# Help me indentify this book from my childhood. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 25, 2008, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-indentify-this-book-from-my-childhood/434945 "2008-01-25T12:46:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mischievous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mischievous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mischievous)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2008, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-indentify-this-book-from-my-childhood/434945/1 "2008-01-25T12:46:47Z")
Yes, this is one of those terribly vague questions. It would take a while to explain why I want to find the book again, but suffice it to say that I think would be a fitting memorial for a friend of mine who committed suicide. This is what I remember: Classic dark fantasy storyline. Protagonist is the seventh son of a seventh son, currently adolescent, with his associated friends and/or siblings. The fact that he’s the seventh son isn’t revealed until later in the book (I think maybe he didn’t know about a sibling that died?). He and his family are being threatened (I don’t remember why) by magical creatures that come from the forest and look basically human but have huge deer antlers and ride horses that are just skeletons of horses. It may only be the king/leader/head honcho of the evil people that has the antlers. The clearest part I remember about the book is an illustration. You’re looking up at the edge of a very dark forest, and, towering over you, is the oncoming king of evil, emerging from the darkness of the trees. You can just see a little bit of the evil king, and the head and outhrust foreleg of his skeletal mount, which was particularly creepy because the artist emphasized the sharpness of the shin bone so that it looked almost blade-like. I would have read this book 20-25 years ago, so it’s probably long out of print. It was at roughly a 11-14 year old reading level then, and I remember it being a largish paperback (i.e. trade paperback size). Does anyone have the faintest idea what I’m talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2008, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-indentify-this-book-from-my-childhood/434945/2 "2008-01-25T12:49:21Z")
Sounds a little like _The Dark is Rising_, but it’s been long enough since I read it that I make no guarantees. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2008, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-indentify-this-book-from-my-childhood/434945/3 "2008-01-25T12:52:12Z")
[QUOTE=Morgyn] Sounds a little like _The Dark is Rising_, but it’s been long enough since I read it that I make no guarantees. [/QUOTE] Yeah, it’s the seventh-son thing that’s leading you down that path; that’s where I went, too, but I think it’s incorrect. We knew Will was a s.s.o.a.s.s. from the start, and the Rider was intimidating, but not skeletal. It could have changed in memory, though. ETA: [Wikipedia has an (incomplete, I’m sure) list of “seventh son” books.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh_son_of_a_seventh_son#Literature) Anything there ring a bell? ---
**Author:** ![mischievous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mischievous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mischievous)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2008, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-indentify-this-book-from-my-childhood/434945/4 "2008-01-25T13:56:38Z")
You people astound me. I’m not 100% sure it’s right, but I definitely remember reading books called “Over Sea, Under Stone”, “Greenwitch”, and “Silver on the Tree”, so it’s quite likely that the illustration I’m remembering is in one of this series. And yes, it’s entirely likely that my memory has been distorted in the past 20+ years. It may not be easy to find the old versions of these books, but now at least I have titles to look for! You guys rock! ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2008, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-indentify-this-book-from-my-childhood/434945/5 "2008-01-25T14:06:57Z")
[QUOTE=mischievous] You people astound me. I’m not 100% sure it’s right, but I definitely remember reading books called “Over Sea, Under Stone”, “Greenwitch”, and “Silver on the Tree”, so it’s quite likely that the illustration I’m remembering is in one of this series. And yes, it’s entirely likely that my memory has been distorted in the past 20+ years. It may not be easy to find the old versions of these books, but now at least I have titles to look for! You guys rock! [/QUOTE] The books are more popular than ever - a movie was made of _A Dark Is Rising_ last year (although I hear it wasn’t very good.) You should have no problem finding them in any bookstore that sells YA fiction. Even if those aren’t the books you remember, they’re worth a read anyway if you like good real-world based fantasy. Enjoy! ---
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2008, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-indentify-this-book-from-my-childhood/434945/6 "2008-01-25T15:02:17Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] Yeah, it’s the seventh-son thing that’s leading you down that path; that’s where I went, too, but I think it’s incorrect. We knew Will was a s.s.o.a.s.s. from the start, and the Rider was intimidating, but not skeletal. It could have changed in memory, though. ETA: [Wikipedia has an (incomplete, I’m sure) list of “seventh son” books.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh_son_of_a_seventh_son#Literature) Anything there ring a bell? [/QUOTE] I don’t think we know Will is a s.s.o.a.s.s. at the beginning, nor does Will. He doesn’t learn about the older baby who died until the family decorates the Christmas tree, and finds the ornaments that were made for each baby. Every other kid has his/her initial on the ornament, but Will’s is the cross in the circle – it’s actually one of the signs. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2008, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-indentify-this-book-from-my-childhood/434945/7 "2008-01-25T15:42:09Z")
[QUOTE=delphica] I don’t think we know Will is a s.s.o.a.s.s. at the beginning, nor does Will. He doesn’t learn about the older baby who died until the family decorates the Christmas tree, and finds the ornaments that were made for each baby. Every other kid has his/her initial on the ornament, but Will’s is the cross in the circle – it’s actually one of the signs. [/QUOTE] Oh, you are correct! It’s fairly early on though, isn’t it? Before the manor and the freeze, at least. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2008, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-indentify-this-book-from-my-childhood/434945/8 "2008-01-25T16:22:07Z")
