# Help me understand some things about homosexual attraction **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 28, 2012, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-some-things-about-homosexual-attraction/642345 "2012-11-28T03:50:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-some-things-about-homosexual-attraction/642345/41 "2012-11-28T18:35:28Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > Vito, > > Thanks for the informative answer, free of defensiveness or ungenerous interpretation. It’s refreshing. > > When I was in bootcamp, I did wonder how young gay recruits handle group showers. I’m pretty sure most straight 19 year old males who took a shower surrounded by fit young female recruits would have difficulty hiding their heterosexuality. In the gay recruit’s case, that could be significant cause for worry. We had co-ed showers in one of my college dorms. On occasion I’d find a young woman showering at the same time as me. I never “showed by heterosexuality” It was not romantic, just awkward. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-some-things-about-homosexual-attraction/642345/42 "2012-11-28T18:40:00Z")
> [@Heracles](#): > > I guess it’s a bit like if you go to a (female) doctor and she examines/manipulates your genitals clinically (clinically, not critically!). I would imagine that you won’t have much of a reaction. Reminds me of something that happened last spring. My prostate had become enlarged, so I went to a urologist. He turned out to be exactly my favorite type, and I had a difficult time taking my eyes off him. Then at one point he needed to directly check my prostate. I was bent over the table, and he was preparing his finger, and he handed me a tissue, and said “Just in case.” I was going to congratulate him on his mind-reading skills. Anyway, I didn’t need the tissue. ---
**Author:** ![magnusblitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@magnusblitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magnusblitz)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-some-things-about-homosexual-attraction/642345/43 "2012-11-28T19:26:09Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > 1. How are homosexual people attracted at all to people that have the same equipment they have. I think every straight male has wished they could turn themselves to an attractive female temporarily just so we could play with ourselves silly for a few hours. Gay people have that option but it seems like the effect would wear off quickly. I always thought as a heterosexual that the main reason I liked girls was that they had things that I didn’t but I guess that principle doesn’t hold for homosexuals. Why is that? I think you’re working off a completely flawed assumption (that heterosexuals are attracted to the opposite gender simply because they have different genitalia). I’d say there’s really no reason to believe that and would ask for proof to support such a claim. > [@](#): > > 1. Why do so many homosexuals gender blur and why are some people attracted to that? I work with a lot of very butch lesbians who seem to be regular guys in everything chromosomal make-up. They have girlfriends who apparently like that style a lot.Why don’t they just go for petite males because the difference isn’t obvious to me. Likewise, many homosexual men pick partners who will grow to be the epitome of a housewife. What is the difference between the two? You’re preying on stereotypes while ignoring counter-examples. There are plenty of homosexuals who fall within traditional gender roles (“masculine” males, “feminine” females). There are also plenty of heterosexual men who like masculine women and heterosexual women who like feminine. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-some-things-about-homosexual-attraction/642345/44 "2012-11-28T20:08:30Z")
Well, back to the OP, I don’t have tits, like me some boobs as much or more than the next guy, and like the whole soft/sweet femininine kind of thing that I don’t have much of. But there are a lot of other things that attract me about my partner that I do have myself: smarts, more or less funny, taste in music, political views, ability to both love Dr. Who and make snarky comments about it while watching it, etc. So, I imagine that if I was turned on by hairy chests or whatever, I probably wouldn’t sit around looking at my own chest and masturbating any more than I sit around being turned on by my own wit or art. And, then again, for the record, as I said I like me some boobs, and slim legs and well shaped behinds are wonderful, but actual women’s genitals are really not inherently attractive to me. I mean, they’re where sexyfuntime happens for her and usually me, and I like sexyfuntime for both of us so they’re a good place, but in and of themselves, they’re not really attractive. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-some-things-about-homosexual-attraction/642345/45 "2012-11-28T20:59:45Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > . . . the way a man’s hands are always warm and never cold . . . Until this point, I thought I was a man! 