# Help me understand non-binary gender **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 2, 2022, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826 "2022-09-02T17:31:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2022, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826/41 "2022-09-02T22:35:37Z")
@EllieNeo, since minority populations in the U.S. tend to be more socially religious and conservative overall than the white population, is the lack of minorities reporting as non-binary due to an internal stigma, the way that reporting as gay was stigmatized a few decades ago? My understanding is that minority communities took longer to be accepting than whites. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2022, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826/42 "2022-09-02T23:09:19Z")
My eldest identifies as gender fluid non-bianary and was assigned female at birth. I don’t have a good description. That said, from my observation, I believe (not sure they would agree) that they really dislike being viewed and treated in the female role. That they prefer to be viewed as a person instead of a woman. And want to be left alone from unwanted traditional male role attention. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2022, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826/43 "2022-09-02T23:23:58Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Likewise. I think maybe I sorta understand it but I might well be wrong. @EllieNeo and I haven’t lived together since she started presenting as genderfluid; in fact, we live on opposite sides of the country, so I look forward to learning from this thread, too. (And I hope she explores the rest of the board, too. You’re good peeps.) ---
**Author:** ![EllieNeo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/65b543/32.png) [@EllieNeo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllieNeo)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2022, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826/44 "2022-09-03T00:18:13Z")
@Charlie_Tan you’re not being too nosy. i’m comfortable with my coworkers, and i’m not sure if many of them even notice when i switch. my binder is more for my benefit than anything else. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2022, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826/45 "2022-09-03T00:32:52Z")
@EllieNeo You might consider talking to them about your experiences cleaning the women’s restroom while wearing your binder. If I recall correctly, they didn’t handle it well. The customers, I mean. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2022, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826/46 "2022-09-03T00:54:23Z")
Thanks everyone for participating in this thread, its nice to know that I wasn’t entirely off base about my assumptions and that I’m not alone in finding this difficult to get my head around. I particularly want to thank EllieNeo for coming. I appreciate your courage for being willing to share such personal information with more or less complete strangers. > [@Riemann](#): > > I don’t think this is quite correct… Doreen has it right. I’m speculating that I my personal underlying gender identity may not be particularly strong one way or another and so my decision to view myself as male may be due primarily to my socialization. I’m most definitely not saying that this is true for people in general. Also since I haven’t/can’t/don’t want to do the experiment of trying to socialize as a female, I may be totally wrong even about myself. > [@EllieNeo](#): > > my brain switches between “girl brain” and “guy brain” all the time. i also have a large amount of time where i’m somewhere in between I am very intrigued by this since it really gets to the part that I am having difficulty understanding. What does is mean to you to switch between “girl brain” and “guy brain”? I can understand feeling in a grumpy mood but the idea of feeling in a “guy” mood goes right over my head. How does it feel. Does it manifest itself as a physical sensation that makes you feel more comfortable with bound breasts? Is it more of an emotional shift, maybe a feeling of more aggressive on male days and more nurturing on female days? When you have a shift do all the components tend travel together towards a specific gender or is the case that you can feel in a guy mood in certain ways and in a girl mood in other ways all at the same time? Sorry to bombard you with questions, please only answer the ones you feel comfortable with. ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2022, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826/47 "2022-09-03T01:44:34Z")
Some nonbinary people use that term because they don’t think gender is a straight-line continuum. Like, it could be multi- dimensional. Points on the surface of a sphere. Like, they literally don’t think binary gender concepts encompass who they are. Others, as mentioned, go back and forth, or identify as being in the middle of the continuum. Those are some very disparate concepts all covered by one term. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2022, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826/48 "2022-09-03T01:59:33Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Of course, those numbers seem a bit iffy in terms of demographic distribution, unless there is some reason that nonbinary identity would inherently be disproportionately young and/or white and/or urban. It seems likely that those are just the groups most willing to articulate and claim that identity. This actually makes sense to me. 30 years ago, “non-binary” wasn’t an option. You had an outie, you were male. Yeah, trans was an option, but that’s it. People of that time picked a lane because the middle of the road wasn’t an option. By now, they’re used to their lane and wouldn’t identify as anything else. Born 20 years later, and you’re not as set. Now, you hear the concept and think “yeah, that’s how I felt - maybe I could be NB.” Versus today, where i’m sure every kid in high school knows a few people who are NB. I’m in my late 50s, and I know 3 kids. (under 25 years old is still a kid to me). So, fewer from my generation; more from the next; even more from the current. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2022, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826/49 "2022-09-03T02:05:52Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > That they prefer to be viewed as a person instead of a woman. And want to be left alone from unwanted traditional male role attention. Our American society is moving in this direction. Slowly. Very slowly. But, I think it is. Yeah, there is initial blowback to “mail person” in place of mailman, but eventually we got to “letter carrier”, and no one cares. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2022, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826/50 "2022-09-03T03:57:00Z")
