# Help me understand non-binary gender **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 2, 2022, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826 "2022-09-02T17:31:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2022, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826/61 "2022-09-03T18:55:02Z")
@EllieNeo How does it feel to be somewhere in the middle between guy brain and girl brain? Is it often 50/50, or somewhere else on the spectrum? ---
**Author:** ![EllieNeo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/65b543/32.png) [@EllieNeo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllieNeo)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2022, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826/62 "2022-09-03T19:22:27Z")
@ekedolphin it’s often 50/50, which is like my brain can’t decide. hard to describe how it feels. my brain will tell me that my body needs to be more androgynous at those times, which is difficult to do. i’ll generally wear a tight tank top that isn’t quite a binder at those times. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2022, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826/63 "2022-09-03T19:33:22Z")
@EllieNeo What are your biggest challenges in your gender-fluidity as it relates to your relationships with other people, from a romantic, platonic, and professional standpoint? ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2022, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826/64 "2022-09-03T21:51:36Z")
Biologically, NB is a safe haven because no other gender views it as a threat or as a competitor. NB has survival value. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2022, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826/65 "2022-09-03T22:53:01Z")
@EllieNeo, this is really informative and thank you for helping us with this. When you are in guy-brain mode, for example, how foreign, unpleasant (if that), or unwanted (again, if that) do your female parts feel? So, when you feel the need to wear the binder, do you just wish that you could remove your breasts, or it just that their appearance just don’t align with your current mind? ---
**Author:** ![EllieNeo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/65b543/32.png) [@EllieNeo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllieNeo)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826/66 "2022-09-04T00:50:11Z")
@ekedolphin explaining that i’m genderfluid is a challenge in itself with any type of relationship. people often assume i go by they/them pronouns because i’m genderfluid, but i don’t. other than that, the challenge is to get them to understand that i have no control over what makes me switch. @velomont my brain tells me that i shouldn’t have them at all. that i should have a guy’s chest. so it almost feels like i’m top heavy, if that makes any sense. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826/67 "2022-09-04T01:13:14Z")
@EllieNeo Apologize in advance if I’m revealing too much, but how does your genderfluidity effect your relationship with your boyfriend? ---
**Author:** ![EllieNeo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/65b543/32.png) [@EllieNeo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllieNeo)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826/68 "2022-09-04T01:17:56Z")
@ekedolphin no, he completely accepts me for who i am, and loves me no matter what mode my brain is in. he even did some research about genderfluid people to help understand me better. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826/69 "2022-09-04T02:18:56Z")
> [@EllieNeo](#): > > my brain tells me that i shouldn’t have them at all. that i should have a guy’s chest. so it almost feels like i’m top heavy, if that makes any sense @EllieNeo, so that sensation can fluctuate, depending which “mode” your head is in? ---
**Author:** ![EllieNeo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/65b543/32.png) [@EllieNeo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllieNeo)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826/70 "2022-09-04T02:33:23Z")
@velomont yes, it can. i’m glad i’m making sense. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![omenran](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omenran/32/3318_2.png) [@omenran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/omenran)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826/71 "2022-09-04T05:17:32Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > In general, I don’t care much about anyone’s gender identification or sexual orientation. I’d just as soon have everyone be as happy or content as they are capable of. If someone I cared about told me they were nonbinary - and if our relation was of a certain intimacy, I’d ask them, “What does that mean.” But in the vast majority of situations, I really don’t care if anyone is cis, gay, nonbinary, or whatever. It just doesn’t have any relevance to our interaction. Ad I don’t care who uses which bathroom! This is pretty much my take on things, most of the time it doesn’t concern me. I would just casually say “it doesn’t matter to me”, but it does matter, I’m just not worried what the gender/orientation/etc is. I still appreciate what pronouns to use. But I have a small and not developed habit (from busy chat rooms mostly) to use a person’s name and avoid pronouns when possible. I have one friend who I know online, but I don’t know their identity, and while I go back and forth on what it may be, or if I should just ask- it seems rude and it’s really pointless to me, even if/when I get a chance to meet them. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826/72 "2022-09-04T05:29:06Z")
