# Help me learn to like anime
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-to-like-anime/272010
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [October 30, 2004, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-to-like-anime/272010 "2004-10-30T12:56:09Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@davenportavenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davenportavenger)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2004, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-to-like-anime/272010/1 "2004-10-30T12:56:09Z")
I hate anime. A lot. Whenever someone on the Internet starts talking about their favorite anime series I tune out because I think it sucks so much. It seems like every anime series I’ve ever seen falls under one of two broad themes:
1. A bunch of spunky teenagers go on a quest of some kind. They have some sort of magical silver ball/playing card set/magic conch shell that calls forth some kind of magical beings like Pokemons or Digimons or Yu-Gi-Ohs. These beings all have fighting stats which are displayed on the screen in seizure-inducing neon colors. Then they fight, and the viewers at home are left to tabulate who the winner will be based on an obsessively detailed chart of stats. It doesn’t matter which magical being wins the fight, since the show always ends the same way it starts out, with the blue-haired spunky kids continuing on their meaningless quest for nothing.
2. A bunch of chicks at some boarding school who all look and dress alike (and, because of dubbing, all sound alike) sit around and giggle a lot. They have a cat or something, that gets into mischief. This just makes them giggle more. Also, one of them can turn into a robot sometimes.
Oh, and also, I hate that anime episodes are not self-contained; if you haven’t watched since the beginning of the series you’re lost. That’s the reason I can’t watch soap operas; I hate things with an extensive backstory that I can’t possibly catch up on. And it certainly doesn’t help that anime freaks put lots of crap like -^^- in their posts and all name themselves after their favorite look-alike characters. Doesn’t help at all.
But I want to learn to like it. Because there are a few anime things I’ve seen that I like. A lot. For instance, I really liked _Akira_. I liked the visuals in the few episodes of _Cowboy Bebop_ I’ve seen, though I couldn’t really get into it when it was on Adult Swim because it was a sequential series that I hadn’t followed from the beginning. I liked the two or so episodes of _Aeon Flux_ that actually aired (although that didn’t come from Japan, I don’t think).
So, recommend some other movies or series that I might like. It would help if these series were a) dark and/or cyberpunkish, b) were sorta philosophical or political, not like kid stuff, and c) have great visuals, unlike most anime series that basically look like crap because the characters jerk around like they’re going into the tertiary stage of syphilis and still frames are shown for several seconds at a time. I’d really like to “get” this art form. But I’ve been so unimpressed with 97% of the stuff I’ve seen that I’ve pretty much given up on any anime. I’m willing to try it out one last time, though, so I’m looking for recommendations of stuff I might actually not hate that much.
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### Author:  [@Jayn\_Newell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayn_Newell)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2004, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-to-like-anime/272010/2 "2004-10-30T13:29:22Z")
While I can’t vouch for American television, here is Canada there isn’t much to watch, many shows either get dumbed down or were kiddy to begin with. I would kill for Adult Swim some days.
I think you’d like the _Ghost in the Shell_ movie, as well as the (recently released) TV series, _Ghost in the Shell: Stand-Alone Complex_. The latter was suppossed to start airing recently, I have no idea if it did or not, but it started coming out on DVD this summer. (BTW, the storylines of the series and the movie don’t interact. The movie events never happened in the series, and vice versa). It’s dark, cyberpunkish, and at times really stops to make you think. Not to mention great graphics. And while some episodes are part of a storyline, others are stand-alone and can be enjoyed on their own. FTR, I think the movie is overrated, but still worth at least one watch.
_runs through collection_ You might like _Millenium Actress_ too. It’s not really dark, but the graphics are also really good, and kiddy it is not. Though there is no English language track, so if you mind subtitles a lot, you might want to give it a pass.
_Chrno Crusade_ is suppossed to come out on DVD this year. It’s dark, but the graphics aren’t as good since it was a cable TV show (as oppossed to GitS:SAC which was pay-per-view). Still decent though. The idea is that a nun and a demon kill demons in New York around 19…13? I can’t remember. At least, it starts that way. The plot becomes more involved as the show goes along, but that goes without saying.
