “greater” problem, it’s not relevant. He’s trying to apply a metric that makes some sense. The only metric you want to apply is there are two groups that have committed acts of terrorism inside the U.S., therefore they are both equally a threat. Can you not see the flaws in that thinking? > [@BrightNShiny](#): > > Honestly, I never thought I’d see the day when people would so blatantly spit on our national security. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-fight-ignorance-xenophobia-regarding-islam/527988/45 "2010-02-08T22:01:54Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Well then by all means produce a cite that shows that he acted in the name of Christianity. Then I am sure we can all agree that he was a Christian extremist. I am sure you would agree that the group that has killed and injured the most people is the greater threat. No, i would not agree that death is the only metric of the “greater” threat, nor am I constrained to ignoring Christian extremism simply because you consider it a “lesser” threat. But then, I am actually concerned about domestic terrorism. > [@](#): > > We have already established that Islamic terrorists have killed roughly a thousand times more than Christian terrorists. No, we didn’t establish this at all. You selectively picked time periods and are defining acts in such a way so you can claim it’s true. But even if it is true, it is not relevant to whether or not Christian extremism poses a threat to the US. It is possible for multiple groups to pose a threat. > [@](#): > > Unless you can come up with a lot more evidence than you have so far… And here comes the giving a pass, again. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-fight-ignorance-xenophobia-regarding-islam/527988/46 "2010-02-08T22:03:18Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > He’s trying to apply a metric that makes some sense. The only metric you want to apply is there are two groups that have committed acts of terrorism inside the U.S., therefore they are both equally a threat. Can you not see the flaws in that thinking? Stop lying. I never claimed that they are both equally a threat (since I don’t view the claim as particularly meaningful). My claim is that they are both threats and neither should get a pass. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-fight-ignorance-xenophobia-regarding-islam/527988/47 "2010-02-08T22:04:46Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > […] > > As far as statment #2 goes, I was in a 99% Muslim country on 9/11 and only so saw sadness, heard dozens of apologies once it was found out that I am an American, and people uncontrollably sobbing because their loved ones were in New York. Thanks to our willingness to allow immigration, people all over the world have a direct connection with the USA. I personally don’t want that to change because of xenophobes. OK, I gotta ask - wherever were you??? I got curious about the frequently repeated statement that the Muslims who wanted to harm us were an extreme minority analogous to the most extreme Christians who did things like bomb abortion clinics, and so I started hunting opinion polls taken in the Muslim world (or in countries that were primarily religiously and culturally Muslim if you prefer). While there are not many polls taken in those places, there are a few, and generally there were a few tens of percent who responded yes to questions like “Do you support the attack of September 11?” and “Do you agree with the terrorist methods of Osama bin Ladin?” and “Do you think Americans deserve to die?”. Sometimes only 10% or 20% or so supported terrorism against Americans, sometimes 60% or 80% or even 90%. It varied depending on the country and on the question. But it was clear that either a majority or a large minority of the respondents in various places wanted us dead. You probably also remember some news videos of people dancing in the streets (mentioned above) or about the popularity of Osama bin Laden tee-shirts. These things are less quantitative than polls, but certainly contribute to an overall picture of many people in this category. I don’t want to sound alarmist about this. I myself always thought it was dumb to get so worked up over the terrorist attacks on the US. Unguarded swimming pools claim more American lives every year than terrorism did in 2001, and preferentially kill little children. Automobile accidents and suicide each claim more lives in a typical month than terrorism did in September 2001. And, on September 10, 11 and 12, 2001, cigarette smoking killed about as many people as terrorism, for a few thousand dollars a head of profit to the tobacco companies. Yet for some reason trying to cast terrorism into some kind of reasonable perspective is like farting in church. So, in regard to terrorism in general, Americans are causing much more trouble than Muslims from overseas. But to be accurate, at least based on the information I could turn up, there are very many Muslims who would support or endorse violent harm to Americans. I think it is hard to tell accurately, but I think it is pretty implausible that fewer than 100,000,000 of them do, and my best guess is that there are roughly as many Muslims who endorse violent harm to Americans as there are Americans (in other words roughly 35% who would answer “yes” to questions like those above, out of 1 billion Muslims). ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-fight-ignorance-xenophobia-regarding-islam/527988/48 "2010-02-08T22:06:52Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > I didn’t equate the threat by degree. They are both threats, and neither should get a pass. That is PRECISELY what you’re doing. You are assuming that the two groups responsible for terrorism in the U.S. are equal threats—that the degree of the threat is equal among both groups—so we should look at them both equally and not give Muslims such a hard time. But the numbers—which you want to ignore—tell us that it makes more sense to concentrate more of our efforts on Muslims than Christians. But, no, you don’t want to hear it. Fine. Believe what you want. But you should at least bring a better argument if you want to convince anyone that your opinion should be considered. > [@BrightNShiny](#): > > Nope, I would never claim that, because it depends on how you want to analyze the statistics. Why don’t you convince me that people blowing up buildings, shooting people and stock piling WMDs doesn’t constitute a significant threat? To do this we have to look at numbers. But you don’t want to do that for some reason. Wonder why. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-fight-ignorance-xenophobia-regarding-islam/527988/49 "2010-02-08T22:14:52Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > Stop lying. I never claimed that they are both equally a threat (since I don’t view the claim as particularly meaningful). My claim is that they are both threats and neither should get a pass. But white Christian extremists don’t get “a pass”. I’d bet that law enforcement is looking into militant Christian groups right now. Wait—maybe you should explain what you mean by “get a pass”. Also, not only am I not “lying” (and you should apologize), but calling someone a liar is not allowed in this forum. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-fight-ignorance-xenophobia-regarding-islam/527988/50 "2010-02-08T22:18:45Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > That is PRECISELY what you’re doing. You are assuming that the two groups responsible for terrorism in the U.S. are equal threats—that the degree of the threat is equal among both groups—so we should look at them both equally and not give Muslims such a hard time. But the numbers—which you want to ignore—tell us that it makes more sense to concentrate more of our efforts on Muslims than Christians. But, no, you don’t want to hear it. Fine. Believe what you want. But you should at least bring a better argument if you want to convince anyone that your opinion should be considered. Fine, argue with strawmen if you want to. > [@](#): > > To do this we have to look at numbers. But you don’t want to do that for some reason. Wonder why. Because then we should look at the period from when both the militia movements and the Christian right started to become politically active, which I would put at the early eighties. Do you want to analyze from the early eighties, or are you going to limit the analysis to mid-90s, which I don’t view as the particularly relevant start date for Christian extremism. And do I have to include overseas attacks on American interests, rather than just domestic attacks? Because then I am going to include attacks on American interests in Latin America (particularly Columbia and Peru), and there are quite a few of them. And do I include thwarted terrorist attacks (such as the WMD plot I linked to above) or do I only do that for Islamic terrorists? If I include thwarted attacks, how can I use deaths as the guage, since a thwarted attack doesn’t kill anyone? If I don’t include it, why shouldn’t I include it? And do I have to examine each and every terrorists religious identification? Because I’m not qualified to determine who or what constitutes a Christian or a Muslim, so I largely have to rely on self-identification. Nor am I familiar with every line in the Bible and the Koran, so I can’t cleanly determine whether a Christian or a Muslim was acting solely for religious motivations or non-religious motivations or some combination of the two. The reason I don’t want to play this game is that we can choose our time periods and definitions in any number of ways to pull out what constitutes the greater and lesser threat, and I’ve been through these debates before, and no matter which definition I choose, someone will come along with quibbles about No True Scotsman or some other thing. And you guys have done that in this thread by focusing solely on deaths from a very specific time period, rather than focusing on arrests or conviction rates or monetary damage or any other metric which should be additionally relevant. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-fight-ignorance-xenophobia-regarding-islam/527988/51 "2010-02-08T22:19:53Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > But white Christian extremists don’t get “a pass”. I’d bet that law enforcement is looking into militant Christian groups right now. Wait—maybe you should explain what you mean by “get a pass”. Get a pass is what you are trying to do, which is minimize the threat from Christian extremists. > [@](#): > > Also, not only am I not “lying” (and you should apologize), but calling someone a liar is not allowed in this forum. I’ll apologize to the board and acknowledge that I won’t do it again. But you are repeatedly misrepresenting my argument after multiple corrections. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-fight-ignorance-xenophobia-regarding-islam/527988/52 "2010-02-08T22:20:26Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > I didn’t equate the threat by degree. They are both threats, and neither should get a pass. ISTM that you are attempting to give Islamic terrorism a pass by pretending that it isn’t a thousand times worse than Christian terrorism. > [@](#): > > As I’ve pointed out multiple times in this thread, there is no particular reason to use this as the sole metric, and that over the entire history of the US, the death toll from Christians is much higher. Could we perhaps make up our minds here? First you claimed that compiling deaths over the entire history of the US is pointless. Now you are compiling deaths over the entire history of the US. You claimed that you were concerned about terrorism “right now”. But you keep talking about McVeigh, who wasn’t a Christian terrorist, committed his crimes fifteen years ago, and has been dead for eight years. No one is giving terrorism of any sort “a pass” (in the United States). > [@](#): > > I didn’t equate the threat by degree. Okay then - do you agree that Islamic terrorism is a much greater problem in the US right now than Christian terrorism? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-fight-ignorance-xenophobia-regarding-islam/527988/53 "2010-02-08T22:29:09Z")
> [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](#): > > - Muslims in most parts of the world tend to reproduce at an extraordinarily fast rate. This simply is not true. Muslim countries experience population growth that is more or less what one would expect given the nation’s wealth. According to the CIA World Factbook, Iran’s birth rate is quite low, just 120th in the world. Turkey’s is 100th in the world. Pakistan’s is 65th. Indonesia’s is 117th. I didn’t pick those countries by accident: those are the four most populous Islamic nations in the world. Please explain to me how Muslims are “reproducing at an extraordinary rate.” Out of the ordinary in what way? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-fight-ignorance-xenophobia-regarding-islam/527988/54 "2010-02-08T22:30:32Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > Get a pass is what you are trying to do, which is minimize the threat from Christian extremists. Let’s try this: 1. how would you apportion the threat coming from the two groups we are discussing? (50-50?) 2. what do you base your apportionment on? ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-fight-ignorance-xenophobia-regarding-islam/527988/55 "2010-02-08T22:33:02Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > ISTM that you are attempting to give Islamic terrorism a pass by pretending that it isn’t a thousand times worse than Christian terrorism. I never assigned numbers. You are the one assigning numbers and degrees. So can we please stop with this “thousands” nonsense. > [@](#): > > Could we perhaps make up our minds here? First you claimed that compiling deaths over the entire history of the US is pointless. Now you are compiling deaths over the entire history of the US. I’m bringing up to show that it’s not a sole relevant metric. > [@](#): > > You claimed that you were concerned about terrorism “right now”. But you keep talking about McVeigh, who wasn’t a Christian terrorist, committed his crimes fifteen years ago, and has been dead for eight years. I wasn’t the one who brought up McVeigh. And you brought up the original WTC bombing. How come it’s okay for you to talk about things that happened 14 years ago? > [@](#): > > No one is giving terrorism of any sort “a pass” (in the United States). > Okay then - do you agree that Islamic terrorism is a much greater problem in the US right now than Christian terrorism? Again, this depends on how you want to define threat. For some reason, you are only focused on deaths, and deaths do not constitute the entire metric of this measurement. But I’ll tell you what. It might make an interesting research project, although it will probably take me a week or so to compile the data. Here’s what I propose: We compile the following data from the period 1990 onwards: 1. Deaths 2. Arrests 3. Convictions 4. Direct monetary damage (I’m not going to be able to compile indirect damage) I’m going to limit attacks to domestic US territory (including US territories, such as Puerto Rico). I’m not going to include attacks on US overseas installations such as embassies or military bases. I’m going to include any attacks or arrests that were tied to an attempt to do damage for political or religious reasons (which means I’m going to include stuff like Ruby Ridge and Waco), and I will only differentiate based on religion of upbringing or self-identification, since I’m not qualified to determine who or what is a Christian or a Muslim or whether or not such motivation is religious or not. Do you agree to these defintions? My guess is that direct monetary damage will come out with Muslim extremists ahead (since the WTC collapse caused an immense amount of damage, so I’ll concede that here). My guess is that arrests and convictions are going to be non-determinative, and that deaths could go either way. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-fight-ignorance-xenophobia-regarding-islam/527988/56 "2010-02-08T22:34:15Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Let’s try this: > > 1. how would you apportion the threat coming from the two groups we are discussing? (50-50?) > > 2. what do you base your apportionment on? I don’t know, which is why it should be researched. However, Shodan’s “thousands of times” estimate strikes me as highly unreasonable. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-fight-ignorance-xenophobia-regarding-islam/527988/57 "2010-02-08T22:40:31Z")
ETA: Thousands of times strikes me as unreasonable unless you are solely focused on direct economic damage, but then neither of you brought it up and are focused solely on deaths. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-fight-ignorance-xenophobia-regarding-islam/527988/58 "2010-02-08T23:04:20Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > Here’s what I propose: > > We compile the following data from the period 1990 onwards: > > 1. Deaths > 2. Arrests > 3. Convictions > 4. Direct monetary damage (I’m not going to be able to compile indirect damage) > > I’m going to limit attacks to domestic US territory (including US territories, such as Puerto Rico). I’m not going to include attacks on US overseas installations such as embassies or military bases. > > I’m going to include any attacks or arrests that were tied to an attempt to do damage for political or religious reasons (which means I’m going to include stuff like Ruby Ridge and Waco), and I will only differentiate based on religion of upbringing or self-identification, since I’m not qualified to determine who or what is a Christian or a Muslim or whether or not such motivation is religious or not. If you cannot determine what someone’s motive is for committing terrorism, how are you going to determine what is Christian terrorism and what is Islamic terrorism? > [@](#): > > Do you agree to these defintions? My guess is that direct monetary damage will come out with Muslim extremists ahead (since the WTC collapse caused an immense amount of damage, so I’ll concede that here). My guess is that arrests and convictions are going to be non-determinative, and that deaths could go either way. I wouldn’t bother. Given your difficulty in understanding that McVeigh was not a Christian terrorist and that 3,042 vs. 3 “could go either way”, I suspect you have some definition in mind that nobody else will buy. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-fight-ignorance-xenophobia-regarding-islam/527988/59 "2010-02-08T23:11:37Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > If you cannot determine what someone’s motive is for committing terrorism, how are you going to determine what is Christian terrorism and what is Islamic terrorism? You seem to have no problem assigning religious motivations when it suits you (and given that you have so little understanding of Islamic history that you are unable to identify secular movements in them, I wonder where you get off asserting what constitutes Islamic terrorism. > [@](#): > > I wouldn’t bother. Given your difficulty in understanding that McVeigh was not a Christian terrorist and that 3,042 vs. 3 “could go either way”, I suspect you have some definition in mind that nobody else will buy. > > Regards, > Shodan Right. You get to apply one definition of religious extremist to McVeigh and another to Muslims. You get to ignore something that happened 15 years ago, while citing something that happened 14. And you get to claim the number “3” simply by ignoring all sorts of other domestic terrorism. But thanks for amply proving my point about how you aren’t interested in determining what the actual threat to the US is. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-fight-ignorance-xenophobia-regarding-islam/527988/60 "2010-02-08T23:51:32Z")
**magellan01** , are you okay with the research project, or do you want to alter the definitions? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-fight-ignorance-xenophobia-regarding-islam/527988.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-fight-ignorance-xenophobia-regarding-islam/527988.md?page=4)