Could it have been _The Tales Of Alvin Maker_? The series is 20 years old, only just within your timeframe. I’ve only read the third book in the series. I don’t recall skeletal horses, but they might be in other books. A couple of points of similarity to your description, though. He was a seventh son of a seventh, and he had a brother who died the same day he was born. There was an evil character _The Unmaker_ who wanted to destroy him. > **[The Tales of Alvin Maker](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tales_of_Alvin_Maker)** > > The Tales of Alvin Maker is a series of six alternate history fantasy novels written by American novelist Orson Scott Card, published from 1987 to 2003, with one more planned. They explore the experiences of a young man, Alvin Miller, who realizes he has incredible powers for creating and shaping things around him. > The stories take place on the American frontier in the early 19th century, a fantasy setting based on early American folklore and superstition in a world in which folk magic actually ... ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2008, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-indentify-this-book-from-my-childhood/434945/9 "2008-01-25T16:30:30Z")
_Seventh Son_, the first of the Alvin Maker books, was the first thing I thought of too, but IIRC it was known practically from the beginning of the book that he was the seventh son of a seventh son. It’s been a while since I read it, and my copy is packed away at the moment, so I can’t confirm whether or not there were skeletal horses. ---
**Author:** ![sciguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@sciguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciguy)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2008, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-indentify-this-book-from-my-childhood/434945/10 "2008-01-25T18:16:28Z")
I’m almost positive _Seventh Son_ (or any of the sequels) didn’t have any skeletal riders in it. And it was more of an “alternate history” series (magic actually exists in post-Revolutionary war America) than a full-bore fantasy (no supernatural creatures other than the “Unmaker”, no non-human characters, etc). Is it possible you’re mixing two different books in your memory? Your description of the rider sounds a lot like the Horned King in _The Book of Three_ by Lloyd Alexander. It didn’t have any seventh son plotline, although the main character is a foundling, so his ancestry is unknown. I had a copy with cover art that sounds similar to the picture you mentioned. Some quick googling around found [this cover art](http://www.amazon.com/Book-Three-Prydain-Chronicles/dp/0440407028) on Amazon that matches what I was remembering. If nothing else, IMHO _Alvin Maker_, _Dark is Rising_, and _Prydain Chronicles_ are all excellent series to read anyway. So you may find them worth checking out regardless of whether they match the book you’re trying to find. ---
**Author:** ![mischievous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mischievous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mischievous)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2008, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-indentify-this-book-from-my-childhood/434945/11 "2008-01-25T21:45:23Z")
I think it’s definitely the Dark is Rising series, mostly because definitely remember reading books by those titles and even a little bit of the creepy aura of Greenwitch, and also because the scene that **delphica** describes where it is revealed that the protangonist is the seventh son matches my memory. I might pick up the books to read again, but I’m particularly interested in re-finding that illustration, so I want to find the old versions. Alvin Maker is probably not my quarry - none of the names ring a bell, and I can’t imagine Orson Scott Card writing anything as atmospherically creepy as what I remember. **sciguy** , that picture is definitely in the same vein as my old memory, but it’s not the right one. Great find, though, because it looks like it could be the same artist. ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2008, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-indentify-this-book-from-my-childhood/434945/12 "2008-01-25T22:05:49Z")
[QUOTE=sciguy] Is it possible you’re mixing two different books in your memory? Your description of the rider sounds a lot like the Horned King in _The Book of Three_ by Lloyd Alexander. It didn’t have any seventh son plotline, although the main character is a foundling, so his ancestry is unknown. [/QUOTE] I thought Lloyd Alexander myself, though I couldn’t exactly identify the book. I read _The Dark is Rising_ somewhat recently, and while it differs in detail from the description in the OP, it could still be the same book. ---
**Author:** ![Einmon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Einmon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Einmon)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2008, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-indentify-this-book-from-my-childhood/434945/13 "2008-01-25T22:36:37Z")
I actually read The Dark is Rising the other day (and the other books from the series), and I think I distinctly remember skeletal horses. It wasn’t the Rider, but rather something like the Dark Hunt, I think. Let me take a look, I’ll report back. ---
**Author:** ![Einmon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Einmon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Einmon)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2008, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-indentify-this-book-from-my-childhood/434945/14 "2008-01-25T22:42:06Z")
Didn’t have to look long, they’re [on the cover of the book even](http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~aahobor/Lucy-Day/Images/Covers-50/Silver-on-the-Tree.jpg). It’s the last book “Silver on the Tree”. ---
**Author:** ![JR\_Brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JR\_Brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JR_Brown)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2008, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-indentify-this-book-from-my-childhood/434945/15 "2008-01-26T04:02:55Z")
[QUOTE=sciguy] Is it possible you’re mixing two different books in your memory? Your description of the rider sounds a lot like the Horned King in _The Book of Three_ by Lloyd Alexander. It didn’t have any seventh son plotline, although the main character is a foundling, so his ancestry is unknown. I had a copy with cover art that sounds similar to the picture you mentioned. Some quick googling around found [this cover art](http://www.amazon.com/Book-Three-Prydain-Chronicles/dp/0440407028) on Amazon that matches what I was remembering. [/QUOTE] That was my guess too. If you figure it out, tell us which was right, and if you reread either, is it still any good? I can’t even remember whether I liked Alexander as a tot or not… JRB On edit: [this](http://www.pixiepalace.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/thebookofthree.jpg) is the cover I remember… ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2008, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-indentify-this-book-from-my-childhood/434945/16 "2008-01-26T06:40:32Z")
The horned rider he’s thinking of is probably Herne the Hunter, who makes an appearance at the end of The Dark is Rising, and whose head had branching antlers. He’s part of the Wild Magic, and Cooper makes him seem menacing and frightful to even the Light.