I’ll throw _X_ in there too. It’s not a great movie, they had to fit a lot into a small time frame, but again, worth at least one watch. Though the ending is a bit disappointing. There’s also a series, _X/1999_, which I haven’t seen, but my understanding is that it’s the same storyline, only there’s time to develop things more.
And you’ll have to deal with still frames if you’re going to watch anime. Less so in movies and shows originally released on video, but it’s part of the style. Ditto on the episodes not being self-contained, which is part of the reason I like anime personally.
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### Author:  [@pung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pung)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2004, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-to-like-anime/272010/3 "2004-10-30T14:03:05Z")
I’m also not too fond of anime though I’ve found that I love anything directed by Hayao Miyazaki. [http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0594503/](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0594503/)
Nearly all of his movies are brilliant.
But you’re sure to like:
Spirited Away (won the Oscar for best animated picture)
Princess Mononoke
I think Disney is releasing Porco Rosso (aka Crimson Pig) and My Neighbour Totoro in the US soon (Fox released a horribly dubbed Fullscreen version of Totoro on DVD, avoid it at all costs!).
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### Author:  [@Brainiac4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brainiac4)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2004, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-to-like-anime/272010/4 "2004-10-30T15:27:04Z")
I share your disdain for the mass-produced crapola like Pokemon and its derivatives, and I don’t care for the girl-school stuff.
But I have a pretty large anime collection. How’s that work?
Well, anime is like science fiction, in that it’s more of a framework to use than a genre. Not to get into arguments over genre (which \*\*Dangerosa \*\*and I do from time to time, since we have really different approaches to the subject), but anime is simply animation from Japan. There are a number of conventions that are broadly used (like female characters having pink or blue hair, or huge eyes, or the tendency to shift animation styles from realistic to cartoony to indicate shifts in emotion or mood), but there are all kinds of anime, from drama to romance to action to comedy.
The stuff you’ve seen is crap, no doubt about it. So allow me to recommend some non-crap.
(If you have a Netflix membership, that’s a great way to sample some anime without risk – or you can see what’s at your local video rental place.)
The already-mentioned **Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex (GitS:SAC)** TV series is very very good. No pink hair, huge eyes or style shifts in evidence, either. I’m on the fence regarding the \*\*Ghost in the Shell \*\*movie, as it contains long somewhat surreal sequences, is rather psychological, and can really bore people. \*\*SAC \*\*is near-future cyber-cop SF, decidedly hard-edged.
**Cowboy Bebop** is one of my favorite series. It’s more SF, with bounty hunters roaming the galaxy trying to score big. Dumb title, but very well done, with great music. Bebop is the series that taught me to like jazz, with soundtracks for each episode composed by the great Yoko Kanno. She’s also responsible for the **GitS:SAC** soundtrack, which is really different – amazing range.
\*\*Trigun \*\*is a fascinating series. It starts out as a dumb comedy, with a goofball main character (Vash the Stampede, “The 60 Billion Double-Dollar Man”, also known as the Human Tornado). It does indulge in some of the conventions – in particular dramatic shifts in animation style to emphasize tonal shifts – but it develops from goofball comedy to science fiction adventure to fairly dark psychological drama. Strange but fun.
**Read or Die** is a 3-episode series (known as an OVA, basically a shortish movie in 3 acts, presented as episodes). It’s beautiful and cool, and has some great dialogue (“I hate my codename. ‘Ms. Deep.’ It makes me sound like a porn star.”) and awesome action. The main character, Yomiko Readman, is known as The Paper, and for good reason. I will say no more for fear of spoiling the fun. It’s sort of followed by a TV series (“ **ROD the TV** ”) which is different but still excellent.
\*\*Noir \*\*is a straight-up action drama, with two female leads who are assassins. Again, deeply psychological drama. I am irritated at the voice acting of one of the leads (at least in the English dub), as she voices the character in a breathy, quiet voice. While correct for the character, it doesn’t come through well on my system unless I jack up the volume (need to fix my speaker setup, I guess).
\*\*Blood \*\*is an excellent short movie. Modern vampire story, with awesome animation.
