# Help me understand "Gay Pride"? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 7, 2019, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670 "2019-07-07T14:34:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/141 "2019-07-08T19:20:34Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > Something I didn’t ask for that affects my life that compels me to do things I don’t like or want to do. It’s a sickness (well that’s not right, more like a condition) that you learn to manage. I keep hoping you’re either getting professional help or will seriously consider doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/staggerlee/32/3134_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/142 "2019-07-08T19:23:29Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > YOu haven’t read a word I wrote did you? Really, I have read more than enough of your writings. It seems extremely obvious from this thread that were you to come to terms with your homosexuality, you might lose some of your existential anxiety. Like many people on this board, I’ve contemplated both notions of ‘self’ and sexuality over the years, and your angry reactions aren’t unfamiliar. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/143 "2019-07-08T19:24:03Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > You miss my point, the point I’m getting at is that gay pride is rooted in this false construct of a “true self” that they have to be. Much of Eastern philosophy argues that point, and sociology and psychology seem to be arriving there as well. If you want to put a point to it they are fighting over nothing and for nothing. > > It’s just a body, there is no “one” inside. No, gay pride is rooted in seeking a counter balance to a “gay shame” pressure from society. And there may not be a “true self”, but it’s self evident that we cannot control every aspect of ourselves. Would you stay the kind of person who constantly posts about how introspection makes you miserable if you could just not be that person? ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/144 "2019-07-08T19:41:20Z")
> [@naita](#): > > No, gay pride is rooted in seeking a counter balance to a “gay shame” pressure from society. > > And there may not be a “true self”, but it’s self evident that we cannot control every aspect of ourselves. Would you stay the kind of person who constantly posts about how introspection makes you miserable if you could just not be that person? Well apparently you can control this one. It’s not really gay shame so much as they feel like there is this “Self” that society is keeping them from becoming. Make them realize there never was such thing and the movement would fade away. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/145 "2019-07-08T19:42:25Z")
> [@Staggerlee](#): > > Really, I have read more than enough of your writings. It seems extremely obvious from this thread that were you to come to terms with your homosexuality, you might lose some of your existential anxiety. Like many people on this board, I’ve contemplated both notions of ‘self’ and sexuality over the years, and your angry reactions aren’t unfamiliar. It’s extremely obvious that you haven’t read any of my posts because otherwise you wouldn’t come to such a patently false conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/146 "2019-07-08T19:50:14Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > Well apparently you can control this one. It’s not really gay shame so much as they feel like there is this “Self” that society is keeping them from becoming. Make them realize there never was such thing and the movement would fade away. Seems to me, all they want is the freedom and acceptance to express the same sense of “self” as anybody else. You want to make “Gay Pride” fade away? Stop trying to restrict people from being who they really are and just accept them without judgement. Start with yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/147 "2019-07-08T19:58:37Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > It’s just a body, there is no “one” inside. I just thought I would repeat this for the contemplation of anyone who missed it the first time. This thread has been very revealing about what is really going on with this poster. I am sorry to see this, someone giving up so completely. There is some faint hope that something that is struggling to get out will one day succeed, but it will be a mighty struggle. I wish him the strength to endure it. ---
**Author:** ![TimfromNapa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d26b3c/32.png) [@TimfromNapa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimfromNapa)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/148 "2019-07-08T20:01:06Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I have this Facebook friend who is very big on gay pride. > > Thing is, to me, pride is something you have done. An accomplishment. He earned a masters degree. THAT was an accomplishment to have pride in. He has been successful in a difficult career. THAT is also something to have pride in. Somebody winning a gold medal or overcoming cancer, I can see wanting to celebrate pride in that. > > But just being gay? I mean, why? I dont think he even had it hard coming out to family. Plus he was a darn good looking guy so I dont think he had any problem finding a relationship. > > Where is the trophy, diploma, or medal for being just what you say you are? Taking pride in accepting who you are in the face of adversity makes sense. Will someone please explain “Straight Pride” to me? I heard they had a parade for this in Boston recently. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/149 "2019-07-08T20:26:58Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Seems to me, all they want is the freedom and acceptance to express the same sense of “self” as anybody else. > > You want to make “Gay Pride” fade away? Stop trying to restrict people from being who they really are and just accept them without judgement. Start with yourself. There is no “who they really are” so there is nothing to accept. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/150 "2019-07-08T20:28:07Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > I just thought I would repeat this for the contemplation of anyone who missed it the first time. > > This thread has been very revealing about what is really going on with this poster. I am sorry to see this, someone giving up so completely. There is some faint hope that something that is struggling to get out will one day succeed, but it will be a mighty struggle. I wish him the strength to endure it. Once again a post by someone who has not read a single word I said or understood what is being discussed. You are repeating what is essentially a finding of neuroscience and sociology. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/151 "2019-07-08T20:32:14Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > There’s a bit of a debate about marriage in the gay community as some argue it was just an attempt to appear more “straight” to society, a way to get the foot in the door. There’s always a few who don’t like something. But the overwhelming majority of gay people are quite happy with the idea of being able to get married. It in no way has anything to do with appearing “more straight”. Good grief. Just good grief. Again, people are people. Many (not all) like getting married. Whether someone wants to get married or not is just a thing that happens to people. _All_ people. And “foot in the door”. No one wants a foot in the door. They just don’t want to be treated as outsiders. How hard is this to understand??? I can’t possibly add enough "Good grief"s to respond to this weirdness. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/152 "2019-07-08T20:37:25Z")
Thudlow Boink: > [@](#): > > but another meaning of “pride” is the opposite of “shame.” [Unless you’re Homer Simpson, in which case it’s “less shame.”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NykqVnQylw) ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/153 "2019-07-08T20:42:54Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Thudlow Boink: > > [Unless you’re Homer Simpson, in which case it’s “less shame.”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NykqVnQylw) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/154 "2019-07-08T21:00:37Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > There is no “who they really are” so there is nothing to accept. So you’re convinced that a “self” doesn’t exists and you base this knowledge on something a bunch of other non-existing selves convinced you to believe? And you are out on a mission to convince a bunch of other non-existing selves of the fact that they don’t exist either. The important thing to remember here that you’re “ok”. But how do you know? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/155 "2019-07-08T21:29:36Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > Once again a post by someone who has not read a single word I said or understood what is being discussed. You are repeating what is essentially a finding of neuroscience and sociology. There is nothing else but neuroscience and sociology (and a few other ologies). Trying to argue that some religion or philosophy reflects the world better than science is removing oneself from reality. As we have told you a thousand times. By the way, you conspicuously failed to respond to this part of my post. > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > You might want to read [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=878349) before showing your ignorance about history again. History is also a reality. I don’t know whether you are denying that or simply unaware of how wrong you were on the subject, but it should not be ignored. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/156 "2019-07-08T21:44:10Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > There’s always a few who don’t like something. But the overwhelming majority of gay people are quite happy with the idea of being able to get married. > > It in no way has anything to do with appearing “more straight”. Good grief. Just good grief. > > Again, people are people. Many (not all) like getting married. Whether someone wants to get married or not is just a thing that happens to people. _All_ people. > > And “foot in the door”. No one wants a foot in the door. They just don’t want to be treated as outsiders. How hard is this to understand??? > > I can’t possibly add enough "Good grief"s to respond to this weirdness. It seems you don’t get the history behind to move for campaigning for marriage equality, it used to be an issue because it was a straight or “hetero” institution and it was seen as trying to appear normal to those who viewed them as deviant. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/157 "2019-07-08T21:46:29Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > So you’re convinced that a “self” doesn’t exists and you base this knowledge on something a bunch of other non-existing selves convinced you to believe? And you are out on a mission to convince a bunch of other non-existing selves of the fact that they don’t exist either. > > The important thing to remember here that you’re “ok”. But how do you know? It’s not convinced but a matter of accepting reality. There isn’t anything about you that can be pointed to and said “this is me”. It’s a illusion to help us navigate the world. I wouldn’t call it a mission, but it’s a way to pop the common LGBT rhetoric about being your “true self”. There isn’t anything to support that. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/158 "2019-07-08T21:49:43Z")
Its not that human bodies don’t exist, it’s just that the notion that there is something inhabiting or piloting them (some essence) that is false. There is no self, just the illusion of one. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/159 "2019-07-08T22:06:33Z")
**Moderator Note** This thread has gone pretty far off course. **Machinaforce** , if you’d like to discuss your own version of reality, please do so in another thread, preferably in one of your already existing threads. Everyone else, let’s get back to the original topic of this thread, please. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670/160 "2019-07-08T22:14:39Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > Again no they aren’t. It’s similar to living in the wild, except nature is less forgiving than man and you can’t appeal to it at all. I would be willing to admit that living out there is something to take pride on, but in reality it isn’t. Newborn ducks usually get winnowed after the first couple days, same with other young. Honestly animals have it harder than gays. Well of course animals have it tougher than gays. The whole point of civilization is to have it way easier and safer than living in the wild. _Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh._ When someone you know gripes about their day, do you tell them they should be glad because they’re better off than someone in Bangladesh who is getting by on the equivalent of $2 a day? Makes actually more sense than comparing the well-being of gays to that of animals in the wild. > [@](#): > > See the thing is that society doesn’t have to do anything about it. It’s not like gays were a large enough population that what happened to them really mattered. Yeah, and “First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.” If it’s okay to ‘other’ one group, then there’s one less barrier to othering the next. For a long time, America treated blacks as if what happened to them didn’t matter either. Do you think it was sheer numbers that made the difference? > [@](#): > > It’s not so much forcing them so much as just being a child with a tantrum. You keep saying this, but with no justification. I can say you’re like an asteroid, but it’s meaningless without making the connection in a meaningful way. > [@](#): > > You aren’t toppling some oppressive system and rewriting reality, you’re asking mom and dad if you can play with the other kids. There’s no mom or dad. There’s just the other kids. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-gay-pride/836670.md?page=9)