# Help me find library of congress call numbers **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 20, 2005, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-library-of-congress-call-numbers/336530 "2005-12-20T23:02:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-library-of-congress-call-numbers/336530/1 "2005-12-20T23:02:05Z")
I’m setting up a database for work that will classify our small-but-growing collection of books, magazines, videos, etc. used for humane education. I decided to use the Library of Congress call number system, on the theory that it’d be easy to find each book’s call number, right on the copyright page. Man, I was wrong. For a lot of our books the number’s right there, but for others, they’re published in England, or they’re little crappy booklets made by small operations, or they’re fifty years old, or for a variety of other reason the call number isn’t there. For some of them, I can go to Amazon, find a newer edition of the book, search inside for the copyright page, and find the call number. For others, even that’s not working. Is there a place where I can type in a title and get the LoC call number returned to me? Failing that, is there a place where I can get some strong guidance on assigning my own more-or-less-accurate LoC Call Number? I’d like to have info on the second question especially before I start in on the videos… Daniel ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-library-of-congress-call-numbers/336530/2 "2005-12-20T23:27:10Z")
Here is the [Library of Congress Basic Search](http://catalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?DB=local&PAGE=First) page. It’s pretty groovy. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-library-of-congress-call-numbers/336530/3 "2005-12-20T23:41:19Z")
That’s **exactly** what I need–you’re the best! Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2005, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-library-of-congress-call-numbers/336530/4 "2005-12-27T14:12:16Z")
Okay, as a follow-up question: the first time I use the link, I get no results (for “The Cairn Terrier Handbook”, a 1957 book published in England). Is there a handy guide somewhere for assigning a LoC number? I can make guesses based on the LoC numbers of similar books, but I figure that I’ll probably run across some books for which that’ll fail. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2005, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-library-of-congress-call-numbers/336530/5 "2005-12-27T20:28:39Z")
Let’s see if the search links last: [Uncle Sham](http://catalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?Search_Arg=UNCLE+SHAM&Search_Code=TALL&PID=26488&SEQ=20051227152539&CNT=25&HIST=1) ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2005, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-library-of-congress-call-numbers/336530/6 "2005-12-27T20:51:40Z")
Nope. The links time out after about 15 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Lsura](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@Lsura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lsura)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2005, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-library-of-congress-call-numbers/336530/7 "2005-12-27T21:17:05Z")
I tried to post this earlier, but the boards were on their way down, so here’s what I’ve got. **SF 429 .C3** But I got this using WorldCat - the subscription version, not OpenWorldCat. You could try a consortium catalog, like [OhioLink](http://www.ohiolink.edu) or other university catalogs. If you don’t have a lot of books that are not in the LOC catalog, searching libraries that use the LOC system may get you what you need - typically these are university libraries. I’ll do some thinking and see if I come up with another idea, but this is the first one that popped to mind. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2005, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-library-of-congress-call-numbers/336530/8 "2005-12-27T21:48:10Z")
There is, of course, a series of books that tell you how to assign numbers. (I did a lot of original cataloging in an art library last year - there’s a lot of adding numbers together, and then you hit the Cutter tables, etc.) If you have a lot of materials, and they’re all in the same area (like art) and therefore in the same numbers, you can certainly purchase the book at least for that area. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2005, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-library-of-congress-call-numbers/336530/9 "2005-12-27T22:00:40Z")
Using university libraries is a great idea–thanks! What I may end up doing–what I’ve been doing so far–is searching by subject area, finding a book that looks similar, and adapting its number. As I understand it, the number breaks down like this: SF429=general classification. .C3=subclassification, the letter determined by the subcategory (in this case, C for Cairn) and the number by some process with which I’m unaware. If I can’t figure out this part (maybe I’m classifying a book on Labradoodles, a subject I can’t find in LoC), I’ll assign it as .L01, with the superfluous 0 as a signal to myself to double-check this at some point. C27=hint as to author’s last name: the C stands for Caspersz in the case of _The Cairn Terrier Handbook_, and I’m guessing that the 27 is, I dunno, chronologically sequential within the subcategory and last name letter? That is, if Joe Callie writes a book on Cairn Terriers tomorrow, it’d be C28, even though Callie comes before Caspersz alphabetically. If I’m assigning a number, I’ll start with .C01, again to remind myself to double-check it. Do I have the basics down of how these numbers are assigned? I’m finding that about half of our books don’t have LoC information: a lot of them appear to be published by a single small press that specializes in animal breeds and doesn’t believe in the LoC. Thanks, y’all, for your help with this! Daniel ---