**Ninja Scroll** is older but great – historical/fantastic ninja story, with super-bad-ninjas with amazing powers.
**Kiddy Grade** is my current fascination. It’s far-future superhero/secret agent stuff, with girl superheroes (and boys, too). It has more “fanservice” (jiggly boobs and panty shots) than it should, but I just frown and move on. The story is rather intricate, once it gets going, and the superhero stuff is fun.
**Dead Leaves** is new, freaky and different. Somewhere between traditional anime and Road Runner cartoons, with a PG-13 (at least) rating. I liked it a lot.
You can find a bunch more at [www.animeondvd.com](http://www.animeondvd.com) – I use that for reference. I don’t always agree with their opinions (they hated Dead Leaves, for example) but they’ve rarely steered me wrong.
Why do I not post links to places you can buy these online? Because I work at one such place, and would rather keep conflict of interest out of the picture.
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### Author:  [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2004, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-to-like-anime/272010/5 "2004-10-30T15:27:25Z")
Dark and cyberpunkish? You want [Serial Experiments Lain](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00005NX1N/qid=1099148498/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-0104651-6494553?v=glance&s=dvd). It’s thirteen episodes. The link is to the box set, but you can probably find it to rent somewhere. And they do sell the individual DVDs. Or maybe the old standby, [Neon Genesis Evangelion](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000639E0/qid=1099148718/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-0104651-6494553?v=glance&s=dvd). Once again, the link is to the box set, but I’m sure you can rent them somewhere. [Gasaraki](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00006CY42/ref=pd_sxp_elt_l1/102-0104651-6494553) appears to be a “love it or hate it” anime, and one that I haven’t seen. And how did I almost forget [Akira](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00005MAM2/qid=1099149623/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-0104651-6494553?v=glance&s=dvd)? Being a movie, it’ll be a lot easier to just sit down and watch. You don’t even need knowledge of the manga.
There are very few episodic animes. _Cowboy Bebop_ is one of the closest ones, in my opinion, to being episodic. The thing to remember is that anime is just a production style. There are many, many genres and titles out there. I suggest heading over to [Anime on DVD](http://www.animeondvd.com) and checking out their recommended list and maybe post this post in the forums, specifically the DVD Recommendations & Must Buy Suggestions forum. Some personal suggestions, as it appears that you hate anything along the lines of _Pokemon_ (how do you feel about _Transformers_, the original 30-minute animated commerical?) and while I’m not sure about the second example, I can come up with some possibilities.
First, [Sorcerous Stabber Orphen](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00008DDWN/qid=1099149519/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-0104651-6494553?v=glance&s=dvd), titled just _Orphen_ in the United States. It’s a well-done fantasy anime. There’s [Key: The Metal Idol](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0001EFUHI/qid=1099149759/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-0104651-6494553?v=glance&s=dvd), which is rather weird but would be worth a shot. [Metropolis](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00005V4XG/qid=1099149946/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/102-0104651-6494553?v=glance&s=dvd) is another movie you might like. There’s the [Vampire Hunter D](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00004Y7JH/qid=1099150018/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-0104651-6494553?v=glance&s=dvd) and the [Vampire Hunter D - Bloodlust](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00005V1XW/qid=1099150018/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/102-0104651-6494553?v=glance&s=dvd) movies, both of which are great if you enjoyed the first _Blade_ movie or other things like that.
In any case, I highly suggest watching everything in Japanese with English subtitles (except for _Vampire Hunter D - Bloodlust_ as that was originally released in Japan with an English track and Japanese subtitles.) Some dubs are good (_Cowboy Bebop_), some (like _Orphen_’s) are really bad, but in my experience it’s better to learn how to read subtitles.
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### Author:  [@Brainiac4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brainiac4)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2004, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-to-like-anime/272010/6 "2004-10-30T15:36:04Z")
> [@pung](#):
>
> I’m also not too fond of anime though I’ve found that I love anything directed by Hayao Miyazaki. [http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0594503/](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0594503/)
>
> Nearly all of his movies are brilliant.
>
> But you’re sure to like:
> Spirited Away (won the Oscar for best animated picture)
> Princess Mononoke
>
> I think Disney is releasing Porco Rosso (aka Crimson Pig) and My Neighbour Totoro in the US soon (Fox released a horribly dubbed Fullscreen version of Totoro on DVD, avoid it at all costs!).
