# Help me learn Backgammon **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** board-card-word-game\ **Created:** [June 28, 2023, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-backgammon/986198 "2023-06-28T02:32:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2023, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-backgammon/986198/41 "2023-06-30T17:00:41Z")
Rodney Smith does a lot of Euro game explanations, but here is his backgammon video: > **[How To Play Backgammon Correctly! - A Full Tutorial](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOQWJvsI4LE%2F)** > > In this video, we're going to learn how to play Backgammon! If you have any comments or questions, please do not hesitate to post them in the YouTube commen... Brian ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2023, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-backgammon/986198/42 "2023-06-30T18:53:08Z")
> [@N9IWP](#): > > Rodney Smith does a lot of Euro game explanations, but here is his backgammon video: That was incredibly helpful. Thank you. BTW: Rodney Smith looks like Brian Dietzen. ---
**Author:** ![Mark\_Finn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/34f0e0/32.png) [@Mark\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mark_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2023, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-backgammon/986198/43 "2023-07-01T00:14:32Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > > [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > > > I believe the roller with the higher number then plays the numbers that were rolled by each player. They don’t start the game with a normal roll with two dice. > > That’s right. It’s a bit of an offset advantage/disadvantage: you get the first move, but you don’t get the chance of starting with a double-whatever move. > > I think the standard rule says if the two of you do roll matching numbers, you roll again until you don’t match…and each time you match, the doubling die gets bumped to the next level. So the game you thought you were playing for a buck, could start out at $2 or even more. I wonder what the highest number of starting double rolls has ever been? That would be an “automatic double”. In money games, players usually agree to no automatic doubles, or set a reasonable limit of one or two, so that the cube never starts higher than 2 or 4. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2023, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-backgammon/986198/44 "2023-07-01T02:57:46Z")
I’ve played three games with the game I have. I lost the first two, and won the third. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2023, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-backgammon/986198/45 "2023-07-22T01:28:03Z")
The Backgammon Masters Online game I have on my desktop seems to like giving my virtual opponent doubles when it’s time to bear off the pieces. I get doubles sometimes, but my opponent seems to get at least twice as many. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2023, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-backgammon/986198/46 "2023-07-22T20:02:49Z")
The curious thing about backgammon is EVERYONE believes they get fewer doubles in the bear off than their opponent 🙂. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2023, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-backgammon/986198/47 "2023-07-22T21:19:27Z")
GNU Backgammon was accused of this so much that the developers gave users the random seed to any game they played where you can follow what all the rolls of the game would be, in order to rule out any hanky panky, and yet folks were still suspicious that the computer somehow cheated. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-backgammon/986198/48 "2023-08-01T23:40:20Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > I believe the roller with the higher number then plays the numbers that were rolled by each player. They don’t start the game with a normal roll with two dice. That’s a flexible rule when playing for money. In most money games I’ve played, the higher number gets the option of rerolling to allow for the possibility of doubles. Why should you be penalized for winning the beginning throw? > [@Dead\_Cat](#): > > The curious thing about backgammon is EVERYONE believes they get fewer doubles in the bear off than their opponent 🙂. I used to play an opponent who constantly whined about my lucky numbers. So one game, I had a third party write down every throw of our game, which I eventually won. Then we played again, this time we had to use each others throws. I won again… and that finally shut him up. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-backgammon/986198/49 "2023-08-02T12:00:13Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > this time we had to use each others throws. I won again Ah yes, the old Bear Bryant method. > [@Bum Phillips](#): > > Bryant can take _his’n_ and _beat your_ 'n, and then he can turn around and take _your_ 'n and _beat his’n_ ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-backgammon/986198/50 "2023-08-02T17:09:26Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > Why should you be penalized for winning the beginning throw? Well, in nearly all cases (I believe 2-1 is the sole exception), winning the opening roll puts you ahead already. I suspect this rule variation swings the advantage too much towards the luckier player. ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-backgammon/986198/51 "2023-08-02T17:40:19Z")
Of course, the rather… deterministic nature of the reverse game would also benefit the player with the better memory, especially if that player was the one who set up the challenge in the first place, and paid rather better attention to the sequence of rolls than the other. I mean, it’s easy to leave a blot on a (normally) vulnerable point when you can be sure your opponent won’t be able to hit it with their next roll, and _your_ next roll means you’ll be able to double it up. Not that I’m accusing **Lucas\_Jackson** of doing this, at least not consciously. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-backgammon/986198/52 "2023-08-02T19:12:04Z")
