# Help me understand "Gay Pride"? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 7, 2019, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670 "2019-07-07T14:34:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/61 "2019-07-08T12:32:56Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > In the “wild” that’s called life, and the “prize” is you don’t die that day. Living another day isn’t an accomplishment. We aren’t in the “wild.” That’s the whole point of civilization: it’s an environment where most random threats that exist in the “wild” have been eliminated or banished to a safe distance, and survival and continuity from one day to the next is the norm. When a dominant group creates a plethora of random threats for some other group, thereby undermining that expectation of safety and continuity, that’s a rupturing of the social contract. Both having to survive in a more stigmatized and threat-filled environment that the rest of us don’t have to deal with, and forcing the larger society to face up to having condoned that environment and then do something about it, are things that are worthy of pride. Hell yeah. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/62 "2019-07-08T12:46:59Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > If you are trying to prove it’s nothing shameful then you are still in a sense ashamed of it. The Pride celebrated in June is, to me, trying too hard. Do you view other events as “trying too hard?” Like for example, one could say there’s something someone is trying to prove with these sorts of events: - Trump speeches - Fourth of July - Valentine’s Day - Birthdays - Christmas - The Super Bowl - Graduations (high school, college) The reason I ask is that I’m not sure if you’re annoyed by the spectacle of gay people being very public with their orientation, or if you’re of the curmudgeonly sort that would generally oppose activities involving more than a handful of people. (I’m sort of kidding, but you get the drift.) ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/63 "2019-07-08T12:58:23Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Do you view other events as “trying too hard?” > > Like for example, one could say there’s something someone is trying to prove with these sorts of events: > > - Trump speeches > - Fourth of July > - Valentine’s Day > - Birthdays > - Christmas > - The Super Bowl > - Graduations (high school, college) > > The reason I ask is that I’m not sure if you’re annoyed by the spectacle of gay people being very public with their orientation, or if you’re of the curmudgeonly sort that would generally oppose activities involving more than a handful of people. (I’m sort of kidding, but you get the drift.) All of those things sound thoroughly repulsive, barring Christmas, which gives everyone time of work. Certainly i can’t think of a more damning indictment of the gay pride parade than that they are just an excuse for a party. Perhaps the divide here is less between homophobes and non homophobes, and not between the party people and the non party people. As for pride, it famously goeth before a fall, Americans, and homosexuals, and people with academic and professional success. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/64 "2019-07-08T13:29:17Z")
If the thought of birthdays is repulsive, maybe you ought’a change the way you have them. I like to celebrate mine by taking a day off work; this year I celebrated my Dad’s by going to visit the kind of place which I know he would have liked. Something doesn’t have to include a lot of noise to be a celebration. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/65 "2019-07-08T14:00:16Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > I came out in 1963. Back then, there was no such thing as gay pride, only gay shame. I admitted openly that I had “homosexual feelings” but was ashamed of those feelings. To embrace them would have been unthinkable back then. Nobody in the world was saying it was ok to be gay. Nobody. When we met in bars (the only place we could meet), we ran the risk of being harrassed, beaten, arrested, publicly shamed, losing our family, our jobs, even our lives… just for sitting in a bar. > > Today, we have an openly gay man running for president, and an openly gay woman leading a sports team to international victories. And we recently celebrated by the millions, in cities around the world. > > Just in my own lifetime we have overcome so much. Though we still have a long way to go, we have so much to celebrate and be proud of. My nephew came out publicly, loud and proud, in a facebook post. He has received loving support, and I am proud to live in a society where he was unashamed to do so. I am glad that our society has advanced to this point, and that you are here to experience it! ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/66 "2019-07-08T14:00:17Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > Then you fundamentally miss the point, by over analysing your own interpretation of the word pride. Gay Pride isn’t some meek celebration, it’s a protest. It’s about coming out from the shadows, owning the streets and telling all the bigots they can fuck off. Scuse my language, but it’s that really. It’s about shoving our gayness down your throat, to be frank. It’s a challenge to the world to deny us our rights and our place in society. We’re here, we’re queer and you better get used to it. And finally, it’s about us, not you. It’s not an emotional appeal to you. > > THAT’S gay pride. It’s a party. The reality is you’re here you’re queer but they don’t have to get used to it. It’s asking permission from a society that hates you if you can exist, like other social rallies. It’s not a challenge. To me it looks like a child crying until mommy gives in. The world and society doesn’t owe us anything. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/67 "2019-07-08T14:07:29Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > The reality is you’re here you’re queer but they don’t have to get used to it. Actually, they do. Gay people openly proclaiming their identity and insisting on their rights, as a group and over time, does in fact result in society as a whole “getting used to” the realization that gay people are a normal part of society. Any one individual can stubbornly refused to get used to the existence of gay people, of course, but we’re talking a shift in the entire culture here. If you believe that gay people visibly pushing back against homophobia hasn’t led to massive reduction of homophobia in the larger society, you’re kidding yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/68 "2019-07-08T14:09:19Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > We aren’t in the “wild.” That’s the whole point of civilization: it’s an environment where most random threats that exist in the “wild” have been eliminated or banished to a safe distance, and survival and continuity from one day to the next is the norm. > > When a dominant group creates a plethora of random threats for some other group, thereby undermining that expectation of safety and continuity, that’s a rupturing of the social contract. > > Both having to survive in a more stigmatized and threat-filled environment that the rest of us don’t have to deal with, and forcing the larger society to face up to having condoned that environment and then do something about it, are things that are worthy of pride. Hell yeah. Again no they aren’t. It’s similar to living in the wild, except nature is less forgiving than man and you can’t appeal to it at all. I would be willing to admit that living out there is something to take pride on, but in reality it isn’t. Newborn ducks usually get winnowed after the first couple days, same with other young. Honestly animals have it harder than gays. See the thing is that society doesn’t have to do anything about it. It’s not like gays were a large enough population that what happened to them really mattered. It’s not so much forcing them so much as just being a child with a tantrum. You aren’t toppling some oppressive system and rewriting reality, you’re asking mom and dad if you can play with the other kids. You’re trying to rationalize an emotion that is rooted in nonsense, like the bigots hatred. The reality is that they’re just hating other humans, not whatever they believe gays to be. But I guess it’s another excuse to throw a parry and everyone can pat themselves on the back about how “far we have come” not seeing the reality around them. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/69 "2019-07-08T14:09:46Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > It’s a party. The reality is you’re here you’re queer but they don’t have to get used to it. It’s asking permission from a society that hates you if you can exist, like other social rallies. It’s not a challenge. To me it looks like a child crying until mommy gives in. The world and society doesn’t owe us anything. Whatever your opinion, the gay rights movement has been very successful in its goals – largely, acceptance and tolerance for gay people (even as there is more progress that needs to be made). Gay pride events are a part of that movement and have contributed to their success. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/70 "2019-07-08T14:11:25Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Actually, they do. Gay people openly proclaiming their identity and insisting on their rights, as a group and over time, does in fact result in society as a whole “getting used to” the realization that gay people are a normal part of society. > > Any one individual can stubbornly refused to get used to the existence of gay people, of course, but we’re talking a shift in the entire culture here. If you believe that gay people visibly pushing back against homophobia hasn’t led to massive reduction of homophobia in the larger society, you’re kidding yourself. Well it hasn’t. Not outside the public sphere anyway. I also wouldn’t call it getting used to it so much as let’s not isolate another potential source of revenue. It’s a form of rebellion that society permits because it’s profitable. But outside the parades nothing has really changed. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/71 "2019-07-08T14:12:50Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Whatever your opinion, the gay rights movement has been very successful in its goals – largely, acceptance and tolerance for gay people (even as there is more progress that needs to be made). Gay pride events are a part of that movement and have contributed to their success. I don’t think so. Pride parades tend to have the opposite effect. The true cause is people realizing how many they know personally, albeit by accident. Parades actually reinforce the view of gays as “other” to many. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/72 "2019-07-08T14:15:24Z")
