# Help Me Pick a Venereal Disease **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 27, 2006, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-pick-a-venereal-disease/350088 "2006-03-27T15:14:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-pick-a-venereal-disease/350088/1 "2006-03-27T15:14:51Z")
I’m currently in the midst of writing a novel set in the Tudor age, and in the story, one of my female characters gets a venereal disease. Not being much familiar with the subject myself, I thought I’d ask for help in picking the right one. Restrictions: 1. It has to be a disease which was extant in that time. 2. She gets pregnant by the man who gave it to her, but it \*doesn’t \*affect the baby. 3. There has to be clear, physical signs that she has the illness (as in sores, or something along those lines.) The man would also know he had it. 4. I don’t care if it would eventually be fatal, as she dies within a year of other causes. Any suggestions? ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-pick-a-venereal-disease/350088/2 "2006-03-27T15:34:12Z")
[Emily Latella] What’s this I hear about Bill Clinton playing Tudor Sex? He was on a show with that nice Mr. Letterman and he started demonstrating Tudor Sex? Why, he should be ashamed. He should… “Uh, Miss Latella, that’s “Tenor Sax.” Mr. Clinton was playing the Tenor Saxaphone.” Oh, well that’s different. Never mind. [/Emily Latella] ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-pick-a-venereal-disease/350088/3 "2006-03-27T15:43:08Z")
[See you at the buffet](http://bau2.uibk.ac.at/sg/python/Scripts/ContractualObligations/MedicalLove)! > [@](#): > > Inflammation of the foreskin > Reminds me of your smile > I’ve had balanital chancroids > For quite a little while > I gave my heart to NSU > That lovely night in June > I ache for you, my darling, > And I hope you’ll get well soon ---
**Author:** ![Dragwyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dragwyr/32/2855_2.png) [@Dragwyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragwyr)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-pick-a-venereal-disease/350088/4 "2006-03-27T19:56:13Z")
Syphilis was very prevalent during those times. According to [medicinenet.com](http://medicinenet.com) ([http://www.medicinenet.com/syphilis\_in\_women/page2.htm#2whatare](http://www.medicinenet.com/syphilis_in_women/page2.htm#2whatare)) the symptoms for women are: [quote] There are three stages of syphilis. Formation of the chancre is the first stage. It is highly contagious and can last from 1 to 5 weeks. The infection can be transmitted from any contact with one of the ulcers, which are teeming with spirochetes. If the ulcer is outside of the vagina or on the scrotum of the male partner, the use of condoms may not help in preventing transmission of the infection. Likewise, if the ulcer is in the mouth, merely kissing the infected individual can spread syphilis. With most women, an early infection resolves on its own even without treatment. However, 25% will proceed to the next stage of the infection called “secondary” syphilis, which lasts from 4 to 6 weeks. This secondary stage can include hair loss, sore throat, white patches in the nose, mouth, and vagina, fever, headaches, and a skin rash. There can be lesions on the genitals that look like genital warts but are caused by spirochetes rather than the wart virus. These wart-like lesions, as well as the skin rash, are highly contagious. The rash can occur on the palms of the hands and the infection can be transmitted by casual contact. The third stage of the infection involves the brain and heart and is usually no longer contagious. At this point, however, the infection can cause extensive damage to the internal organs, such as the brain, and can lead to death." Hope this helps. ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-pick-a-venereal-disease/350088/5 "2006-03-27T20:04:40Z")
I believe syphilis would be bad news for the baby, though. There was an Anne Perry novel that revolved around that point. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-pick-a-venereal-disease/350088/6 "2006-03-28T03:03:05Z")
I second the recommendation for syphilis (known to Tudors as “the pox” or “the French disease”). A bit of Googling suggests that pregnant women with untreated syphilis have a 40% chance of a stillbirth, and if the baby survives there’s a 40-70% chance it will be infected, so, while the odds are against the baby being healthy, it’s not too improbable to be believable. ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-pick-a-venereal-disease/350088/7 "2006-03-28T11:08:08Z")
Yup- if you want something with symptoms, Syphilis is pretty much your only option. Herpes would be the other possibilty, but I’m not aware of whether that was common in the 1500s. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-pick-a-venereal-disease/350088/8 "2006-03-28T11:46:01Z")
Apparently King Henry VIII had syphilis: The well known theory that he suffered from syphilis was first promoted approximately 100 years after his death. More recent support for this idea has come from a greater understanding of the disease and has led to the suggestion that Edward VI, Mary I, and Elizabeth I all displayed symptoms characteristic of congenital syphilis. > **[Henry VIII](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_VIII_of_England)** > > Henry VIII (28 June 1491 – 28 January 1547) was King of England from 22 April 1509 until his death in 1547. Henry is best known for his six marriages, including his efforts to have his first marriage (to Catherine of Aragon) annulled. His disagreement with Pope Clement VII about such an annulment led Henry to initiate the English Reformation, separating the Church of England from papal authority. He appointed himself Supreme Head of the Church of England and dissolved convents and monasteries... ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-pick-a-venereal-disease/350088/9 "2006-03-28T18:13:57Z")
> [@irishgirl](#): > > ``` > Yup- if you want something with symptoms, Syphilis is pretty much your only option. > > ``` > > Herpes would be the other possibilty, but I’m not aware of whether that was common in the 1500s. Herpes would probably be better, since I want the man who gave it to her to live for an additional twenty years without being debilitated. I did some research and found that herpes existed as far back as 2,500 BC. This may be my solution. > [@glee](#): > > Apparently King Henry VIII had syphilis: > > The well known theory that he suffered from syphilis was first promoted approximately 100 years after his death. More recent support for this idea has come from a greater understanding of the disease and has led to the suggestion that Edward VI, Mary I, and Elizabeth I all displayed symptoms characteristic of congenital syphilis. > > [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry\_VIII\_of\_England](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_VIII_of_England) I disagree heartily with that assesment. Firstly, Henry’s medical records (which survive in great detail) show no mercury treatments, which were the primary means of treatment for syphillis at the time. Secondly, Edward died of tuberculosis, and Mary died of what was most likely uterine cancer. Elizabeth was apparently as healthy as a horse. ---