Ha ha, you are giving my memory skill way more credit than it deserves. Both of us knew in advance what was taking place so there was equal opportunity to memorize the entire sequence of rolls. But that’s a very tall order for anyone - even if you could memorize 95% of the rolls (virtually impossible in my mind), if you forget one roll in the sequence, that could do you in. ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-backgammon/986198/53 "2023-08-02T19:26:23Z")
That’s true - one miss and you’re toast. And it’s hard to construct a memory palace on the fly. It does bring up one question though - are there duplicate backgammon tournaments, set up like duplicate bridge? These days, you could do it with a bunch of pseudorandom number generators, all set to the same seed at the start of each game. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-backgammon/986198/54 "2023-08-02T19:37:18Z")
Yeah, I’m sure you could. But this was a one-off thing. I know there are chess masters who can play opponents blindfolded, etc. but I claim no special skills and this was the only time I’ve done it. It was this one guy who could never bring himself to admit he lost fair and square so this was my attempt to shut him up. I also considered playing him and not counting doubles as doubles, but in the end did it that way. And it worked, the few times I played him after that, he took his lumps. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2023, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-backgammon/986198/55 "2023-08-03T07:37:22Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > That’s a flexible rule when playing for money. In most money games I’ve played, the higher number gets the option of rerolling to allow for the possibility of doubles. Why should you be penalized for winning the beginning throw? Just because the opening roll can’t be a double doesn’t mean that player is penalized. Player A gets a turn (which can’t be a double). Player B gets a turn. Player A gets a turn. etc. The advantage of going first is not as great as it might otherwise be, but I’d say it’s still an advantage to go first. I wouldn’t agree to a game where the winner got the option to re-roll. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2023, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-backgammon/986198/56 "2023-08-03T13:18:05Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > The advantage of going first is not as great as it might otherwise be, but I’d say it’s still an advantage to go first. I wouldn’t agree to a game where the winner got the option to re-roll. The potential to roll doubles on a first re-roll isn’t that great either. I disagree that going first is a significant advantage. Having the option to roll double on you opening roll evens the playing field. In casual and tournament play I’ll happily follow the official rules but not for money. Not that it’s a deal breaker, but I’ll certainly push for it. But in practice it rarely alters the opening game. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2023, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-backgammon/986198/57 "2023-08-03T14:08:22Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > The potential to roll doubles on a first re-roll isn’t that great either. I disagree that going first is a significant advantage. I didn’t say it was a significant advantage. Removing the possibility of starting with a double keeps it to a small advantage. That’s how it should be. A game should be as fair as we can make it. The player who’s lucky enough to get the first move shouldn’t get a huge advantage; that would put too much emphasis on one lucky roll. > [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > Having the option to roll double on you opening roll evens the playing field. This does not make sense. Going first is a slight advantage. Making that advantage bigger does not level the playing field, it makes it more un-level. Personally, I think the option to re-roll is more of an advantage than just the possibility of rolling a double. If you get a good roll, like 3-1, 4-2, or 6-5, you can take it. If you don’t like the roll, you get to try again. I wonder if this rule change was suggested for money games to make luck a bigger part of the game. Suppose you and I were to play a game. To start, we each roll one die. If we roll the same number, we roll again. If the dice don’t match, I will use those numbers and make the first move, regardless of who rolled the higher number. Would you accept those rules? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2023, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-backgammon/986198/58 "2023-08-03T14:16:24Z")
There’s a discussion of this on Reddit: [https://www.reddit.com/r/backgammon/comments/mpgt1n/probability\_of\_winning\_for\_first\_player\_if/](https://www.reddit.com/r/backgammon/comments/mpgt1n/probability_of_winning_for_first_player_if/) Opening player with standard rules (no doubles) has a 51.3% win probability (that’s pretty well established elsewhere, too). Allowing opening doubles seems to get that probability up to 53.6% if the math in that thread is to be believed. Also, a 4-1 opening roll is the only one that gives the second to go a very slight advantage. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2023, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-backgammon/986198/59 "2023-08-03T14:24:09Z")
In the game I’m playing, you can’t have doubles on the first move. If you and your opponent roll the same number, neither one gets to go first. You roll until one player gets a higher number than the other player, and the player with the higher number uses the numbers on both dice as his first roll. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2023, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-backgammon/986198/60 "2023-08-03T14:24:56Z")
Those are the normal rules, yes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-backgammon/986198.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-backgammon/986198.md?page=4)