😉 > [@Lasciel](#): > > . . . It seems really unfortunate to me to have a cultural shame over nudity and bodies to the extent that we do. Total agreement. There are TV channels that blur out pictures of babies’ bottoms! The obsession is malignant. (I once really scored off of a guy who was arguing for “Natural Rights.” I said that being naked was surely one of the most obvious natural rights there could be. The government intrudes on our freedom by compelling us to wear clothes – and it’s an unfunded mandate, too! I have to pay for the clothing! He was absolutely unable to respond. Win!) > [@heathen\_earthling](#): > > The only thing I don’t understand about homosexual attraction is how they balance their attraction with their own body image insecurities. Like does it feel emasculating for a man to date a man with a penis much bigger than his own? Well…does it emasculate a man to make love to a woman who can have multiple orgasms? I’d say, rather, that if two people are really in love, they’ll celebrate one another’s gifts. A gay man might not be threatened or feel insecure in the situation you describe, as be proud that he can make his partner happy. That larger penis is rock-hard and jumping around, bringing pleasure to them both. (And yet…I have known men who have said they would never, ever, date a woman taller than they are. So, who knows: maybe some people are insecure enough to fall prey to such foolish body jealousy!) ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-some-things-about-homosexual-attraction/642345/46 "2012-11-28T22:13:23Z")
> [@heathen\_earthling](#): > > The only thing I don’t understand about homosexual attraction is how they balance their attraction with their own body image insecurities. Like does it feel emasculating for a man to date a man with a penis much bigger than his own? This is one of those things that works very differently for different people. Actually, my attractions were one of those things that helped me a great deal in resolving my body issues: I developed (unconsciously) and encouraged (part consciously, part unconsciously) an attraction to men who look like me, and that helped immensely. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-some-things-about-homosexual-attraction/642345/47 "2012-11-28T22:25:18Z")
I really miss **Esprix** - that’s all I have to contribute ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-some-things-about-homosexual-attraction/642345/48 "2012-11-28T22:27:09Z")
1. You can’t kiss, fuck, get fucked by, or have oral sex with yourself unless you are extremely flexible. You can’t have a romantic, emotional, and intellectual relationship with yourself. Friendships aren’t based on gender and yet few are satisfied with having themselves as their only friend. You are no more likely to get tired of someone because they are the same gender than you are of someone of the opposite gender with whom you have unfettered sexual access. And it’s not like gay men seek out their own clone. There’s a lot more variation to people than just gender. Plus, people are attracted to what they are attracted to. 2. Gay people have already broken gender taboos, so there’s little additional cost to breaking other ones. If there was no taboo, there would probably be just as many straight people doing it. And in fact I suspect that straight people who are already stretching other boundaries (kink, polyamory, bdsm) probably do. The simple answer is, gay men are attracted to men for all of the same reasons straight women are. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-some-things-about-homosexual-attraction/642345/49 "2012-11-28T22:29:15Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > This is one of those things that works very differently for different people. Actually, my attractions were one of those things that helped me a great deal in resolving my body issues: I developed (unconsciously) and encouraged (part consciously, part unconsciously) an attraction to men who look like me, and that helped immensely. I can relate to that. I always end up picking women that look like a female version of me to the point that other people assume we are closely related. That has led to some Three’s Company type scenarios a few times. Maybe that is why I made the assumptions I did in my first question. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-some-things-about-homosexual-attraction/642345/50 "2012-11-28T22:31:37Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Until this point, I thought I was a man! 😉 It is quite possible that there are women with warm hands and men with cold hands. (Actually, my dad’s hands are often quite cold but he’s getting older and the ole circ system just isn’t what it used to be.) But in my experience, women are heatpires sucking my caloric essence like nobody’s business. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-some-things-about-homosexual-attraction/642345/51 "2012-11-28T23:44:17Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > I don’t know if this is facetious but it’s because their different equipment gives me a place to put MY equipment. This would only explain heterosexual attraction if men are generally attracted to warm wet holes and women are generally attracted to firm rods. In any case, I didn’t ask “why are heterosexuals attracted to differing junk” but rather, “how are heterosexuals attracted to differing junk”. I asked this question because the OP asks “how are homosexuals attracted to the same junk.” To get an idea how to answer this, it’s helpful if we know how the OP would answer the parallel question about heterosexuals. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-some-things-about-homosexual-attraction/642345/52 "2012-11-29T00:46:14Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > This would only explain heterosexual attraction if men are generally attracted to warm wet holes and women are generally attracted to firm rods. > > In any case, I didn’t ask “why are heterosexuals attracted to differing junk” but rather, “how are heterosexuals attracted to differing junk”. I asked this question because the OP asks “how are homosexuals attracted to the same junk.” To get an idea how to answer this, it’s helpful if we know how the OP would answer the parallel question about heterosexuals. That is one way to put it but I didn’t have that line of thinking in mind when I wrote the question. It is an almost universal rite of passage for straight males to seek out pornography early on just to see graphically what we were just starting to understand. I grew up in a small town in the 80’s so pornography was mostly limited to photos of airbrushed models in any old copy of Playboy that we could score plus about ten seconds of cumulative time on a after-hours Showtime movie on Saturday night. That is an extremely strong drive however and you don’t learn it from anyone. Young straight males all over the world seek that stuff out just based on innate attraction to something they don’t have and I consider it an integral part of sexual development. The reason I asked that question in particular is that things would have been completely different back then if I was homosexual and could get an almost equivalent effect just by getting out of the shower every morning and looking in the mirror or, better yet, taking a group shower in a gym with my preferred sex. That is every straight guy’s dream yet no gay person here is saying that they appreciated that convenience much at all. As an adult, I know that actual relationships are complicated and involve much more than just pure physical aspects but I wasn’t asking about that. I am just interested in hearing about why homosexuals are attracted to who they since I learned that it isn’t just a direct translation from heterosexual sex and attraction. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-some-things-about-homosexual-attraction/642345/53 "2012-11-29T01:49:38Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > That is one way to put it but I didn’t have that line of thinking in mind when I wrote the question. It is an almost universal rite of passage for straight males to seek out pornography early on just to see graphically what we were just starting to understand. I grew up in a small town in the 80’s so pornography was mostly limited to photos of airbrushed models in any old copy of Playboy that we could score plus about ten seconds of cumulative time on a after-hours Showtime movie on Saturday night. That is an extremely strong drive however and you don’t learn it from anyone. Young straight males all over the world seek that stuff out just based on innate attraction to something they don’t have and I consider it an integral part of sexual development. But I started looking at porn too, gay porn, as soon as I could get access to it. Obviously it had nothing to do with the unfamiliarity of the anatomy shown. There was titillating unfamiliarity, sure–the unfamiliarity of sexual situations–which was no different from what a straight boy would experience. (I always love how Bill Cosby described his first experience of seeing a naked photo as a boy: “And then I saw something as remarkable as a photo of downtown Mars.” It was no different for me the first time I saw gay porn.) Which answers why we couldn’t get the same effect from the mirror or the shower: both were familiar and quite anaphrodisiac (and in the case of the shower, excruciating) situations. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-some-things-about-homosexual-attraction/642345/54 "2012-11-29T01:56:30Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > which was no different from what a straight boy would experience Well, I shouldn’t say “no different.” You are quite categorical that _la différence_ is a major part certainly of your own erotic response. What I mean is that this is plainly not a necessary part of the sexual response for everyone, and not even for all heterosexuals. There are other components to sexual attraction which are more basic. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-some-things-about-homosexual-attraction/642345/55 "2012-11-29T02:24:37Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > 1. How are homosexual people attracted at all to people that have the same equipment they have. I think every straight male has wished they could turn themselves to an attractive female temporarily just so we could play with ourselves silly for a few hours. Gay people have that option but it seems like the effect would wear off quickly. I always thought as a heterosexual that the main reason I liked girls was that they had things that I didn’t but I guess that principle doesn’t hold for homosexuals. Why is that? Same equipment is awesome! I have a lifetime of experience with my own and so does the person I’m with. We both know how to make those parts feel good and that experience really pays off. Not to mention the bonus of doubling your wardrobe (if they are of similar size of course) without the extra shopping. Although