# Help me find some historical role models for my daughters. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 19, 2008, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-some-historical-role-models-for-my-daughters/464284 "2008-09-19T09:00:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-some-historical-role-models-for-my-daughters/464284/21 "2008-09-19T14:00:51Z")
I cast my vote for Rear Admiral Grace Hopper: [QUOTE=wikipedia] Rear Admiral Grace Murray Hopper (December 9, 1906 – January 1, 1992) was an American computer scientist and United States Naval officer. A pioneer in the field, she was one of the first programmers of the Harvard Mark I calculator, and she developed the first compiler for a computer programming language.[1] Because of the breadth of her accomplishments and her naval rank, she is sometimes referred to as “Amazing Grace”. [/QUOTE] Not only that but apparently she helped popularize the term “bug” for software: [QUOTE=wikipedia] While she was working on a Mark II Computer at Harvard University, her associates discovered a moth stuck in a relay and thereby impeding operation, whereupon she remarked that they were “debugging” the system. Though the term computer bug cannot be definitively attributed to Admiral Hopper, she did bring the term into popularity.[6] The remains of the moth can be found in the group’s log book at the Smithsonian Institution’s National Museum of American History in Washington, D.C.[7] [/QUOTE] 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-some-historical-role-models-for-my-daughters/464284/22 "2008-09-19T14:06:25Z")
How about [Emily Pankhurst](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emily_Pankhurst), or [Kate Sheppard](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kate_Sheppard), the suffragettes? ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-some-historical-role-models-for-my-daughters/464284/23 "2008-09-19T14:17:44Z")
You already listed the Soong sisters, who all were a bit dodgy. Empress Dowager Ci Xi, mother of the last emperor was one tough cookie. historicallly Wu Zetian was as nasty a piece of work as a woman succeeding in a man’s world as you can get. ---
**Author:** ![YoudNeverGuess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a587f6/32.png) [@YoudNeverGuess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YoudNeverGuess)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-some-historical-role-models-for-my-daughters/464284/24 "2008-09-19T14:28:37Z")
I kind of agree with **astorian**. In reality (and I count myself as a feminist) what is so wrong with aspiring to marriage/ love or motherhood - both can be very important and fulfilling parts of life. The majority of people, both men and women, would say that family life and relationships are far more important to them when it comes down to it than some job. That said though, there is no harm either in searching for strong female role-models in history. Many good ones have been mentioned here though I wouldn’t choose someone as a role model just _because_ they are female but because of their actions. There’s no reason why a man should not be a good role model for a young girl either e.g. Gandhi or Thomas More for instance. I second Rosa Parks as a great example. For other possibilities I’d throw in the Bronte sisters. Their books are very modern for their time and have generally very rounded, strong female characters. There’s also a colourful figure in Granuaile - a sort of Irish noblewoman pirate contemporary of Elizabeth I. Whether she’s all that likeable is debatable (as it is with so many other examples above as well) but she was certainly strong and confident and a leader and commander of men, a large property owner, businesswoman and ruler of her territory. More info here: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace\_O’Malley](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_O'Malley) ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-some-historical-role-models-for-my-daughters/464284/25 "2008-09-19T14:32:53Z")
> [@Sigmagirl](#): > > [Ada Lovelace](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_Lovelace)! The first computer programmer. Hehe, I’m just imagine the shock that occurs when a google search turns up the wrong Lovelace. ---
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-some-historical-role-models-for-my-daughters/464284/26 "2008-09-19T14:36:26Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Still, I’m inclined to think feminist parents should lighten up. Ask a female doctor. lawyer or scientist, and more often than not, you’ll find they played mostly with Barbie and My Little Pony. \ But if you try to tell your daughter, “No Barbies in this house- here, read this book about Barbara McClintock,” she’s going to think you’re unreasonable and crazy. With all due respect, **Dave** didn’t say “no Barbies in this house”, he asked for opinions on positive role models. I won’t get into a protracted discussion about it here in GQ, since it’s not the place for it. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mississippienne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d2c977/32.png) [@Mississippienne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mississippienne)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-some-historical-role-models-for-my-daughters/464284/27 "2008-09-19T14:36:47Z")
Well, the problem with historical role models is that a lot of those women came to bad ends (poisoned, burned at the stake, suicide) or they had to do a lot of dodgy things to stay on top, including but not limited to, murdering their husbands/children, waging war, oppressing peasants and Jews, etc. Eleanor of Aquitaine was hardly a fairy-tale princess; she was accused of having an affair with her uncle, divorced her first husband and married a man nine years younger than her, then incited their sons to rebellion against their father and got locked up for several years. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-some-historical-role-models-for-my-daughters/464284/28 "2008-09-19T14:51:00Z")
On the Disney princess side, I’m not fond of Ariel, and the older Princesses are very 50s - but Belle is well read, runs off to save her father. Mulan beats the Huns and is a war hero. Pocohantas brings peace. Giselle in Enchanted starts a maiden needing to be saved, becomes a New York businesswoman. That these women also find love along the way should be empowering. I think with Disney movies you have to point out when the princesses are being smart and when they are being stupid. But real life women: Note that you don’t get far in politics without being fairly cutthroat, and historical princesses we have record of played politics. If you want historical women who were saints, you probably want to pick up a book of - well - Saints. I’ve always been fond of Eleanor of Aquitaine, though we don’t know that much about her. We know less about her grandmother, Dangerosa, but what we do know is interesting (though not appropriate for a child). Catherine de Medici was an interesting person. Queen Victoria - who is probably as close to a female ruling Saint as you can get - though she was rather … Victorian. Other women: Nellie Bly was a female journalist of fame Helen Keller inspires a lot of young girls - since a lot of the stories about Helen and Anne take place when Helen is young, girls identify easily with Helen Keller. Golda Meier has a really interesting story ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-some-historical-role-models-for-my-daughters/464284/29 "2008-09-19T15:14:35Z")
