# Help me understand "Gay Pride"? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 7, 2019, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670 "2019-07-07T14:34:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/81 "2019-07-08T14:31:23Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > :eek: > Are there any other minorities that don’t really matter? Pretty much anyone, not just minorities. Those in power technically don’t HAVE to grant people anything. But when the tide shifts a little they tend to permit slightly more to seem tolerant while maintaining the norm. Hence why pride is just a party now and why they don’t censor it like before, it brings eyeballs and makes money and threatens nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/82 "2019-07-08T14:33:25Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > But the issue was that many gay people had to be extremely secretive about their sexual orientation, and literally hide who they were, so that their friends around them wouldn’t realize that they worked with, or went to ballgames with, or whatever with a gay person. The pride movement of being public about such things gave many, many people the courage not to live in the closet. You can think of it as moving the [Overton window](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window) in a way – before, most of America held negative feelings about all gay people. Since guys started dancing on floats in leather chaps, most of America has realized that gay people who don’t do that are just totally normal, even if those Americans are still weirded out by the counterculture elements that are sometimes on display. > > In other words, one could just as easily state that the Civil Rights movement made the Klan even more hateful, or that the Revolutionary War made British feelings towards Americans worse for a while. But I think it’s pretty clear that the advantages have far outweighed such trifling concerns. Sounds more like speculation than the reality. Acceptance didn’t come from parades as there are a good deal of gays who stay in because of them. The reality is that straight people began to see that they weren’t some other but normal people. Race however has had significantly less traction. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/83 "2019-07-08T14:38:25Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > Pretty much anyone, not just minorities. Those in power technically don’t HAVE to grant people anything. But when the tide shifts a little they tend to permit slightly more to seem tolerant while maintaining the norm. Hence why pride is just a party now and why they don’t censor it like before, it brings eyeballs and makes money and threatens nothing. No-let’s leave those goalposts right where you put them. You said “It’s not like gays were a large enough population that what happened to them really mattered”, and that certainly says that they don’t matter because they aren’t a large enough percentage of the population. What _other_ minorities don’t matter _because they aren’t a large enough percentage of the population?_ ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/84 "2019-07-08T14:53:29Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Wait wait wait… are you saying people should only celebrate religious parades if they happen to be part of the local majority? Instead of showing that “hey, we all love to celebrate / commemorate Holy Days and this is how my religion does it”, you see it as a provocation? > > Man, we already knew your life was sad but you make the Dead Sea look like a Gay Pride Parade. No. I’m just saying don’t make what is clearly a party into something more than what it is. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/85 "2019-07-08T14:55:22Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > No-let’s leave those goalposts right where you put them. You said “It’s not like gays were a large enough population that what happened to them really mattered”, and that certainly says that they don’t matter because they aren’t a large enough percentage of the population. What _other_ minorities don’t matter _because they aren’t a large enough percentage of the population?_ Well I guess minority is based on context. But we aren’t talking about other minorities we are talking about gays. I mean to be honest society could have just ignored their protests with little pushback. The other reality is that they could have just hidden their “true self” unlike those with race. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/86 "2019-07-08T14:58:17Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > Well I guess minority is based on context. But we aren’t talking about other minorities we are talking about gays. I mean to be honest society could have just ignored their protests with little pushback. The other reality is that they could have just hidden their “true self” unlike those with race. _This is the reason for Gay Pride._ ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/87 "2019-07-08T15:02:06Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > Emotional appeals don’t work on me. The bulk of your posting history here had been one long emotional appeal. I guess, if it’s YOUR emotions behind discussed, it’s important, but not anyone else’s. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/88 "2019-07-08T15:05:07Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > _This is the reason for Gay Pride._ Their ego? If it was just about survival then they could have just hidden that aspect and gone on. Plenty of animals use camouflage in nature. But its not good enough to just live. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/89 "2019-07-08T15:09:15Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > Their ego? If it was just about survival then they could have just hidden that aspect and gone on. Plenty of animals use camouflage in nature. But its not good enough to just live. Opinions like yours are the reason for Gay Pride. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/90 "2019-07-08T15:11:11Z")
I know this guy on a messageboard who is "[proud to be a guy."](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20159625&postcount=116) Thing is, to me, pride is something you have done. An accomplishment. Somebody winning a gold medal or overcoming cancer, I can see wanting to celebrate pride in that. But just being a guy? I mean, why? I dont think he even had it hard coming out to family. Where is the trophy, diploma, or medal for being just what you say you are? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/91 "2019-07-08T15:19:27Z")
