# Help me find this book: Germany wins WWII **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 21, 2008, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-this-book-germany-wins-wwii/453690 "2008-06-21T15:28:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2008, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-this-book-germany-wins-wwii/453690/1 "2008-06-21T15:28:01Z")
There’s a book I’m looking for; trouble is, I don’t know what it’s called or who it’s by. I’m sure it’s by a famous popular author, and it’s about what would have happened (in the UK, I think) if the Germany had won the second world war. Can anyone help? ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2008, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-this-book-germany-wins-wwii/453690/2 "2008-06-21T15:29:58Z")
Ss:gb ---
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2008, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-this-book-germany-wins-wwii/453690/3 "2008-06-21T15:31:31Z")
[QUOTE=Paul in Saudi] Ss:gb [/QUOTE] Huh? 😕 Edit: I’ve just Amazoned it. By Len Deighton. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![chicken\_wire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a88e4f/32.png) [@chicken\_wire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chicken_wire)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2008, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-this-book-germany-wins-wwii/453690/4 "2008-06-21T15:34:50Z")
_Fatherland_ by Robert Harris is based in Germany in 1964 with the premise that the Germans won WWII. Could that be it? Good book, 'tis. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2008, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-this-book-germany-wins-wwii/453690/5 "2008-06-21T15:36:36Z")
Actually, looking more closely at Amazon, it also shows Fatherland by Robert Harris: that’s the one I was thinking of. Edit (again): **chicken wire?** - you posted while I was composing! ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2008, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-this-book-germany-wins-wwii/453690/6 "2008-06-21T15:51:57Z")
[QUOTE=NineToTheSky] Huh? 😕 Edit: I’ve just Amazoned it. By Len Deighton. Thank you. [/QUOTE] You’re welcome. Sorry for the short post. I was doing two things at once. ---
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2008, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-this-book-germany-wins-wwii/453690/7 "2008-06-21T15:54:24Z")
[QUOTE=Paul in Saudi] You’re welcome. Sorry for the short post. I was doing two things at once. [/QUOTE] Recently, I just about managed one thing at once. I’m building up to two. ---
**Author:** ![Savannah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Savannah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Savannah)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2008, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-this-book-germany-wins-wwii/453690/8 "2008-06-21T16:32:06Z")
I’m concurring with **Fatherland** by Richard Harris. it was good. ---
**Author:** ![Randy\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ee7513/32.png) [@Randy\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randy_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2008, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-this-book-germany-wins-wwii/453690/9 "2008-06-21T17:34:14Z")
There’s also _The Man in the High Castle_ by Phillip K. Dick. Far fetched version of the USA in the '60s after Japan and Germany split it up. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2008, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-this-book-germany-wins-wwii/453690/10 "2008-06-21T23:37:23Z")
Germany winning World War II is one of the staples of alternate history writers – likely second only to a CSA victory in the Civil War. In addition to the aforementioned \*Fatherland \*and _The Man in the High Castle,_ the _What If_ books look at various scenarios such as Hitler invading the Middle East instead of the USSR. Interestingly, Newt Gingrich wrote an alternate history novel with a Nazi victory as its premise: [1945.](http://www.amazon.com/1945-Newt-Gingrich/dp/0671877399/ref=pd_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1214090891&sr=8-2) ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2008, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-this-book-germany-wins-wwii/453690/11 "2008-06-21T23:38:31Z")
[QUOTE=Randy Seltzer] There’s also _The Man in the High Castle_ by Phillip K. Dick. Far fetched version of the USA in the '60s after Japan and Germany split it up. [/QUOTE] IIRC it mentions little of the UK in the “real” world other than a recollection by an Italian veteran of the invasion of Britain. In the literary world of the book within a book “The Grasshopper Lies Heavy” the UK wins the war. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2008, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-this-book-germany-wins-wwii/453690/12 "2008-06-22T00:40:27Z")
To fill in some details about _Fatherland_, the United Kingdom is independent but a subject state to Germany. There is an SS training school in Oxford. At the time of the novel, Germany is preparing for a summit meeting between Hitler and President Kennedy (that’s Joseph, not JFK!). Switzerland is still free. Surprisingly, the Beatles have still happened and have paid their dues in Hamburg. The protagonist remembers reading something about them in a magazine. Although the Cultural Ministry doesn’t approve of rock and roll, still the local promoters in Hamburg have apparently been permitted to follow their instincts. This makes me wonder if, by the time of the novel, the iron grip of the state hasn’t begun to show some rust and cracks. In real-life terms the Germany of this novel might be like China today, while the actual Germany of the late 1930s might be like China during the cultural revolution. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2008, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-this-book-germany-wins-wwii/453690/13 "2008-06-22T03:56:48Z")
Moving to Cafe Society. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Mahma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@Joe\_Mahma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Mahma)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2008, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-this-book-germany-wins-wwii/453690/14 "2008-06-22T13:58:06Z")
[QUOTE=NineToTheSky] There’s a book I’m looking for; trouble is, I don’t know what it’s called or who it’s by. I’m sure it’s by a famous popular author, and it’s about what would have happened (in the UK, I think) if the Germany had won the second world war. Can anyone help? [/QUOTE] There’s also a book called Hitler Victorius by Gregory Benford. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2008, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-this-book-germany-wins-wwii/453690/15 "2008-06-23T00:54:00Z")
There is also “In the Presence of My Enemies” by Harry Turtledove. One of his weakest, but a good read for a long plane flight. There is a subplot about the UK under Nazi rule. ---
**Author:** ![gnagtcha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@gnagtcha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnagtcha)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2008, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-this-book-germany-wins-wwii/453690/16 "2008-06-23T01:48:51Z")
The Children’s War by J.N. Stroyar was a very dismal look at the what-if premise. Kind of a downer all the way through. I’d probably read it again, though. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2008, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-find-this-book-germany-wins-wwii/453690/17 "2008-06-23T01:56:32Z")
[QUOTE=Savannah] I’m concurring with **Fatherland** by Richard Harris. it was good. [/QUOTE] Also agree that book was very good - but they came out with a film version that absolutely sucked! They totally changed the ending of the book in the film and it made no sense whatsoever! I had sent emails to friends to see the film, based upon having read the book. However, after I saw that crap film, I actually sent out emails to them all, apologizing for making them waste their time viewing that piece of crap.