> [@Mississippienne](#): > > Eleanor of Aquitaine was hardly a fairy-tale princess; she was accused of having an affair with her uncle, divorced her first husband and married a man nine years younger than her, then incited their sons to rebellion against their father and got locked up for several years. So what’s not to like as a role model for your daughter:D ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-some-historical-role-models-for-my-daughters/464284/30 "2008-09-19T15:15:36Z")
How about some explorers? [Mary Kingsley](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Kingsley) and [Ida Laura Pfeiffer](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ida_Laura_Pfeiffer) come to mind. [Lady Hester Stanhope](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Hester_Stanhope) got pretty weird, but she’s got a damned interesting story. Of course women like to have sex, which means if they aren’t married, they are probably having liaisons and affairs. I think there is either going to be husbands or scandal in most strong women’s stories. ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-some-historical-role-models-for-my-daughters/464284/31 "2008-09-19T15:39:18Z")
Sacagawea is a huge personal heroine of mine. She led Lewis and Clark (a dozens of others) through thousands of miles of unmarked and dangerous wilderness. With a 2 month old baby on her back! She was awesome! ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-some-historical-role-models-for-my-daughters/464284/32 "2008-09-19T15:56:39Z")
Couple thoughts. My daughter is in the throes of princess worship - she’s 5, so this is natural, I suppose. We use this to our advantage. Since princesses have correct and proper manners and behavior, we remind her often that a princess wouldn’t do _that_. Also, while it is natural to want heroes that look like us, it is also a bit limiting. Why not expand her horizons? If there is no reason why Margaret Thatcher can’t be one of my heroes (and yes, I am a bit conservative, thanks) there’s no reason why Lincoln or FDR or Mean Joe Greene can’t be among my daughter’s heroes. We are grooming her to be a Steelers fan, so this would be natural. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-some-historical-role-models-for-my-daughters/464284/33 "2008-09-19T16:00:00Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > . . . there’s no reason why . . .Mean Joe Greene can’t be among my daughter’s heroes. Because the bastard keeps taking my Coca-Cola. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-some-historical-role-models-for-my-daughters/464284/34 "2008-09-19T16:28:27Z")
[Clara Schumann](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clara_Schumann). Married the love of her life after a battle with her father. Forged an international career, fighting against 19th century prejudices. Utterly devoted mother of a large family. Spent much of her performing years championing her husband’s work, especially after his death. Lived to a ripe old age. And, most importantly, composer of [beautiful music](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5mkYofWbXc) herself, which was completely overlooked at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-some-historical-role-models-for-my-daughters/464284/35 "2008-09-19T16:30:42Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Because the bastard keeps taking my Coca-Cola. You said he could take it. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-some-historical-role-models-for-my-daughters/464284/36 "2008-09-19T16:38:10Z")
In the spirit of the day, may I recommend [Anne Bonny and Mary Read](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Bonny), scurvy dogs of pirates they were! Yarrrr! 😃 And Eleanor of Aquitaine and Elizabeth I are two of my personal heroines. They played the games they had to in order to make it in a man’s world and they won by any standard of winning. They ruled large and powerful countries in their own right and did a damned fine job of it. So they weren’t perfect fairy tale princesses–isn’t that precisely the point? ---
**Author:** ![criminey.jicket](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@criminey.jicket](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/criminey.jicket)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-some-historical-role-models-for-my-daughters/464284/37 "2008-09-19T17:04:34Z")
How about some more modern leadership types with ‘firsts’? [Maiden Voyage](http://www.seafaring.com/store/product.php?productid=168) by Tania Aebi - an 18-year-old girl from New York City became the first American woman and the youngest person to sail alone around the world. [From Alice to Ocean: Alone Across the Outback](http://www.amazon.com/Alice-Ocean-Alone-Across-Outback/dp/0201632160)by Robyn Davidson - an account of her six-month, 1700 mile solo camel trek across the Australian Outback. [Margaret Bourke-White](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Bourke-White) is a woman I admire very much. Jane Goodall, of course. [Ellen MacArthur](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellen_MacArthur) started solo sailing very young; is the youngest person ever to receive a knighthood; and has created a foundation to take kids sailing during their recovery from cancer and other serious illnesses. ---
**Author:** ![Mississippienne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d2c977/32.png) [@Mississippienne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mississippienne)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-some-historical-role-models-for-my-daughters/464284/38 "2008-09-19T17:27:06Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > And Eleanor of Aquitaine and Elizabeth I are two of my personal heroines. They played the games they had to in order to make it in a man’s world and they won by any standard of winning. They ruled large and powerful countries in their own right and did a damned fine job of it. So they weren’t perfect fairy tale princesses–isn’t that precisely the point? Elizabeth I will grant you, but Eleanor didn’t rule any country in her own right. She was duchess of Aquitaine, but for her entire adult life, except for a brief period between her first and second marriages, it was controlled by her husbands, and then her sons. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-some-historical-role-models-for-my-daughters/464284/39 "2008-09-19T17:31:00Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > You said he could take it. Yeah, but I didn’t expect him to chug the whole thing! Or throw his dirty towel at me afterwards. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-some-historical-role-models-for-my-daughters/464284/40 "2008-09-19T17:35:30Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Helen Keller inspires a lot of young girls - since a lot of the stories about Helen and Anne take place when Helen is young, girls identify easily with Helen Keller. Focus on [Anne Sullivan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Sullivan)too. Helen wouldn’t have gotten as far as she did without Anne, and Anne had a horrible childhood. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-some-historical-role-models-for-my-daughters/464284.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-some-historical-role-models-for-my-daughters/464284.md?page=3)