**Author:** ![spingears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@spingears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spingears)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2005, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-library-of-congress-call-numbers/336530/10 "2005-12-27T22:47:06Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > I’m setting up a database for work that will classify our small-but-growing collection of books, magazines, videos, etc. used for humane education. I decided to use the Library of Congress call number system, on the theory that it’d be easy to find each book’s call number, right on the copyright page. WAG Ask a professional librarian for suggestion as to which system of book cataloging is nearly universal. Reinventing the wheel is a very unrewarding endeavor! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2005, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-library-of-congress-call-numbers/336530/11 "2005-12-27T22:51:38Z")
> [@spingears](#): > > WAG Ask a professional librarian for suggestion as to which system of book cataloging is nearly universal. > Reinventing the wheel is a very unrewarding endeavor! 😉 Hmm…I’m not sure I follow you. Isn’t LoC as close to universal as you can get here in the states? I mean, there’s ISBN, but those numbers aren’t sorted by subject, and not all of our books even have ISBNs. I’m not reinventing the wheel; I’m hoping to use a certain wheel for our application. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Fountain\_of\_Utes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b77776/32.png) [@Fountain\_of\_Utes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fountain_of_Utes)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-library-of-congress-call-numbers/336530/12 "2005-12-28T07:16:30Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Hmm…I’m not sure I follow you. Isn’t LoC as close to universal as you can get here in the states? I mean, there’s ISBN, but those numbers aren’t sorted by subject, and not all of our books even have ISBNs. > > I’m not reinventing the wheel; I’m hoping to use a certain wheel for our application. > > Daniel Well, there’s the Dewey Decimal system, which is used by most public and school libraries in the US, and by the libraries of many smaller colleges as well. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-library-of-congress-call-numbers/336530/13 "2005-12-28T13:13:44Z")
I have my entire collection shelved according to Library of Congress classification. I got a method down for locating the class number. Library of Congress class numbers are keyed to the subject headings. The first thing before you can start classifying is to nail down the LC subject heading. In print, _Library of Congress Subject Headings_ come in 4 huge hefty red volumes, careful you don’t pull a muscle in your back handling them. You can also find LC subject heading information online in the database [http://catalog.loc.gov/](http://catalog.loc.gov/) with some cross-references to wider and narrow subjects. So here’s what I do when the LC database lacks a record on a particular title: I figure it out myself. I live near DC, so I used to go to the Library of Congress Main Reading Room reference public collection, where they have the complete tables of LC class numbers, and simply look it up. But if I don’t feel like leaving the house, I just figure out the subject heading for the item (maybe by looking up the most similar items I can think of and comparing subject headings). Then I look around and find what class numbers go with a given subject heading. Often there’s more than one and you have to choose the best fit. Sometimes it’s more complex and you have to construct your own class number. It isn’t always just handed to you in the tables. I supply my own Cutters as needed. Just remember that in the LC system you can have 2 Cutters in one call number: the first one for a class subdivision, and the second one for author or title. _There is only one dot before a Cutter in each call number_. So only the first Cutter gets the dot in front of it. The second Cutter has to go without a dot. There’s a reason why catalogers have to have a two-year Master’s degree in Library Science. It can get very intricate. To know where to class a book, often I had to look up biographical information on the author. You just have to have a huge amounts of resources at your disposal to be able to do it right. Please reference the industry standard, _ALA/LC Classification Rules_, 2nd ed., known affectionately in the profession as AACR2. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-library-of-congress-call-numbers/336530/14 "2005-12-28T14:37:34Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > C27=hint as to author’s last name: the C stands for Caspersz in the case of _The Cairn Terrier Handbook_, and I’m guessing that the 27 is, I dunno, chronologically sequential within the subcategory and last name letter? That is, if Joe Callie writes a book on Cairn Terriers tomorrow, it’d be C28, even though Callie comes before Caspersz alphabetically. If I’m assigning a number, I’ll start with .C01, again to remind myself to double-check it. > > l That’s the Cutter number. The idea is that everything within the number should be in alphabetical order, so you generate these Cutter numbers to insure that. We used to have to use tables, but there’s a bunch of different generators online - here’s one. [http://www.geocities.com/freepublish/cutternumber.htm](http://www.geocities.com/freepublish/cutternumber.htm) While many small libraries use Dewey, almost all academic libraries use LC, and I at least think it’s far superior. My home library is LC. Of course they both have their major flaws, etc. (I’d like to see somebody do a whole library by the Colon scheme, personally, just for kicks.) ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2005, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-library-of-congress-call-numbers/336530/15 "2005-12-29T02:53:10Z")
Cutter numbers go according to alphabetical order, not chronological. The last part of an LC call number is usually the publication date. It goes after the Cutter numbers. There is a system for assigning Cutters within a class number, and if the Cutters are going into it for the first time, the catalogers will follow the system. But the Cutter system was designed with enough flexibility to always squeeze in a number for the exact alphabetical order. If the number you were going to assign is already taken, you can extend the decimals as far to the right as needed to squeeze it in just above or just below the other one, depending on alphabetical order. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-library-of-congress-call-numbers/336530/16 "2005-12-30T22:09:07Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Cutter numbers go according to alphabetical order, not chronological. The last part of an LC call number is usually the publication date. It goes after the Cutter numbers. > > There is a system for assigning Cutters within a class number, and if the Cutters are going into it for the first time, the catalogers will follow the system. But the Cutter system was designed with enough flexibility to always squeeze in a number for the exact alphabetical order. If the number you were going to assign is already taken, you can extend the decimals as far to the right as needed to squeeze it in just above or just below the other one, depending on alphabetical order. That makes a lot of sense. I’ll take a look at **Zsofia’s** link to a cutter number generator on Monday. Thanks so much for the help! Daniel