So, Urbanredneck, you aren’t proud to be an American? Because it isn’t much of an accomplishment if you were born here. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/73 "2019-07-08T14:15:59Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > Well it hasn’t. Not outside the public sphere anyway. I also wouldn’t call it getting used to it so much as let’s not isolate another potential source of revenue. It’s a form of rebellion that society permits because it’s profitable. But outside the parades nothing has really changed. Polling shows that you’re incorrect – acceptance and tolerance of LGBTQ people has increased massively over the past couple of decades. > [@Machinaforce](#): > > I don’t think so. Pride parades tend to have the opposite effect. The true cause is people realizing how many they know personally, albeit by accident. Parades actually reinforce the view of gays as “other” to many. Again, according to polling, you are very wrong, and attitudes have shifted very positively in favor of LGBTQ tolerance and acceptance. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/74 "2019-07-08T14:17:53Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > But I guess it’s another excuse to throw a parry and everyone can pat themselves on the back about how “far we have come” not seeing the reality around them. And how many threads have you started questioning reality as you perceive it? Perhaps if they were Buddhists you would see it more clearly? You don’t have a realistic grasp of this issue and your proclamations about what gay people are doing and why they are doing it is laughably naive and myopic. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/75 "2019-07-08T14:21:14Z")
> [@Sigene](#): > > The OP may not live in a world where gay people are largely oppressed, murdered, downtrodden or resented and shamed. . The OP doesn’t live on Planet Earth? (And you can remove that “largely”. It doesn’t have to be an exact majority of everyone a person has to deal with for it to be a problem.) ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/76 "2019-07-08T14:21:45Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > Parades actually reinforce the view of gays as “other” to many. I don’t know about that… I think it does raise awareness that there’s a whole gay culture out there that is pretty foreign to most straight people, especially those without any/many close gay friends. As for the pride as opposite of shame idea; the way I conceive of it as a straight man, is that it’s akin to having something inherent about yourself that some may not like. You may be ugly, short, bald, fat, hairy, or something else that some may find to be a negative. Ultimately you have two choices- you can either be ashamed of yourself based on what others are saying about you, or you can give the world the finger and OWN whatever it is that those others are saying is bad about you. That’s what I understand Pride parades to be- gay people giving the rest of the world the finger and saying “I’m how I am, and I’m not going to be ashamed about it.” ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/77 "2019-07-08T14:22:03Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > I don’t think so. Pride parades tend to have the opposite effect. The true cause is people realizing how many they know personally, albeit by accident. Parades actually reinforce the view of gays as “other” to many. Wait wait wait… are you saying people should only celebrate religious parades if they happen to be part of the local majority? Instead of showing that “hey, we all love to celebrate / commemorate Holy Days and this is how my religion does it”, you see it as a provocation? Man, we already knew your life was sad but you make the Dead Sea look like a Gay Pride Parade. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/78 "2019-07-08T14:24:57Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > It’s not like gays were a large enough population that what happened to them really mattered. :eek: Are there any other minorities that don’t really matter? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/79 "2019-07-08T14:25:48Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > I don’t think so. Pride parades tend to have the opposite effect. The true cause is people realizing how many they know personally, albeit by accident. Parades actually reinforce the view of gays as “other” to many. But the issue was that many gay people had to be extremely secretive about their sexual orientation, and literally hide who they were, so that their friends around them wouldn’t realize that they worked with, or went to ballgames with, or whatever with a gay person. The pride movement of being public about such things gave many, many people the courage not to live in the closet. You can think of it as moving the [Overton window](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window) in a way – before, most of America held negative feelings about all gay people. Since guys started dancing on floats in leather chaps, most of America has realized that gay people who don’t do that are just totally normal, even if those Americans are still weirded out by the counterculture elements that are sometimes on display. In other words, one could just as easily state that the Civil Rights movement made the Klan even more hateful, or that the Revolutionary War made British feelings towards Americans worse for a while. But I think it’s pretty clear that the advantages have far outweighed such trifling concerns. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/80 "2019-07-08T14:26:52Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > It’s not like gays were a large enough population that what happened to them really mattered. . Say WHAT?!! – this board doesn’t have an emoji for “aghast”, does it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670.md?page=5)