# Help me find a fantasy novel like this... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 26, 2011, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-a-fantasy-novel-like-this/600898 "2011-10-26T20:00:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-a-fantasy-novel-like-this/600898/41 "2011-10-28T20:10:13Z")
I have a fondness for _Azure Bonds_, although the “sequels” were pretty meh. I found Drizz’t tiresome before the original trilogy was over. Besides, the elvish exile, the gruff (heart of gold) dwarf who understands him like no one else, the ridiculously strong good-hearted if naive warrior, his feisty blushing warrior-maid girlfriend, the tiny thief comic relief… they just needed an anemic wizard with bad skin to hit the Dragonlance core group. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-a-fantasy-novel-like-this/600898/42 "2011-10-28T20:11:29Z")
Salvatore is as least moderately good at describing fight scenes, from what I vaguely recall. Greenwood mostly just wants to describe Elminster boinking every female wizard on Faerûn, _and_ threw in that “used to be a woman so he _understands_ women” crap. ptui. Read some of Paul Kidd’s D&D books, instead. They’re chock-full of every groanworthy D&D trope you can think of, but they’re _fun_. Unlike Mssrs. Salvatore’s & Greenwood’s dreck. They are utterly opposite to what the OP is looking for, of course. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-a-fantasy-novel-like-this/600898/43 "2011-10-28T20:23:17Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > It’s less that Salvatore thought him up and more that everyone wants to copy him. Indeed. IMO, at least it’s not quite as bad as it was a few years ago (when the Drizzt novels were regularly hitting the NYT Bestseller lists). Back then, you’d go to an RPGA\* convention, and it seemed like at least 50% of the under-21\*\* players were playing emo tragic-hero drow rangers with twin scimitars. - - Role Playing Gamers Association, an arm of Wizards of the Coast, which sponsors D&D games at gaming conventions. \*\* - and a fair number of the over-21 players, too. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-a-fantasy-novel-like-this/600898/44 "2011-10-28T20:30:25Z")
It didn’t help that Baldur’s Gate (II?) had a cameo from Driz’zt and an unlockable Driz’zt character you could play. ---
**Author:** ![DeptfordX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DeptfordX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeptfordX)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-a-fantasy-novel-like-this/600898/45 "2011-10-28T22:25:04Z")
I once played a game where my character was a complete Driz’zt rip-off. Except (as only the DM knew) he was actually a chaotic evil infiltrator who was trying to destroy the rest of the party. “Oh no, i fumbled the healing check to stabilise him and now he’s dead” Took 'em 3 sessions to catch on. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-a-fantasy-novel-like-this/600898/46 "2011-10-28T22:37:05Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > It didn’t help that Baldur’s Gate (II?) had a cameo from Driz’zt and an unlockable Driz’zt character you could play. The PC game [Baldur’s Gate II: Shadows of Amn/Throne of Bhaal](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldur%27s_Gate_II:_Shadows_of_Amn) had you meet Driz’zt\*. [Baldur’s Gate: Dark Alliance](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldur%27s_Gate:_Dark_Alliance) the console game had an unlockable Driz’zt character. \*Amusingly, people came up with various ways to kill him and his group and steal their stuff ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-a-fantasy-novel-like-this/600898/47 "2011-10-28T23:29:48Z")
You meet Drizzle, and can (with difficulty) kill him and steal his stuff, in Baldur’s Gate I, and there’s a completely unrelated drow exile you can recruit into your party, but you can’t play Drizzle himself. I don’t know about any of the others. Back to the OP, though, are we restricting ourselves to novels? Because the webcomic Erfworld would be a good fit for what you’re looking for. Unfortunately the archives are abysmal, so I don’t know if there’s a good way to read them through from the start. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-a-fantasy-novel-like-this/600898/48 "2011-10-29T00:12:32Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > I’m a gamer, and I’ve always hated Salvatore’s and Greenwood’s books. While the concepts might be great for gaming, neither guy is very good at writing. IOW, the books succeed at presenting concepts, but fail as stories. Salvatore, in particular, needs to be strung up by his toes and beaten with nail studded rubber hoses for thinking up Dri-wossname. [http://www.goblinscomic.com/07102005/](http://www.goblinscomic.com/07102005/)[Goblins -](http://www.goblinscomic.com/07112005/) > > Kender, on the other hand, are a pretty decent story concept…but a lousy game concept. At least, lousy if they are allowed as a PC race. Spoilsport. Just for that, I’ll tell you that I also enjoyed the “Gord of Greyhawk” series by E. Gary Gygax. So there. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-a-fantasy-novel-like-this/600898/49 "2011-10-29T00:13:09Z")
A hearty second for both the _Doomfarer_ series by Brian Daley (Dragons, evil wizards, and Armored Personell Carriers assaulting Hell), and the _Black Company_ series by Glen Cook. Only one dragon that I can recall from Cook’s series, but he does have flying whales, talking rocks, a God in the form of a tree, major bad-ass (and occasionally undead) wizards, and a serious “changing of the guard” epic tale if you go though the entire series. Also check out the bridge/stand alone novel _The Silver Spike_. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-a-fantasy-novel-like-this/600898/50 "2011-10-29T01:38:31Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Spoilsport. > > Just for that, I’ll tell you that I also enjoyed the “Gord of Greyhawk” series by E. Gary Gygax. So there. Gah. My stomach is upset already, and then you have to post THIS? I don’t think I want to remember those stories. I know I don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-a-fantasy-novel-like-this/600898/51 "2011-10-29T02:35:51Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Just for that, I’ll tell you that I also enjoyed the “Gord of Greyhawk” series by E. Gary Gygax. So there. … I’m gonna let that go. For now. But had you mentioned you enjoyed Rose Estes books\*… well, we’d be getting out the rope and eying a nice place to hang it from, yessir. \*spoilered 'cause **Lynn** ’s stomach surely couldn’t take _that_ sort or recollection. ---