**Author:** ![Beltane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aca169/32.png) [@Beltane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beltane)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-pick-a-venereal-disease/350088/10 "2006-03-28T18:23:37Z")
I would recommend against syphyllus (from Wikipeida) > [@](#): > > The epidemiology of the first syphilis epidemic indicates that the disease was either new or a mutated form of an earlier disease. The disease swept across Europe from the early epicenter at Naples. The early form was much more virulent than the disease of today, the incubation period was shorter, only a few months, and the symptoms were more severe. In addition, the disease was more frequently fatal than it is today. By 1546, the disease had evolved into the form we know now. From what I remember reading (in Guns Germs and Steel- I don’t have the quote handy) it was not unusual to have sores over a huger percentage of ones body. ---
**Author:** ![Beltane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aca169/32.png) [@Beltane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beltane)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-pick-a-venereal-disease/350088/11 "2006-03-28T18:25:08Z")
> [@Beltane](#): > > I would recommend against syphyllus. Of course she could be one of the first few people to be infected with this “new disease” ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-pick-a-venereal-disease/350088/12 "2006-03-28T18:41:01Z")
> [@irishgirl](#): > > Yup- if you want something with symptoms, Syphilis is pretty much your only option. Anyone need a good sig line 😉 ( sorry **irishgirl** ) ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Clam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3bc359/32.png) [@Happy\_Clam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Clam)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-pick-a-venereal-disease/350088/13 "2006-03-28T21:58:49Z")
Syphillis also has been known to cause mental instability/madness, so that might be helpful or unhelpful in the plot. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slip\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f475e1/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slip\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slip_1)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-pick-a-venereal-disease/350088/14 "2006-03-28T23:02:35Z")
> [@Lissa](#): > > I’m currently in the midst of writing a novel set in the Tudor age, and in the story, one of my female characters gets a venereal disease. Not being much familiar with the subject myself, I thought I’d ask for help in picking the right one. > > Restrictions: > > 1. It has to be a disease which was extant in that time. > > 2. She gets pregnant by the man who gave it to her, but it \*doesn’t \*affect the baby. > > 3. There has to be clear, physical signs that she has the illness (as in sores, or something along those lines.) The man would also know he had it. > > 4. I don’t care if it would eventually be fatal, as she dies within a year of other causes. > > Any suggestions? What about the good ol’ stand-by gonorrhea? It’s been around since Biblical times. It is easily transmitted by sexual intercourse and has clear (and unpleasant) symptomatology. While there is maternal-neonatal transmission (including death from sepsis), the baby has a sporting chance of being delivered without infection. ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2006, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-pick-a-venereal-disease/350088/15 "2006-03-29T00:24:09Z")
Gonnorrhoea is rarely symptomatic in women. Not the best bet. Plus, it causes infertility and PID (which the OP doesn’t want) and while in utero infection is rare, delivery through an infected cervix leads to neonatal conjunctivitis, which, in the days before antibiotics, would have almost certainly lead to the child being blinded. Herpes would be better- obvious symptoms, not hugely debilitating, and unless the woman has an active infection during childbirth, unlikely to cause harm to the baby. ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2006, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-pick-a-venereal-disease/350088/16 "2006-03-29T00:45:38Z")
**Bippy the Beardless** - that was the sentence I came up with after rejecting the very Irish “if you want something with symptoms, Syphilis is your only man” as sounding far too much like a double entendre! ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2006, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-pick-a-venereal-disease/350088/17 "2006-03-29T04:48:00Z")
Another option would be condyloma accuminatum (venereal warts). They can be really, really ugly, but are fairly harmless (at least compared to most venereal diseases). ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2006, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-pick-a-venereal-disease/350088/18 "2006-03-29T08:10:01Z")
> [@irishgirl](#): > > Herpes would be better- obvious symptoms, not hugely debilitating, and unless the woman has an active infection during childbirth, unlikely to cause harm to the baby. The story is that the girl has sex with this man once, and is infected and impregnated by this single encounter. Would her infection be active in nine months? ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2006, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-pick-a-venereal-disease/350088/19 "2006-03-29T14:02:10Z")
Herpes can be transmitted even if the infected partner has no symptoms. It has an incubation period of something like 2-7 days and an outbreak will last about a week. The first outbreak is the worst, but someone can have lots of subsequent outbreaks, or only that once. A person is likely to have an outbreak of genital herpes when they’re stressed, ill or their immune system is compromised, you can safely assume than anyone who survived into adulthood in the 1500s had a damn strong immune system! They will, however, always be infectious, even if they are asymptomatic. Viral warts are usually only infective when the partner is symptomatic and can be dormant for several months to years. So, if you want her pregnant and infected with one encounter and to show symptoms immediately, but deliver a healthy baby, herpes would be the better option IMO.