what it comes down to, is that I’m attracted to males and not females. It really is that simple. > [@](#): > > 1. Why do so many homosexuals gender blur and why are some people attracted to that? I work with a lot of very butch lesbians who seem to be regular guys in everything chromosomal make-up. They have girlfriends who apparently like that style a lot.Why don’t they just go for petite males because the difference isn’t obvious to me. Likewise, many homosexual men pick partners who will grow to be the epitome of a housewife. What is the difference between the two? > > I believe this stuff is innate and is hard to explain but any explanation at all is appreciated just to help general understanding. Speaking for myself, traditional gender roles are boring and confining. I’ve never conformed to them, even as a little kid. To be honest though, I don’t see much of what you’re describing. I know a ton of very masculine male couples, femme couples, very femme lesbian couples, butch lesbian couples and everything in between. The ‘butch gay guy wants a male housewife’ thing is really rare in my experience. ---
**Author:** ![D-bear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@D-bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D-bear)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-some-things-about-homosexual-attraction/642345/56 "2012-11-29T05:21:17Z")
Yeah. Pretty much what has been said above. I’m sexually attracted to MEN, not genitals. The genitals are fun, but not what I’m attracted to. 100% of the men I’ve gone out with or found myself attracted to haven’t shown me their genitals until after the initial mutual attraction has put us into a situation where that would be appropriate… Is that different for heterosexuals? **Shagnasty,** are you unable to get a woman to go out with you until after you flash her some peen? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-some-things-about-homosexual-attraction/642345/57 "2012-11-29T06:04:27Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > if I was homosexual and could get an almost equivalent effect just by getting out of the shower every morning and looking in the mirror . . . My problem with that is that the guy I see in the mirror isn’t at all my type. Sure, I could see guys naked in gym class, but it just added to the frustration; they were beyond reach. And the guys who WERE my type represented that same"attraction to other" that straight guys were experiencing with women. Not only that, but back that long ago, I had no access to gay porn until I was over 30. I’m sure it was out there, but I had no idea it existed or how to get hold of it. So I invented my own, and developed my drawing skills. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-some-things-about-homosexual-attraction/642345/58 "2012-11-29T06:27:57Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > That is every straight guy’s dream yet no gay person here is saying that they appreciated that convenience much at all. What would have been the point? You assume as a default that just as you see women as sexual objects, they see you as one. What would daydreaming about my high school classmates ever done for me? There were 9 other guys in my high school grade. Statistically speaking, I was it for homos. Sometimes unrequited love falls on us but there’s no need to intentionally seek it out and I doubt I’m alone in not wanting to add yet another straight guy to my list of never-gonna-be-boyfriends. Convenience? Ha. I would gladly trade with you the chance to shower with your preferred gender in exchange for knowing that about 96% of the time whoever I want to flirt with is at least open to flirting with a guy. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-some-things-about-homosexual-attraction/642345/59 "2012-11-29T19:10:49Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > What would have been the point? You assume as a default that just as you see women as sexual objects, they see you as one. What would daydreaming about my high school classmates ever done for me? There were 9 other guys in my high school grade. Statistically speaking, I was it for homos. Sometimes unrequited love falls on us but there’s no need to intentionally seek it out and I doubt I’m alone in not wanting to add yet another straight guy to my list of never-gonna-be-boyfriends. Convenience? Ha. I would gladly trade with you the chance to shower with your preferred gender in exchange for knowing that about 96% of the time whoever I want to flirt with is at least open to flirting with a guy. Or having to worry that you will be physically assaulted if those members of your preferred gender found out you might want to flirt with them. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-some-things-about-homosexual-attraction/642345/60 "2012-11-30T10:31:11Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > Or having to worry that you will be physically assaulted if those members of your preferred gender found out you might want to flirt with them. . . . plus the fact that when I came out, gay sex was illegal, and the cops were the ones who’d “physically assault” you if you were caught. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-some-things-about-homosexual-attraction/642345.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-some-things-about-homosexual-attraction/642345.md?page=4)