> [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](#): > > 30 years ago, “non-binary” wasn’t an option. You had an outie, you were male. Yeah, trans was an option, but that’s it. People of that time picked a lane because the middle of the road wasn’t an option. Or in rare cases we _didn’t_ and drove right out into the wilderness and forged a new path. That doesn’t always mean it’s going to be a path that gets paved and marked and celebrated 40 years later. Some of us persevere and explain ourselves in the best terms we can find, only to have @Guinastasia and @Darren_Garrison (and etc) roll their eyes and say “I really don’t get AHunter3, whatever is he on about, it’s like he’s trans but he’s not, I guess he’s just a special snowflake oh no umm more likely boring cisgender male guy who just has to conjure up some way in which he’s cutting edge trendy and shit”. People like to pretend to be open to understanding identities but often are only genuinely open to identities once they are sufficiently trending and popularized that they are a “thing”. That translates as “your need to invent a box to put yourself in is pathetic. Unless you put yourself into a box we already recognize, in which case hey you’re a civil rights concern we’re all behind and the bigots can go to hell”. I think I’m a product of my time in many ways; if I’d grown up in a world less gender-binary in elementary school, I’d probably be agender. Or oblivious to gender. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826/73 "2022-09-04T21:49:02Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > how does your genderfluidity effect your relationship with your boyfriend? @EllieNeo, are your preferences vis a vis partner sexuality and/or gender and/or gender fluidity etc fluid? And if you don’t want to answer that cumbersome and awkwardly worded question, I obviously don’t need to know. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826/74 "2022-09-04T22:22:52Z")
How do you know? I mean, I’m pretty squarely a masculine man, and that doesn’t waver. It doesn’t however mean that I can’t enjoy things like rocking a baby to sleep and singing to it, for an example of something I do enjoy and am quite good at in fact. But doing it doesn’t make me feel feminine; I’m still me, hairy macho-ness and everything. I just happen to be engaging in an activity that isn’t stereotypically a male thing. It’s a hard thing for me to wrap my head around- the fish wondering about drowning is an excellent analogy. ---
**Author:** ![scareyfaerie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scareyfaerie/32/3135_2.png) [@scareyfaerie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scareyfaerie)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2022, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826/75 "2022-09-05T13:48:34Z")
@EllieNeo thank you for answering all our questions and being so open to them. As another flapping fish, I have learned a lot already. I was going to ask about the switch from guy to girl brain but you have already covered that. I think I understand about feeling you have body parts that aren’t right and at any time that can switch for you. Do you ever feel that it dominates your thinking? I’ve had boobs for over 40 years and to me, they’re just **there** , and I don’t really think about them (apart from the moment of joy getting home and pulling my bra off. Do you feel that in girl brain mode, they don’t bother you but in guy brain mode it becomes more of an issue? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2022, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826/76 "2022-09-05T15:08:22Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > Some of us persevere and explain ourselves in the best terms we can find, only to have @Guinastasia and @Darren_Garrison (and etc) roll their eyes and say “I really don’t get AHunter3, whatever is he on about, it’s like he’s trans but he’s not, I guess he’s just a special snowflake oh no umm more likely boring cisgender male guy who just has to conjure up some way in which he’s cutting edge trendy and shit”. To be honest, @AHunter3 , I don’t really understand your identity, either. Or for that matter, the entire concept of gender identity to begin with. But, shrug, there are lots of things in the Universe I don’t understand, and don’t need to. You don’t need to understand someone to be able to ask them how they’d like to be treated, and then to treat them how they ask. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2022, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826/77 "2022-09-05T15:59:24Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > But, shrug, there are lots of things in the Universe I don’t understand, and don’t need to. You don’t need to understand someone to be able to ask them how they’d like to be treated, and then to treat them how they ask. I’d recommend that people who don’t understand and don’t feel any compelling need to understand refrain from commenting repeatedly that they don’t understand or, worse, state outright that the individual in question makes no sense or has no legitimate point to make. Then the genuinely confused and genuinely curious can ask honest questions and no one is likely to feel badly treated by the process. I have never been offended by a question that someone posts because they want to understand. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2022, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826/78 "2022-09-05T16:17:19Z")
> [@scareyfaerie](#): > > I’ve had boobs for over 40 years and to me, they’re just **there** , and I don’t really think about them (apart from the moment of joy getting home and pulling my bra off. Interesting. I’ve had boobs for more like 50 years than 40, but they’ve annoyed me since they started to sag and needed support, which happened when I was about 13. I seriously researched breast reduction surgery, but lost interest when I learned it might prevent me from breast-feeding. And they haven’t bothered me as much since having kids. I don’t take my bra off until I got to bed, though. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2022, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826/79 "2022-09-06T00:46:19Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > You don’t need to understand someone to be able to ask them how they’d like to be treated, and then to treat them how they ask. I agree with this 100%. And it’s not like what they’re asking is all that hard - treat a fellow human being with respect. ---
**Author:** ![EllieNeo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/65b543/32.png) [@EllieNeo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllieNeo)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2022, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826/80 "2022-09-06T05:24:59Z")
@scareyfaerie it does dominate my thinking at times, yes. in girl brain mode, it’s much like you described; they’re just **there** , and i don’t really think about them. but in guy brain, they’re definitely an issue. when i’m somewhere in the middle, they also don’t bother me. like, i could take them or leave them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-non-binary-gender/970826.md?page=5)