**Author:** ![DeptfordX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DeptfordX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeptfordX)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-a-fantasy-novel-like-this/600898/52 "2011-10-29T10:31:02Z")
Man i loved those Gord books. Especially the last couple with all the battles and action in the Abyss. They may not have been great writing but they were really fun. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-a-fantasy-novel-like-this/600898/53 "2011-10-29T11:51:07Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > . [http://www.goblinscomic.com/07102005/](http://www.goblinscomic.com/07102005/)[Goblins -](http://www.goblinscomic.com/07112005/) [Another take on the issue](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0044.html). ---
**Author:** ![Kennedy1960](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ccd318/32.png) [@Kennedy1960](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kennedy1960)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-a-fantasy-novel-like-this/600898/54 "2018-07-04T19:46:26Z")
Anything like what the OP asks for, but also with really scary segments with zombies? 🙂 The flesh eating D&D kind, not the Romero kind. But including everything the OP said. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-a-fantasy-novel-like-this/600898/55 "2018-07-04T21:21:40Z")
> [@Kennedy1960](#): > > Anything like what the OP asks for, but also with really scary segments with zombies? 🙂 The flesh eating D&D kind, not the Romero kind. But including everything the OP said. The Broken Empire trilogy, by Mark Lawrence, is what you’re looking for. It has zombies all right, as well as necromancers, mutants, fireball-throwing wizards and virtually every other horror known to man, presided over by its protagonist, a brilliant, brutal, broken teenager who is, to me, one of the most compelling characters on famtasy history. God I love these books. And the follow-up series is almost as good. Be warned, though, that they really are brutal, especially at first. If you get through the first 50 pages you’ll get theougb the series. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-a-fantasy-novel-like-this/600898/56 "2018-07-04T23:54:07Z")
> [@Kennedy1960](#): > > Anything like what the OP asks for, but also with really scary segments with zombies? Okay, yer messin with us, right? That said, a couple of recommendations, if anyone’s still interested in the topic: [The Blade Itself](https://www.amazon.com/Blade-Itself-First-Law-Trilogy/dp/0316387312) is a series with very clear wizards and barbarians and such in it. It doesn’t have all the D&D elements, but there’s plenty of high fantasy. And holy fuck is it grim ‘n’ gritty. One of the most sympathetic characters in the series is a royal torturer, whose torturing of innocents is described in nearly pornographic detail. The author, Abercrombie, appears to be fed up with a lot of fantasy tropes and is satirizing them, but his satire is committed with flensing knives. [Perdido Street Station](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/68494.Perdido_Street_Station) is high fantasy but no elves, but has a fair amount of nods to fantasy settings, including my all-time favorite stealth description of a typical D&D party: > [@Perdido Street Station](#): > > There were three of them. They were immediately and absolutely recognizable as adventurers; rogues who wandered the Ragamoll and the Cymek and Fellid and probably the whole of Bas-Lag. They were hardy and dangerous, lawless, stribbed of allegiance or morality, living off their wits, stealing and killing, hiring themselves out to whoever and whatever came. They were inspired by dubious virtues. A few performed useful services: research, cartography, and the like. Most were nothing but tomb raiders. They were scum who died violent deaths, hanging on to a certain cachet among the impressionable through their undeniable bravery and their occasionally impressive exploits. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-a-fantasy-novel-like-this/600898/57 "2018-07-05T01:19:51Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > You may enjoy the _Codex Alera_ series by Jim Butcher (of _ **Dresden Files** _ fame). He self-conciously set out to incorporate pretty well every possible fantasy trope together in a quite serious fantasy series, and it is very good. 😃 Um… speaking of which… _The Dresden Files_ match the criteria, except for the whole “not set in Chicago” part, which you didn’t specify, but everybody seems to be comfortable assuming it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-a-fantasy-novel-like-this/600898/58 "2018-07-05T02:16:24Z")
They’re probably out of print, but I would recommend Poul Anderson’s _The Broken Sword and Three Hearts and Three Lions._ ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-a-fantasy-novel-like-this/600898/59 "2018-07-05T18:34:38Z")
Gardner Fox wrote quite a bit of fantasy. “Kothar: Barbarian Swordsman” and “Kyric: Warlock Warrior” were probably the best-known, but there are a lot of stories out there (if you can find them). The stuff I have read owes more to Robert E Howard than to Tolkien, but he wrote some stories for _Dragon_ magazine that had elves in them. Probably not grim-and-gritty enough for the OP, but for the time period, he could be fairly racy. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-a-fantasy-novel-like-this/600898/60 "2018-07-05T19:22:49Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Um… speaking of which… _The Dresden Files_ match the criteria, except for the whole “not set in Chicago” part, which you didn’t specify, but everybody seems to be comfortable assuming it. Given that the very old request was for a grim ‘n’ gritty version, I gotta think you read a different Dresden Files than I read :). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-a-fantasy-novel-like-this/600898.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-a-fantasy-novel-like-this/600898.md?page=4)