# Help me understand the anger of Trump voters / working class white people. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 8, 2016, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320 "2016-03-08T19:54:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2016, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320/201 "2016-03-17T17:25:29Z")
> [@stillownedbysetters](#): > > Granted something like this wouldn’t constitute a single source solution, but surely there are other, similar, ideas that could work. . There are lots of solutions, but these are people who are resistant to any kind of change. I was reading an article about a proposal Bernie Sanders had about rebuilding our rail system. Without delving into an actual cost/benefit analysis, the general benefits of such a system would be reducing the number of long-haul trucks on the road, increasing the overall capacity of our national logistics infrastructure and reducing highway congestion and maintenance costs. But all the conservatives hear is “Dem trains gonna take our truckin’ jobs!” ---
**Author:** ![inscrutable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a88e4f/32.png) [@inscrutable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inscrutable)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2016, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320/202 "2016-03-17T17:31:56Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Seconded. You really need to answer this, **adaher.** Really? I’m amazed he thought it a valid question… ---
**Author:** ![stillownedbysetters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/41988e/32.png) [@stillownedbysetters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stillownedbysetters)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2016, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320/203 "2016-03-17T17:40:04Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I thought that we were speaking of Donald Trump. 😕 Point taken. lol But for a surprising amount of people - at least those interviewed on tv - he is both of those things. Which makes him even more scary, as far as I’m concerned. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2016, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320/204 "2016-03-17T17:41:54Z")
> [@stillownedbysetters](#): > > Point taken. lol But for a surprising amount of people - at least those interviewed on tv - he is both of those things. Which makes him even more scary, as far as I’m concerned. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2016, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320/205 "2016-03-17T17:56:24Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Not at all. At least not always! In reading your post, it seemed to me you were positing a rational position for Trump support. Well yes and no. I’m a Republican and I have to admit that I favor Trump IN THE PRIMARIES\* (not general) and part of that is based on how the Republican Party has been dragged to the right lately I love the fact that the leadership is pissed off. Is that rational? Well kind off but then again maybe not because Trump is as crazy as Cruz and Rubio. But ultimately I think Americans are just tired of professional politicians no matter the ideology. I keep hearing “They’re all the same.” more and more. \*The other reason is since we’re going to lose this election why not take advantage of the opportunity to break up the party. ---
**Author:** ![moldmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ee59a6/32.png) [@moldmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moldmonkey)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2016, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320/206 "2016-03-17T18:21:59Z")
> [@](#): > > And they probably can’t run farms any more, either. Most American farmland is now owned by agribiz corps for whom the “farmers” are but hired hands. Cite? I should probably give up but since this is The Straight Dope I will tilt at this windmill a while longer. Production agriculture is still predominately done by family farms. They are large and use industrial agricultural practices but they are still family farms. It’s the suppliers to these farmers and the processors of their products that are large corporations. Pork and chicken front-line production is often done under contract with large coporations which is the closest to what you are talking about but even those contract farmers are family farmers. The Old McDonald style family farm started dying during the Depression and gasped its last breath during the farm crisis of the 70s & 80s. Here’s my cite. Note 50% farm their own land and 6% farm some of their own and rent the rest out. In my experience the other 44% are the kids and grandkids of farmers that inherit the old place. They won’t sell but don’t want to come back to the farm. Census Bureau PDF [https://www.census.gov/prod/1/statbrief/sb93\_10.pdf](https://www.census.gov/prod/1/statbrief/sb93_10.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![moldmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ee59a6/32.png) [@moldmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moldmonkey)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2016, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320/207 "2016-03-17T18:36:27Z")
As far as putting poor rural whites to work in agriculture. It’s not really going to happen. There’s not many jobs since the equipment and farms keep getting bigger. The work is getting more technical. You don’t want the local HS dropout mixing your chemicals or AIing your cow or even driving your quarter million dollar tractor. Many tractors and combines use GPS and computers. Way too complicated for a shade tree mechanic. Hell in my hometown, masny problems are too complicated for the local professional mechanics at the dealer. My hometown has tried call centers but they leave as soon as the tax break expires. If you have desire and ability you probably move out. Otherwise it’s teaching or medical jobs. Telecommuting jobs do happen occasionally but you need the skills first. Usually it’s someone who has moved away and gotten some skill and experience and opts to move back. I don’t think there is a solution other than the contining hollowing out of rural America. You can’t fight economics and peoples desire to live some where more exciting. The only ones who want to move to these small towns are natives of the area and there are fewer and fewer all the time. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2016, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320/208 "2016-03-17T19:06:25Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Seconded. You really need to answer this, **adaher.** I’ve asked the same question myself of protectionists. I was just offering a partial solution to the white working class’s problem consistent with our laws. One reason they are so pissed off is because companies are supposed to hire Americans first before casting about for foreigners to get visas for. Also, according to the law, the foreigners are supposed to be paid the same as Americans. Start enforcing those laws and that gets some of those dudes back to work. I also ask of people who condemn outsourcing but are okay with mass immigration why it hurts an American worker less to have a foreigner come in and take his job as opposed to having his job sent overseas. It’s the same thing to the worker. I have received answers about how domestic labor helps the economy even if the laborer is foreign, but that’s not totally true, since most foreign workers send a large part of their income back to their home country and are quite skilled at living very cheaply. I’m skeptical that your average guest worker does much for the local economy spending-wise, and certainly does less than an American worker would. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2016, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320/209 "2016-03-17T19:06:33Z")
> [@stillownedbysetters](#): > > Point taken. lol But for a surprising amount of people - at least those interviewed on tv - he is both of those things. Which makes him even more scary, as far as I’m concerned. A Chinese journalist interviewed on NPR said that despite Drumpf’s anti-China talk, young people in China admire him as a “successful businessman”. :smack: > [@PhillyGuy](#): > > Every national US politician this side of Bernie Sanders is pro-TPP, but has to prevaricate. Maybe Trump is an exception, just because of not knowing enough about it, but [Tom Friedman is correct that Trump would be for it if he did know](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/16/opinion/let-trump-make-our-trans-pacific-trade-deal.html?rref=collection%2Fcolumn%2Fthomas-l-friedman). > > Here’s Trusted Ted’s TPP flip: > > [PolitiFact | Ted Cruz changed position on Trade Promotion Authority, also called fast-track](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jul/08/ted-cruz/ted-cruz-changed-position-trade-promotion-authorit/) > > If an economically literate politician is asked whether they would be in favor of [profitable bailouts](http://money.cnn.com/2014/12/19/news/companies/government-bailouts-end/), if another world-wide great recession occurs, what do you want them to answer? The truth, that sometimes bailouts (of the company, not the owners) are needed? Then the economically literate politician loses, and someone else who is lying gets in office. Or, much worse, you get an economic illiterate who would turn a recession into an Italian-style depression. > > A large portion of the US public has a deep distrust of expertise. Most Americans with cancer [second-guess their oncologist](https://www.fredhutch.org/en/news/releases/2002/09/alternative.html) and therefore [die sooner.](http://edzardernst.com/2013/04/cancer-patients-who-use-alternative-medicine-die-sooner/) If people won’t even trust hard science when their life is at stake, how can you expect them to trust the softer (but still evidence-based) science of macro-economics? > > Distrust of experts forces good (and not-so-good) politicians to oppose what they know in their intellect to be good. It’s not a Hillary thing, but something going on in both parties and almost all democracies. Probably all democracies, but I say almost all because no one can claim knowledge of all nations. I cosign all of this, but I do want to add the caveat that every so often, government and/or the scientific community pulls something that reinforces all that distrust of expertise. I was reminded of one example by a BBC World Service story looking back on the days when UK Agriculture Minister held a photo-op of him feeding hamburger to his four year old daughter, insisting British beef was perfectly safe ([it wasn’t](http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/577667/Cordelia-Gummer-Mad-Cow-disease-BSE-scandal-25-years)). > [@adaher](#): > > There’s no viable solutions they’d like. The days when a person could grow up in a small town, graduate high school, and make a lifetime reliable living in the local industry are gone. Why would anyone want to do that? To me, \*that \*would be the soul-deadening existence that would make me turn to drink, drug, or suicide. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2016, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320/210 "2016-03-17T19:08:45Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I also ask of people who condemn outsourcing but are okay with mass immigration why it hurts an American worker less to have a foreigner come in and take his job as opposed to having his job sent overseas. A foreigner who works here pays taxes here and spends (most of) his income here. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2016, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320/211 "2016-03-17T19:11:16Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Why would anyone want to do that? To me, \*that \*would be the soul-deadening existence that would make me turn to drink, drug, or suicide. To you, perhaps. To me too, probably. But earning a reliable middle-class income at a working-class job was for most of American (and human) history a thing far out of reach of most workers. It was what they dreamed of when they had leisure to dream. It was what they fought for when they joined unions and went on strike. It was possible from the '50s through the '70s, and now they really **miss** it. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2016, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320/212 "2016-03-17T19:11:35Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Well yes and no. I’m a Republican and I have to admit that I favor Trump IN THE PRIMARIES\* (not general) and part of that is based on how the Republican Party has been dragged to the right lately I love the fact that the leadership is pissed off. Is that rational? Well kind off but then again maybe not because Trump is as crazy as Cruz and Rubio. I don’t think most Trump voters think like this. They seem to support him because they think he can do no wrong, not because they are supremely unimpressed with Cruz and Rubio. Believing this movement is a calculated strategy to dismantle the party is giving them too much credit, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2016, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320/213 "2016-03-17T19:13:06Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > A foreigner who works here pays taxes here and spends (most of) his income here. If it’s a permanent resident, yes, but a work visa holder is a) sending most of it home, and b) is getting paid less than an American worker would. I can concede that it’s slightly better than outsourcing, but in both cases employing an American worker is a far better option. Visas and guest workers should only be used where American workers are unavailable at market rates. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2016, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320/214 "2016-03-17T19:18:10Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Why would anyone want to do that? To me, \*that \*would be the soul-deadening existence that would make me turn to drink, drug, or suicide. I once toured a Siemens plant. One gun ran wire onto motor coils. All day in a huge room where aluminum was melted, the air temp felt like 100F. That would send me to the loony bin. Perhaps he had hobbies to take his mind off of it. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2016, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320/215 "2016-03-17T20:18:10Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I once toured a Siemens plant. One gun ran wire onto motor coils. All day in a huge room where aluminum was melted, the air temp felt like 100F. That would send me to the loony bin. Perhaps he had hobbies to take his mind off of it. I don’t know about motors and I don’t know about the particular plant you visited, but I toured a Siemens transformer plant in Austria, and I was told that the guy wrapping wire for transformers (giant high-MVA utility transformers, not the little Radio Shack kind) was one of the highest paid employees in the plant. So that might have helped offset the boredom some. Skilled labor in general is rewarding, regardless of its monotony. Especially if your work is appreciated. I bet there’s a lot you have to keep track of and do just right to make those transformers and motors come out fully functional and high quality, and with the right incentives, it could be a satisfying career. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2016, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320/216 "2016-03-17T20:23:21Z")
> [@moldmonkey](#): > > You don’t want the local HS dropout … AIing your cow That’s called a successful date in Greeley, Colorado. ---
**Author:** ![stillownedbysetters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/41988e/32.png) [@stillownedbysetters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stillownedbysetters)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2016, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320/217 "2016-03-17T20:40:16Z")
It took me years working with factory workers to come to an understanding on this, but there are average people with average intellects who enjoy doing one thing over and over and doing it competently and well. They aren’t bored by it, they aren’t desperate to get away from it. They thrive on it. These are the people who are intimidated by mentally challenging jobs that require mental agility and endless variety. They can be amazingly skilled at the one job they do, can be observant and even innovative. Most of our best process improvements didn’t come from our engineering staff, they came from our floor workers. Some of these guys would even go home and build prototypes of gears or motors or some such part for which they had an improvement idea. Incredibly useful and valuable stuff. These are the guys who impressed foreign nations with good old American ‘can do’ during the two World Wars. I’d venture to say that most of us here on this board aren’t constructed that way, but there are plenty of people who are, and who are very unhappy that this type of work that was so ideal for them is going away and they are having a tough time finding a suitable substitute. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2016, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320/218 "2016-03-18T00:48:45Z")
> [@stillownedbysetters](#): > > It took me years working with factory workers to come to an understanding on this, but there are average people with average intellects who enjoy doing one thing over and over and doing it competently and well. They aren’t bored by it, they aren’t desperate to get away from it. They thrive on it. These are the people who are intimidated by mentally challenging jobs that require mental agility and endless variety. They can be amazingly skilled at the one job they do, can be observant and even innovative. Most of our best process improvements didn’t come from our engineering staff, they came from our floor workers. Some of these guys would even go home and build prototypes of gears or motors or some such part for which they had an improvement idea. Incredibly useful and valuable stuff. > > These are the guys who impressed foreign nations with good old American ‘can do’ during the two World Wars. > > I’d venture to say that most of us here on this board aren’t constructed that way, but there are plenty of people who are, and who are very unhappy that this type of work that was so ideal for them is going away and they are having a tough time finding a suitable substitute. Well, what can you do? We can’t un-invent the light bulb to make work for lamplighters, we can’t reverse automation to make work for factory hands. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2016, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320/219 "2016-03-18T00:56:32Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > That’s called a successful date in Greeley, Colorado. Hey, I used to live there! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2016, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320/220 "2016-03-18T00:57:41Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Hey, I used to live there! Did you have successful dates? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320.md?page=12)