I started a general discussion thread for PC Gaming over in the game room:
PC Gaming general discussion (Gaming PCs, game sales, news, etc…)
iBuyPower is an established independent system builder. I’d say they’re mid-range; if you told PC people you bought a system from them, they wouldn’t cringe and wouldn’t be envious. But things happen and I think they happen more often when these system builders sell prebuilts through retail channels versus building a customized system because they’re just churning them out. Sucks that your son got burned on a badly built/tuned system.
That local computer repair shop I mentioned that diagnosed the bad RAM stick on his computer 4 years ago were so friendly and helpful back then, I’m wondering if, rather than send this computer back, it might be worth it to have them check it out. It might just be a simple software tune-up issue or something. As knowledgeable as my son is with computers, he has little patience for proper troubleshooting.
Does that seem like a good idea for a new computer out of the box? Would it possibly void the warranty if they had to open it up to check out the parts??
The GPU being pegged at 100% and slow response times from Windows sounds like a software issue more than hardware. That said, just opening the case doesn’t typically void the warranty (no promises though) since there’s sometimes shipping foam and stuff in there to protect it in transit and some computers actually ship with the GPU in a separate box so it doesn’t fall out in the mail. But it’s unlikely that anyone is just going to look at the GPU physically and say “Well, here’s your problem…” for an issue that like. Maybe if it was overheating you’d check the cooling and fans but I don’t know what you’d check for 100% usage.
Depending on your work flow, Nvidia may still have an advantage: CUDA for General Purpose GPU calculation, including AI or math-intensive workloads. AFAIK, AMD’s equivalent is less supported.
Thanks for pointing that out. I’d hoped to skip having to think about a power supply. This will be running 24/7 for the next 5 years, so it’s worth getting an efficient power supply.
I was excited for this one, but it turns out to be a mini-ITX case, and mini-ITX boards for the 5700G are all very expensive, and don’t have all the features I want.
Right now I’m trying to decide between the CoolerMaster Silencio S400 and the Fractal Designs Meshify C. They’re bigger than I want or need, but still smaller than the chunkster I currently have.
At the moment I mostly use the GPU for video encoding, and ffmpeg supports AMD’s AMF encoders. What I need is the ability to re-encode something quickly after I make edits, and then I can upload it to Youtube and let Google spend their time encoding for size and quailty, while I move on to the next video.
As far as I can tell, actually purchasable “small case + low power PSU” combos – ones that actually show up as in stock and with a price on Newegg and/or PCPartPicker – all come with either unrated or Bronze psu’s at best. So I think Fractal was indeed bragging about its bronze rating.
But the fractal psu is 450W, and 450W is big enough that you can actually buy 450W SFF PSUs separately, like with a selection of brands and ratings. Less than 450W is such a niche that there’s no profit so nobody makes or sells them. Thus the low-rated low-wattage psus that come with combo deals all seem to be trash.
After watching the following video, I am super enthusiastic about how adorably tiny these “console killer” mini-PCs are:
Who’s a cute little PC? You are!
So it looks like the 5700G only needs a 150W power supply as demonstrated in the video, reaching like 137W or so at 100% load on both the CPU and APU during benchmarks. 88W during gaming.
But as established, 450W is the minimum purchasable PSU that doesn’t suck. (I found a good-brand platinum-rated 450W SFF, in fact. And there are many Golds to choose from.) So there’s no reason to limit yourself to combo deals.
For my build I prioritized silence, and one of the ways I did that was to overbuy the PSU. PCPartPicker told me my total power usage would be around 384W so I got a 750W Platinum psu from Seasonic. PSUs have fans that kick on during heavy load, so my idea was to overspec the psu enough that it will never experience heavy load so in theory the fan should never turn on. (AFAICT, it never has. Success!) The platinum rating makes me feel better about its efficiency running at something like 25% load when not gaming.
What features should I be looking for (for you) on the motherboard? I have to be honest, I love that cute little computer in the video and don’t want to give up on it quite yet.
(Also, regarding the Meshify C, love it but if I were getting a case that size I would get the newer Meshify 2 Compact instead.)
One other thing I found yesterday while researching is that the next generation AMD integrated graphics should be available for purchase in the first half of 2022. Supposed to be a big jump in graphical capability. Can you wait that long? Could be as little as 3 to 4 months…
EDIT: Also, every single B550 motherboard I checked (including the gigabyte one you linked) throws red flags in PCPartPicker when paired with the 5700G. They all say that the BIOS needs to be updated to run the 5700G. And then multiple reviews of different motherboards on Newegg (the customer feedback) say that they had to plug in a different chip to update the BIOS before the 5700G could run.