Miyazaki is indeed brilliant. I don’t care for **Princess Mononoke** myself – the animation is not up to the standard of some of his other work, and the story is depresssing – but I can recommend the others. In particular, **Kiki’s Delivery Service** is a great movie. And **Spirited Away** is simply amazing – better than the vast majority of the Disney catalog.
The Disney redub of \*\*Totoro \*\*is better (and widescreen, yay), but the Fox dub was not bad. In addition to that and **Porco Rosso** , they’re also releasing **Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind**. All of them look and sound great, at least on the VHS preview copies I managed to snag (:D).
Oh, and don’t forget **Castle in the Sky**. Rare boy hero in a Miyazaki film.
The one I’m really looking forward to, though, is **Howl’s Moving Castle**. No release date for the US yet that I can find… ☹
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### Author:  [@Brainiac4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brainiac4)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2004, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-to-like-anime/272010/7 "2004-10-30T15:39:18Z")
And how the crap could I forget **Castle of Cagliostro**? :smack: Not only is it a Miyazaki film, it’s a great action-comedy, part of the long-running Lupin III series/franchise. It’s at the Pink Panther level of comedic action.
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### Author:  [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2004, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-to-like-anime/272010/8 "2004-10-30T15:39:39Z")
> [@Brainiac4](#):
>
> **Ninja Scroll** is older but great – historical/fantastic ninja story, with super-bad-ninjas with amazing powers.
I’ve thought for years that the few releases in the United States before DVD really took off (and also the anime market) were not helpful for people to learn to like anime. I specifically left _Ninja Scroll_ off my list because it is really violent, sexual, with a hard to follow plot. Now, I have nothing against violence or sexuality, but it’s just too much for me to enjoy. Plus the problems I have with the plot.
Plot problems are the same reason I generally don’t recommend _Ghost in the Shell_ or _Akira_. The OP is slightly different, saying that he’s looking for cyberpunk and such, but too often those three movies are brought up as suggestions, and they are generally bad ones to make for someone starting out.
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### Author:  [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2004, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-to-like-anime/272010/9 "2004-10-30T15:47:55Z")
I’ve never been a big fan of anime, but there’s a series I like (and the first two seasons are on Adult Swim now). It’s Detective Conan (Japanese title)/Case Closed (American title) The premise that sets up the show is kind of dumb, admittedly. There’s this teenage detective who stumbles across this criminal organization, and they give him a pill that’s supposed to kill him, but instead turns him into a 6 year old kid. So, he changes his identity and manages to move in with his girlfriend and her father, who is a professional detective. He then helps the detective solve crimes while keeping secret that he’s not just a little kid.
While the set up is, as I’ve mentioned, dumb, the show takes place in modern day Tokyo, there are no giant robots, no mysterious creatures battling, no ghosts or demons, and every episode is pretty much self contained, even though the show has a bunch of two-parters.
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### Author:  [@Brainiac4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brainiac4)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2004, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-to-like-anime/272010/10 "2004-10-30T15:57:22Z")
> [@asterion](#):
>
> I’ve thought for years that the few releases in the United States before DVD really took off (and also the anime market) were not helpful for people to learn to like anime. I specifically left _Ninja Scroll_ off my list because it is really violent, sexual, with a hard to follow plot. Now, I have nothing against violence or sexuality, but it’s just too much for me to enjoy. Plus the problems I have with the plot.
>
> Plot problems are the same reason I generally don’t recommend _Ghost in the Shell_ or _Akira_. The OP is slightly different, saying that he’s looking for cyberpunk and such, but too often those three movies are brought up as suggestions, and they are generally bad ones to make for someone starting out.
Agreed. You’ll note that I left \*\*Akira \*\*off entirely and qualified **GitS**. I do really like **Ninja Scroll** , but should have disclaimed the adult nature of the content. And in retrospect, should have left it off entirely, as it’s not cyberpunkish at all.
Recorder, please strike it from the record. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, please disregard that testimony.
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### Author:  [@stately\_plump\_buck\_mulligan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stately_plump_buck_mulligan)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2004, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-to-like-anime/272010/11 "2004-10-30T16:07:01Z")
**Hellsing** follows in the vein [HAR HAR] of Vamp Hunter D. A group called the Royal Order of Religious Knights hunt down some chip-implanted vampires that go apeshat. It’s violent, sometimes silly and hella fun.
