# Help me ID a card game my grandmother taught me (need some rules help) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** board-card-word-game\ **Created:** [November 25, 2023, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-id-a-card-game-my-grandmother-taught-me-need-some-rules-help/993700 "2023-11-25T20:35:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-id-a-card-game-my-grandmother-taught-me-need-some-rules-help/993700/1 "2023-11-25T20:35:35Z")
I need some help in identifying a card game mt grandmother, “Mom-Mom”, taught me when I was a kid. I’ve got some rules questions . . . I’m trying to teach my **S** ignificant **OTH** er (SIGO) based on memory, and SIGO seems to have seen this game before. The problem is, SIGO is making ‘clarifications’ on rules I don’t remember. . . Mom-Mom taught me this game 30+ years ago, and has since passed on, my Hoyle’s rulebook is no help (close though), and neither [this](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-identify-this-card-game/591264) thread, [this](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-identify-this-card-game-and-finish-the-rules/414383) one, nor [this](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/card-games-help/22888) one recommended by Discourse seem to be a match. . . – Here goes: Each player is dealt five cards face down, and the remainder of the deck is set aside (the “fresh pile”), with the top card beIng turned over to start the “discard pile.” Each player starts their turn by either drawing from the freh pile, or drawing from the discard pile1. The goal is to accumulate _sets_ of at least three-of-a-kind (3♠, 3♣, 3♥) or ‘runs’ in sequence of the same suit (6♣, 7♣, 8♣) earning points along the way until you get rid of all the cards in your hand (I’ll call it ‘_turning out_’). Players end their turn by dropping one card of their choice into the discard pile2. Non-face cards are worth 5 points, 10s & face cards are worth 10, aces are worth 11 points. Cards left in your hand when someone else _turns out_ are deducted from your played sets, and you can go negative on your overall score. When someone _turns out_, points are calculated, cards are gathered & reshuffled, and a new deal starts. First player to 250 or 500 wins the overall game. Here’s some twists though: - (1) Players don’t have to pull just the _last_ card from the discard pile–they can pull a bunch (I’ll call it a “_snake_”). This is good in that you can pick up multiple cards to build sets with, but it’s bad 'cause it adds extra cards to your hand. SIGO says your turn-ending discard may not be from the head or tail of the snake (i.e. the first or last card picked up in the _snake_), but I don’t think this is true. - (2) I say if you can _turn out_ you do not have to play a discard. SIGO says you must have at least one card in your hand at the end of your _turn out_ because you must discard. – I’m not sure if this is “gin,” 'rummy," some mix of the two, or some weird variant of either. Mom-Mom’s long gone, and her memory wasn’t the best at the time, but damn skippy she consistently locked onto those rules for the 25+ years I got to play cards with her. So . . . what game _ **is** _ this? Have I been playing a heavily-house-ruled version of something formal? Tripler Many, many fond memories with this game. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-id-a-card-game-my-grandmother-taught-me-need-some-rules-help/993700/2 "2023-11-25T21:57:44Z")
Based on what you’ve described, it’s very much like the rummy game my mother taught me when I was a wee small child. The only significant difference I can recall is that you could pick up multiple cards from the discard pile, but you had to use each card to build a set - nothing went into your hand. Mom just called it “rummy.” ---
**Author:** ![Briny\_Deep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/briny_deep/32/17188_2.png) [@Briny\_Deep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Briny_Deep)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-id-a-card-game-my-grandmother-taught-me-need-some-rules-help/993700/3 "2023-11-25T22:05:48Z")
This is absolutely Rummy, by whatever name. We called it Rummy 500, playing multiple hands till someone got 500 points. Wikipedia calls it [500 Rum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/500_rum). Your twist #1 – I’m speaking from family tradition here, not Hoyle’s or anything – if you pick up multiple cards, you must not only not discard the oldest card in the stack, but you must immediately _play_ it in the same turn. And twist #2, you are correct, not SIGO. In general you must discard at the end of each turn, but the exception is if one player plays all their cards and has nothing to discard. Then the hand continues with the turn passing. At the empty-handed person’s next turn, they may draw any card and either discard it, ending the hand, or play it (if possible and desired), extending the hand again. ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2023, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-id-a-card-game-my-grandmother-taught-me-need-some-rules-help/993700/4 "2023-11-26T14:37:09Z")
Thanks, guys! This is big, and I am obliged to you! > [@Briny\_Deep](#): > > At the empty-handed person’s next turn, they may draw any card and either discard it, ending the hand, or play it (if possible and desired), extending the hand again So, does this mean that playing with multiple people _continues_? I’m confused . . . The wiki link indicated, as I thought too, that when someone’s empty handed, the round stops. Tripler Oh man, I’m glad that despite my aging, I can still remember my youth. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2023, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-id-a-card-game-my-grandmother-taught-me-need-some-rules-help/993700/5 "2023-11-26T17:45:24Z")
I also learned that you must discard, and so you can’t go out if that would leave you with no cards in hand. But I’m sure that this is a rule that varies from group to group. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2023, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-id-a-card-game-my-grandmother-taught-me-need-some-rules-help/993700/6 "2023-11-26T17:51:00Z")
As others have said, this is Rummy. We played this for hours at Grandpa’s house. But we received 7 cards to start, not five as the OP stated. 7 cards is what the linked Wiki article specifies. And, yes, you must have a card to discard to end the hand! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2023, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-id-a-card-game-my-grandmother-taught-me-need-some-rules-help/993700/7 "2023-11-26T18:42:21Z")
Oh, and you also can’t get around the must-discard rule by discarding a card that you could have otherwise used to go out, because discarding a card that you could have used lets your opponent call it, take that card and its points, and gives you a penalty (an extra two cards, IIRC). ---