Something to be aware of that might not be an issue for next generation in a few months.
I know, right? Once I started buying powerful micro-PCs for people, I knew it needed to be the end of giant towers for me.
The things I need are DisplayPort or HDMI 2 or whatever to do dual 4k (you’d think you wouldn’t have to specify that, but have you seen some of the stuff from HP?); two M.2 slots for NVMe sticks; and 4 DIMM slots. It’s the 4 DIMM slots that makes mini ITX so hard.
The problem is I already have 2x16GB, and I’m worried 32GB won’t be enough for me. If I was starting from scratch, I’d just get 2x32GB and not worry about it, but $150 of RAM is a lot to sit in a desk drawer.
From the case, all I need is room for one 3.5 inch internal drive. I could go to dual 2.5 inch drives, but I already have piles of 3.5 inch drives, and I only need one for big slow, storage.
That Meshify 2 Compact looks good, but somehow they can squeeze an ATX board into the same space as the Meshify C’s micro-ATX.
Yeah, I was worried about that, but Gigabyte, I think MSI, and maybe some others have the ability to upgrade the BIOS without a CPU. Crazy times we live in!
I, too, prefer to keep noise down, but now days I just have a DisplayPort and USB cable running to my desk, and the computer is far enough away that the noise doesn’t bother me. Of course, some monster with 5 whining fans could still be a problem. A little one would let me put it up on a shelf, or someplace else out of the way and the computer switches from a big tower “furniture” to an ignored nick-nack.
So my son managed to reset his hard drive and box it back up, and the return process with NewEgg seemed pretty straightforward-- it generated a printable UPS return label, so free return shipping, and looks like it will refund the full amount. I had read some cautionary tales about NewEgg returns online from around 2019, like exorbitant restocking fees and such, but maybe they’ve taken a page from the Amazon playbook.
When he was resetting his hard drive I got my first look at the computer and I have to say it (the computer itself) was an impressive sight-- the machine was glass on 3 sides and had 4 RGB fans just cycling rainbow colors like Disneyland on acid in a box. But I also saw the problems-- the computer seemed fast for brief moments, then would freeze up for long seconds, then the screen would just go black for a long time (30 seconds? a full minute?) before coming back on. I said it before, the kid really has some bad luck with computers.
I think now he is convinced to go to Micro Center to get the same computer I got, which he should have done in the first place. My computer is working flawlessly; even when i dabble in gaming with a bunch of other programs open, it handles everything.
I guess I’m now turning this thread into ‘help my son spec out a new gaming PC’ 
Oh that doesn’t seem right. Just like my saga with the Dell above, when a brand new computer is behaving like that, it’s time to send it back. Maybe it’s overheating, maybe it really is a software or driver problem, maybe something is loose? Why is that you’re problem? If they can’t build it right, you shouldn’t have to own it.
(Also, after reading your other thread, I think save the “I told you so” for here, where you’ll get a sympathetic ear, and just be excited for your son when he finally does get something that works. The lesson isn’t “listen to Dad,” it’s sometimes things don’t go the way we hope, and we can be disappointed, but then we have to take a breath and figure out the next step. I deal with these kind of things with my daughter. She’s only 8, so the stakes are lower, but the frustration meltdowns are all too familiar.)
I think you said you know Microcenter, so maybe this isn’t news to you, but it may save some stress. I’ve never been myself, but I’ve been using their website for ideas, and it looks like stores list real time inventory for systems, and also have a the ability to reserve a system for pickup.
Does anybody remember the days of strip mall PC stores that would sell custom built systems? Browsing Computer Shopper for the best price on 1MB DIMMS?
Well, now we know with hindsight that the CPU can handle up to 3200 RAM, so if I were him I’d swap out the RAM that comes with it for 4 sticks of 8GB DDR4 3200.
I’d also grab a 2.5" SSD for a data drive, similar to how you did. I still don’t love QLC drives, though. I’d try to stick to TLC. With the price difference, he should be able to get your same system with 32 GB of 3200 RAM and a 1 TB data drive for less than the iBuyPower system. Or 2 TB if you go QLC. (Double the size but 1/3rd the lifespan.)
Ignoring size, I like the Silencio a lot. And it is pretty small, though a bit wide.