Yeah, I’m pretty sure that if i were 20, i would identify as non-binary. I’ve never felt female. I’m not even comfortable in all-female groups. I feel like i don’t belong there. But i have never felt male, either. ---
**Author:** ![EllieNeo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/65b543/32.png) [@EllieNeo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllieNeo)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2022, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826/51 "2022-09-03T05:17:40Z")
@Kimstu yes, i use female pronouns, but thanks for asking! ---
**Author:** ![EllieNeo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/65b543/32.png) [@EllieNeo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllieNeo)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2022, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826/52 "2022-09-03T05:26:12Z")
@Exapno_Mapcase i can’t really speak on this, because i’m white myself. unless i’m misunderstanding the question. ---
**Author:** ![EllieNeo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/65b543/32.png) [@EllieNeo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllieNeo)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2022, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826/53 "2022-09-03T05:31:19Z")
@Buck_Godot my guy brain tells me i’m missing body parts and have parts i shouldn’t have, hence the binder. my brother didn’t mention it, but i also have a packer, which helps with the missing body parts feeling. it is a bit of an emotional shift, too, but not really aggressiveness vs nurturing. it’s hard to describe the emotions that go with guy brain vs girl brain. i’m not sure if i’m being very helpful to this thread, but i am trying. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2022, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826/54 "2022-09-03T10:38:28Z")
@EllieNeo About how many times a day do you go between guy brain and girl brain? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2022, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826/55 "2022-09-03T11:06:06Z")
How old were you when you first became aware of feeling your body felt wrong? ---
**Author:** ![FrenchDunadan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frenchdunadan/32/5449_2.png) [@FrenchDunadan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FrenchDunadan)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2022, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826/56 "2022-09-03T15:49:37Z")
Hello, EllieNeo about guy/girl brain, have you experienced the fact that in the same conditions, your reaction had been different if you were in guy or in girl brain? I’m also one of the fishes perplexed by this “drowning” ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2022, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826/57 "2022-09-03T15:51:46Z")
> [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](#): > > This actually makes sense to me. 30 years ago, “non-binary” wasn’t an option. You had an outie, you were male. Yeah, trans was an option, but that’s it. People of that time picked a lane because the middle of the road wasn’t an option. And, at least in my case: if such an option did exist, it wasn’t well-known, and I had no idea that it was even a thing. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2022, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826/58 "2022-09-03T16:28:07Z")
> [@EllieNeo](#): > > i’m not sure if i’m being very helpful to this thread, but i am trying. I would say you are definitely making a positive contribution, and I thank you for your posts. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2022, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826/59 "2022-09-03T16:44:14Z")
I think that “non-binary” isn’t so much a gender identity, as it is a whole bunch of different gender identities. In any categorization scheme, there will be some finite number of categories that will cover most cases, and then you’ll need some “other” category, for cases that don’t fit into those common categories. And the members of that “other” category are likely to be very different from each other. With gender, there are two categories that cover most people, but then there are some people who don’t really fit into either of those categories. There can be many different ways they don’t fit in: They might be male in some ways but female in others, or they might be male at some times but female at others, or they might find themselves somewhere in between male and female, or orthogonal to them. All such people go in the “non-binary” category, even though they might be very different from each other. Now, we can, of course, make more categories for the various sorts of non-binary, and to some extent, we do so. But no matter how many categories we come up with, there will always be some who don’t fit into any of them. ---
**Author:** ![EllieNeo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/65b543/32.png) [@EllieNeo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllieNeo)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2022, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826/60 "2022-09-03T18:14:22Z")
@ekedolphin it depends on the day and the situations i go through during the day, but i’d say at least once or twice, and much of the time i’m somewhere in the middle. @puzzlegal i was in my teens, back when i grew boobs. but i wasn’t confident enough to live as openly genderfluid until recently. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826.md?page=4)