**Author:** ![Briny\_Deep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/briny_deep/32/17188_2.png) [@Briny\_Deep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Briny_Deep)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2023, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-id-a-card-game-my-grandmother-taught-me-need-some-rules-help/993700/8 "2023-11-26T18:57:38Z")
> [@Tripler](#): > > So, does this mean that playing with multiple people _continues_? I’m confused . . . The wiki link indicated, as I thought too, that when someone’s empty handed, the round stops. Yes, that’s the way we played: since what ends the round is a discard that empties one player’s hand, if it’s impossible for that player to discard (because they played all the cards in their hand and have nothing left to discard), the round isn’t ended. Play passes with the game kind of in suspended animation at that point, until it comes back around to the empty handed person, who just has to pick up and discard (the same card), ending the round. Or, if they like what they see and can play it, they may, and it’s _still_ not over till they discard. Someone I think suggested that a discard is ALWAYS required, which might mean I could be holding King-Queen-Ace (and nothing else) in my hand, and would not be allowed to play that because it would empty my hand but leave me unable to discard. Fair enough. Another variation I found online ([BicycleCards.com](http://BicycleCards.com)) says in that situation, playing those cards (emptying my hand) ends the round with no discard. Does anybody have a Hoyle’s? It looks like it’s still under copyright and not available online. ETA: > [@Chronos](#): > > Oh, and you also can’t get around the must-discard rule by discarding a card that you could have otherwise used to go out, because discarding a card that you could have used lets your opponent call it, take that card and its points, and gives you a penalty (an extra two cards, IIRC). Ooh, penalty! When that happened in my family, whoever saw the valuable discard first could slap it and claim it, even if not their turn. But nobody got a penalty, just the shame of having wasted good points. ---
**Author:** ![alfonzos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alfonzos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alfonzos)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2023, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-id-a-card-game-my-grandmother-taught-me-need-some-rules-help/993700/9 "2023-11-26T23:16:34Z")
My go-to source for card game rules: [Pagat](https://www.pagat.com/) ---
**Author:** ![TXRebel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6de8d8/32.png) [@TXRebel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TXRebel)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2023, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-id-a-card-game-my-grandmother-taught-me-need-some-rules-help/993700/10 "2023-11-27T13:15:15Z")
I really have nothing to add other than this is 500 Rummy. I agree with most in that you can pick up the snake but you have to lay down at least one set. I also agree that if you play all your cards you have to do the circuit again until it’s your turn so you can draw,discard and WIN! ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2023, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-id-a-card-game-my-grandmother-taught-me-need-some-rules-help/993700/11 "2023-11-27T14:11:49Z")
> [@Briny\_Deep](#): > > Yes, that’s the way we played: since what ends the round is a discard that empties one player’s hand, if it’s impossible for that player to discard (because they played all the cards in their hand and have nothing left to discard), the round isn’t ended. Play passes with the game kind of in suspended animation at that point, until it comes back around to the empty handed person, who just has to pick up and discard (the same card), ending the round. Or, if they like what they see and can play it, they may, and it’s _still_ not over till they discard. Now I understand–I think I’ll introduce this to SIGO, who might like the opportunity to close the gap in points, or even _win_ if she’s got one opportunity before I legally turn out. > [@Briny\_Deep](#): > > Another variation I found online ([BicycleCards.com](http://BicycleCards.com)) > [@alfonzos](#): > > My go-to source for card game rules: [Pagat](https://www.pagat.com/) Oh these links are _fantastic_! Thanks @Briny_Deep and @alfonzos! Tripler I’m glad I brought this game up! ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2023, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-id-a-card-game-my-grandmother-taught-me-need-some-rules-help/993700/12 "2023-11-27T14:19:48Z")
> [@Briny\_Deep](#): > > Does anybody have a Hoyle’s? Not Hoyle but we have the **Official Rules of Card Games** by the United States Playing Card Company (53rd Edition; Whitman, 1963) > [@Tripler](#): > > (1) Players don’t have to pull just the _last_ card from the discard pile–they can pull a bunch (I’ll call it a “_snake_”). This is good in that you can pick up multiple cards to build sets with, but it’s bad 'cause it adds extra cards to your hand. SIGO says your turn-ending discard may not be from the head or tail of the snake (i.e. the first or last card picked up in the _snake_), but I don’t think this is true. The above states that the tail must be immediately used – either with a meld already on the table or to establish a new meld out of the player’s hand. > [@Tripler](#): > > (2) I say if you can _turn out_ you do not have to play a discard. SIGO says you must have at least one card in your hand at the end of your _turn out_ because you must discard. The book doesn’t mention any such requirement, but I have played the “floating” variation described by @Briny_Deep. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2023, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-id-a-card-game-my-grandmother-taught-me-need-some-rules-help/993700/13 "2023-11-30T17:33:42Z")
Note that rummy has many variants. It’s up to the players to agree on the specific rules they’re using when they play. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2023, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-id-a-card-game-my-grandmother-taught-me-need-some-rules-help/993700/14 "2023-12-02T03:39:56Z")
A Variant of 5 card rummy that I used to play is “Tonk” [Tonk (card game) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonk_(card_game)). ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2023, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-id-a-card-game-my-grandmother-taught-me-need-some-rules-help/993700/15 "2023-12-02T15:40:31Z")
Tonk is played under wagers? Oooh, Inever thought of that . . . “_Sweetheart, first one to 500 points doesn’t have to vacuum the living room!_” 😃 Tripler Oh man, this thread has wildly expanded my horizons.