Here are the potential cases I found, including the Meshify C Mini and Cooler Master Silencio S400, sorted roughly smallest to largest:
| Price | Micro ATX Tower Cases (mATX) | Release | Width | Height | Depth |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| $82.99 | InWin BL631 | Sep 2021 | 3.80" | 13.00" | 16.10" |
| $95.59 | In Win 301 | Aug 2021 | 7.40" | 14.30" | 14.60" |
| $39.98 | Fractal Design Core 1000 | Apr 2013 | 6.89" | 13.98" | 16.54" |
| $59.99 | Cooler Master MasterBox E300L | Jun 2018 | 7.09" | 14.33" | 17.64" |
| $138.69 | SilverStone SST-LD01B | May 2021 | 8.27" | 14.72" | 15.16" |
| $99.79 | SilverStone SST-PS07B | Oct 2018 | 8.27" | 14.73" | 15.75" |
| $69.99 | Cooler Master N200 | Apr 2013 | 7.90" | 14.90" | 17.50" |
| $113.99 | Cooler Master Silencio S400 | Sep 2021 | 8.27" | 16.46" | 16.06" |
| $89.99 | Fractal Meshify C Mini | Mar 2018 | 8.54" | 16.22" | 16.26" |
| Price | Home Theater PC Cases (HTPC) | Release | Width | Height | Depth |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| My cable box | 13.25" | 2.75" | 9.75" | ||
| $93.65 | In-Win CK709 | Feb 2020 | 12.90" | 3.70" | 11.10" |
| $89.65 | In Win CJ712 | Dec 2019 | 14.20" | 5.80" | 13.30" |
| $93.21 | Silverstone Milo ML03B | Oct 2018 | 17.32" | 4.13" | 13.39" |
| $93.21 | Silverstone Milo ML04B | Oct 2018 | 17.32" | 4.10" | 13.78" |
All the In Win’s come with a power supply, and reviewer comments complain about them dying frequently (one guy said 5 had died on him in 3 years) and a couple also mentioned them lighting on fire and/or destroying every component in their system. So I wouldn’t go with an In Win psu. However, I think the cases themselves have potential. Swap out for a nice Gold-rated psu and you’d be good to go.
I particularly like the size of the In Win CK709, which unfortunately doesn’t appear at all on PCPartPicker but is available for purchase on NewEgg. That thing is truly tiny. It may very well be the smallest possible case a Micro ATX motherboard could fit into. Any interest? Looks like a nightmare to build in, of course. But man, it is pretty much the same size as the Mini ITX system in the video above. It’s actually smaller than the Fractal Node 202 Mini ITX, for example, which is 14.84" wide x 3.46" tall x 13.07" deep. The CK709 is 2 inches less both wide and deep and only a quarter inch taller. And it fits a Micro ATX!
The almost-as-small alternative I’m liking is CJ712, which is essentially the same box but a couple inches wider and longer and also taller, meaning more cooler options.
Speaking of coolers, what are you thinking for cooling? Liquid or air?
Thanks! I did look into curbside pickup, but our Micro Center does not offer that. Not sure about reservations, but I’m making a requirement to my son that he needs to go into the store and ask a salesperson for what he wants. Heck, I might want to check out some ultrawide 4K monitors… 
Thanks, but one area he can manage himself is deciding what rig he wants on his own, so I will leave that to him and not make any recommendations. When he first was going to go to Micro Center it wasn’t on my recommendation, he saw my G509 and recognized a great deal. He already has a 5TB external drive so I think he’s good for storage.
I actually wouldn’t be surprised if, despite the great sale price on G509s right now, he goes and gets the next best build just to one-up me 
Correction: The CJ712 (Newegg link) is the same size as the CK709. The amazon listing must be talking about the size of the box it comes in.
Why not 16x2 and have 2 slots open to expand later?
Sure. I may have mistakenly assumed that two 16 GB sticks would be more expensive than four 8s.
64 GB seems like overkill for this current generation, I think. At that point I’d probably wait for DDR5.
RAM is more about software than hardware. Who knows what software 2-3 years from now will require and why limit yourself if you don’t need to.
And as an example, corsair Vengence non-RGB has the 2x16 $16 cheaper than 4x8
Well shoot, it never occurred to me they’d be cheaper the bigger you got. That does kind of make it a no-brainer.
I think it’s because the cost difference in 8gb vs 16gb is comparable to 2 dimms vs 4 dimms.