I just want to congratulate **Machinaforce** for taking what had been an interesting conversation, and driving it into the ditch with philosophical meanderings and naive blanket statements. Something to take pride in, no doubt. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/92 "2019-07-08T15:21:58Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Whatever your opinion, the gay rights movement has been very successful in its goals – largely, acceptance and tolerance for gay people (even as there is more progress that needs to be made). Gay pride events are a part of that movement and have contributed to their success. Pride in the impact that the people in your group have made is an achievement no matter how hard you try to twist the definition. Look how far gay acceptance has come in the last 50 years. Opinion polls on gay marriage changed far quicker and by more people than polls on interracial (esp. black-white) marriage. This took a lot of hard, at times dangerous, work. People who dismiss or ignore this trouble me. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/93 "2019-07-08T15:26:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Opinions like yours are the reason for Gay Pride. Could not be more wrong. If it was from a purely practical perspective there is no need for pride. As you can see plenty of animals do find by blending in. It’s not my fault humans are so squishy that that isn’t good enough. You should save your sympathy for those who can’t blend in. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/94 "2019-07-08T15:34:05Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > Could not be more wrong. If it was from a purely practical perspective there is no need for pride. As you can see plenty of animals do find by blending in. It’s not my fault humans are so squishy that that isn’t good enough. > > You should save your sympathy for those who can’t blend in. Like pounding pink triangles into the square holes? ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/95 "2019-07-08T15:37:06Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Pride in the impact that the people in your group have made is an achievement no matter how hard you try to twist the definition. > > Look how far gay acceptance has come in the last 50 years. Opinion polls on gay marriage changed far quicker and by more people than polls on interracial (esp. black-white) marriage. > > This took a lot of hard, at times dangerous, work. People who dismiss or ignore this trouble me. I wouldn’t call it work. I mean civil rights has been happening for much longer and nothing’s changed that much. They worked much harder and couldn’t hide their skin color. It’s just a result of society seeing that gays aren’t some “other” but people who can be anyone, friends and family. It came about because people began to see that those they knew were gay. There’s a bit of a debate about marriage in the gay community as some argue it was just an attempt to appear more “straight” to society, a way to get the foot in the door. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/96 "2019-07-08T15:37:31Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > Could not be more wrong. If it was from a purely practical perspective there is no need for pride. As you can see plenty of animals do find by blending in. It’s not my fault humans are so squishy that that isn’t good enough. > > You should save your sympathy for those who can’t blend in. So, what have _you_ had to repress to fit into society as you see it to be? ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/97 "2019-07-08T15:43:17Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Like pounding pink triangles into the square holes? No, more like skin color or physical features. Blacks and Asians aren’t chameleons. In their case there was literally no choice. Gays did have one and so did the Jews during WWII (some could have lied about their religion and escaped death) so their “achievement” is kind of diminished in a sense. The difference between humans and other animals is that for humans survival isn’t enough, which seems like a weakness. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/98 "2019-07-08T15:45:59Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So, what have _you_ had to repress to fit into society as you see it to be? Not really repress so much as tolerate. In life we don’t pick the hand we’re dealt. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/99 "2019-07-08T15:51:59Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So, what have _you_ had to repress to fit into society as you see it to be? I’m just going to guess: Poor dancing. A love of cargo shorts. Lack of rhythm. Discomfort with spicy foods. You know, the stuff that really matters. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/100 "2019-07-08T15:55:16Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > civil rights has been happening for much longer and nothing’s changed that much. Machinaforce, please go read a history book. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670.md?page=6)