**Berserk** is an epic horror-fantasy tale which I will do a hideous injustice by even attempting to summarize. It’s a manga-turned-anime series, and both media have been built upon for years and years and years - it’s still not finished yet, and the storyline is sprawling and intricate as they come. It’s extremely violent and dark and carries some truly disturbing themes - even just reading the first two volumes of the manga caused me to interject “ohhh, SHIT!” many-a time. But it is a masterpiece.
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### Author:  [@Brainiac4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brainiac4)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2004, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-to-like-anime/272010/12 "2004-10-30T16:22:43Z")
Not to be a downer, but I really disliked Berserk. I picked it up on the strength of multiple recommendations, but just could not get into it. The animation was more on the Dragonball Z end of things – rougher instead of cleaner – and the story was not grabbing me.
My recommendation above would have saved me, by the way – getting it from Netflix first would have left me $19 richer and with a tiny bit more shelf space.
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### Author:  [@stately\_plump\_buck\_mulligan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stately_plump_buck_mulligan)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2004, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-to-like-anime/272010/13 "2004-10-30T16:31:29Z")
Yeah, definitely rent before you buy for Berserk. I love it and everyone I know who’s been exposed to it has loved it, but it’s definitely not for everyone. If the storyline doesn’t grab you then there isn’t much by way of visuals to entice you into coming back for more.
But if the storyline does grab you… hold on to your manties.
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### Author:  [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2004, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-to-like-anime/272010/14 "2004-10-30T16:34:36Z")
I’m someone who should like anime but I don’t. I have not liked any anime that I have seen so far. I appreciate the well informed comments in this thread, I have never heard of some of these movies/shows. I’m going to use some of the suggestions and track down some of these titles. Maybe I haven’t seen the right ones yet.
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### Author:  [@Gadfly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadfly)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2004, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-to-like-anime/272010/15 "2004-10-30T17:18:40Z")
When come back, watch Trigun.
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2004, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-to-like-anime/272010/16 "2004-10-30T18:04:07Z")
I understand where **continuity eror** is coming from. Mixed in with the cool anime is stuff that is totally ridiculous. Even among the stuff I like, some of the cliches of anime (like the stupid facial expressions) can drive me nuts. Count me as another in the _Cowboy Bebop_ camp. At worst, it’s the second best series I’ve seen, and I think it fits what the OP is looking for. Great style, great music, well-drawn, and the ending just floored me. Even on multiple viewings.
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### Author:  [@Brainiac4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brainiac4)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2004, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-to-like-anime/272010/17 "2004-10-30T19:34:27Z")
> [@Marley23](#):
>
> I understand where **continuity eror** is coming from. Mixed in with the cool anime is stuff that is totally ridiculous. Even among the stuff I like, some of the cliches of anime (like the stupid facial expressions) can drive me nuts.
The wacky facial expressions (aka the shifts in style) have grown on me. I originally found them to be completely offputting, but now I (sometimes) like them. Even some Western animation uses them – Teen Titans, for example, although that one is deliberately anime in style.
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### Author:  [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2004, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-to-like-anime/272010/18 "2004-10-30T19:37:56Z")
With all those naked 12s-year-old girls and Tentacled Monsters[sup]TM[/sup], what’s not to love?
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2004, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-to-like-anime/272010/19 "2004-10-30T19:38:31Z")
> [@Brainiac4](#):
>
> The wacky facial expressions (aka the shifts in style) have grown on me. I originally found them to be completely offputting, but now I (sometimes) like them. Even some Western animation uses them – Teen Titans, for example, although that one is deliberately anime in style.
Eh, it’s just never done it for me… I’ve watched a few minutes of Teen Titans, but I’ve found I can’t deal with it because they do those faces _so much_- more than any anime I can think of offhand.
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### Author:  [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2004, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-learn-to-like-anime/272010/20 "2004-10-30T19:43:48Z")
Help me learn to see Japanimation as anything more than, at its most artistic, ephebophilic psionic cartoon porn.
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