# Help me understand the anger of Trump voters / working class white people. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 8, 2016, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320 "2016-03-08T19:54:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320/41 "2016-03-09T01:36:36Z")
A list of reasons include: 1. Conservative whites are seeing their power erode. A big deal was made of how Obama lost the white vote as badly as Dukakis, but still won his election. Conservative whites are seeing the end of their tenure and they are not going quietly into the good night. Plus the democratic party is generally the party of those outside the power establishment. White men have been at the center of it, so their needs do not really list high compared to minorities, women, etc. 2. Outsourcing of decent paying jobs for working class people 3. Immigration is driving down prices of remaining jobs for working class whites. 4. The government seems to only care about the poor and the rich. The rich get tons of benefits and tax cuts. The poor get tons of benefits and tax cuts (free healthcare, free education, subsidized utilities and rent, etc). The working class get to pay taxes w/o getting benefits for it (at least that is how some of them feel). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320/42 "2016-03-09T01:39:52Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > You believe the Democrats tax and spend class warfare politics . . . :rolleyes: **If only!** > [@octopus](#): > > Yet you don’t see how those same policies incentivized moving production off shore and into the black/gray market with illegal labor? No, and neither do you, though you might imagine so. That had to do with neoliberalism and globalization and technological developments facilitating same, and nothing at all to do with welfare policies, or, to any great extent, labor policies. > [@octopus](#): > > Rewarding stupidity, destructive behavior, and sloth . . . . . . has nothing to do with any of this. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320/43 "2016-03-09T01:46:52Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Good jobs that will pay the bills are very, very hard to get. Low skilled jobs like lawn care and construction helper etc. you could rely on in the past if you were in a pinch are harder to get and are filled will immigrants. Progressives tend to discount white working class frustration on this score as if it’s no big deal. Many **Democrats** might. No **progressives** do. Nobody backing Sanders right now discounts any of that – the movement is **about** that – but, they also pay some attention to the sources of black working class frustration and others’. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320/44 "2016-03-09T01:49:35Z")
> [@sleestak](#): > > Think you can manage to be any more condescending? > > Slee 🙂 There, there, **sleestak,** don’t worry your pretty little head about such things. _pat_pat\* Run along, now. What do I win? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320/45 "2016-03-09T01:52:32Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > 1. Immigration is driving down prices of remaining jobs for working class whites. Cite, for an actual documented causal relationship? ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320/46 "2016-03-09T04:27:41Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Good jobs that will pay the bills are very, very hard to get. Low skilled jobs like lawn care and construction helper etc. you could rely on in the past if you were in a pinch are harder to get and are filled will immigrants. Progressives tend to discount white working class frustration on this score as if it’s no big deal. For many in desperate circumstances it’s a very BFD. This kind of hyperbole gets us nowhere; it’s worthy of a presidential sound bite. “very, very hard”? What percentage of people in the US do you think can pay their bills? 10%? 5%? ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320/47 "2016-03-09T04:53:00Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > I kind of understand this. I get the sentiment. What I don’t get is the grouping. It is an us vs. them, but in reality the “them” are the rich plutocrats of the world like the Koch brothers and Sheldon Adelson. I think the average working class white person has a lot more in common with a working class African-American or Hispanic person than they do with Charles Koch. Why they would think the opposite is what I don’t get. I think you misunderstand Trump’s campaign. Trump bashes plutocrats constantly. All the time. If you were to follow him around to rallies, you would hear him attacking “the establishment” far more than you would hear him going on about racial issues. It was widely noted that Trump’s favorite punching bag was Jeb Bush, at least until he dropped out of the race. Jeb is a rich, white man. So is Martin O’Malley, who Trump [spent time mocking](http://www.steynonline.com/7408/notes-on-a-phenomenon) on the campaign trail. Trump’s main target is the rich and powerful. Now don’t get me wrong, I am well aware of Trump’s inflammatory statements about Mexican immigrants and other groups. Point is, while media coverage of his campaign is mainly focused on these things, Trump’s main focus is attacking the Establishment. His message is not, “Illegal immigrants are the cause of all your problems.” His message is, “The establishment is the cause of all your problems, and the presence of illegal immigrants is one such establishment-caused problem.” (Of course, while Trump tells his fans that he’ll defeat the evil zillionaires on Wall Street, he is a zillionaire himself. Then again, the same is true of Hillary.) ---
**Author:** ![funky\_little\_lee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e95f7d/32.png) [@funky\_little\_lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/funky_little_lee)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320/48 "2016-03-09T05:33:26Z")
**Help me understand the anger of Trump voters / working class white people.** It’s not that hard. Rich people look down on us because we’re not rich. White collar people look down on us (you need look no further than these boards to see that) because they think we’re stupid. Liberals hate us and patronize us because we’re more conservative than them. Conservatives hate us because we’re pro-labor. Non-whites hate us because we’re white. Poor people hate us because they think we’re lording it over them because we have jobs. The rich keep getting richer, the poor keep getting more freebies, and it all rests on our backs and we get nothing. I hope that answers the question. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320/49 "2016-03-09T05:39:48Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > (Of course, while Trump tells his fans that he’ll defeat the evil zillionaires on Wall Street, he is a zillionaire himself. Then again, the same is true of Hillary.) Being a billionaire doesn’t mean you’re evil. Markus Persson is a billionaire because he invented a toy loved by millions of people. You can’t fault him for that. Unfortunately, Trump _is_ evil. Making money by selling people false hope at your casino is a lot worse than making money by selling them a $15 construction toy for your computer. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320/50 "2016-03-09T06:17:08Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Your children would grow up seeing that social justice works to make life better for all of us. This is an example of spin. Most people who object to the BLM movement, for instance, don’t think of themselves as opposing social justice, they think that supporting the police \*is \*social justice. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320/51 "2016-03-09T06:56:28Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Being a billionaire doesn’t mean you’re evil. Markus Persson is a billionaire because he invented a toy loved by millions of people. You can’t fault him for that. > > Unfortunately, Trump _is_ evil. Making money by selling people false hope at your casino is a lot worse than making money by selling them a $15 construction toy for your computer. I wonder who runs a more fair game, private casinos or government lotteries? ---
**Author:** ![Sputnikkk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Sputnikkk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sputnikkk)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320/52 "2016-03-09T08:41:08Z")
If you want to understand the anger of the working class white people, go onto youtube and search Trump Rally and then go to the comments section and just ask them questions, you can talk to these very angry people, you will be surprised over what they say. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320/53 "2016-03-09T09:39:37Z")
The anger thing is puzzling to me as a non-American. The quality of life for many people in the US is really very high even compared to most developed countries. Every time I visit the US it’s like many people are under a spell. I’m fortunate enough to be invited into a family’s home, which is huge, and they have a couple SUVs or whatever, a fridge that probably wouldn’t fit in my apartment, in a leafy suburb, and they’ll talk about america being in crisis (And as a guest, I’m limited in how far I can ask WTH…) I guess certain parts of society have _stagnated_ somewhat, but it’s not easy to find stats that have gotten _worse_ (and, like the OP says, if income inequality were the thing getting people riled up, then why turn to those pledging lower taxes for the rich)? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320/54 "2016-03-09T14:39:18Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Even me? 😛 Yeah, I think racism is definitely a big part of this…I agree with much of what iiandyiiii said in the first post in this thread. But there is another large element to all this. However, in most of these threads it’s only the racism angle that’s talked about. Its a lot of other things too. There is a feeling that politicians are putting the interest of big money ahead of the interests of Americans. There is a feeling that we have been getting the short end of many of these trade deals. Its one thing to tell people that they have to stop making buggy whips and start making cars. its another thing to tell people to stop making cars and start making Freedom Fries. There is a real sense that large companies have a seat at the table when negotiating free trade deals but labor does not. There is a feeling that our unskilled labor market is getting glutted by economic refugees from south of the border who are willing to do back breaking work for subsistence wages. Sure illegal aliens work hard and are just trying to make a better life for themselves and their families but every country in the world controls their borders and limits how much cheap labor enters their country. Why aren’t the liberals telling us to be more like the Europeans when they Europeans try to keep out immigrants? This is fallow ground for racism, jingoism and nativism to flourish and the Republican side of the argument is much more fertile grounds than the Democratic side. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320/55 "2016-03-09T14:48:09Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I’m singling this statement out, because I think it speaks to the core of what a lot of Trump supporters believe. Now most of this is based of anecdotal, so take it as you will. > > The average blue collar/working class white person is a proud, simple folk. They don’t have aspirations of working in some fancy Wall Street hedge fund or launching some app in Silicon Valley. Although he heard that nerdy kid from freshman year who “didn’t quite fit” might be up to something like that. > > All working class people really want is to go to their job, earn enough to pay their bills, have a beer with their pals and do some barbequing with the family on the weekends. Possibly send Junior to State U so he can do a bit better. > > Now in the past, they have always been able to find a job and so long as they put in the work, they could keep it. The only people who had trouble keeping jobs were people who slacked off or showed up drunk and got fired. Maybe people from the minority sections of town who always seemed to be in some sort of legal trouble. > > So for these people, as more and more jobs get shipped overseas and work gets harder to come by, they lose their sense of pride and become very resentful. They don’t understand concepts like globalization or industry disruption, but they understand not being able to pay their bills and they see the government working very hard to give more entitlements to the very people who in their minds weren’t willing to put in the work in the first place. So as they become “those people” they despise, they don’t think “yes, we could really use those social safety nets”. They think “I can find a job because ‘those people’ are lazy and shiftless dragging everyone else down and those fancy double-talking politicians are letting it happen.” > Basically, in a nutshell, these are people who tend to live in a relatively simple and insular world that they understand. As technology and globalization intrude on that world, making it more diverse, more complex, more dependent on vast integrated networks and more confusing, it makes those people angry and frightened. I think this comes the closest to the truth as anything posted to date. The old American dream is dead. No longer can the average guy coast through high school playing a sport every season, graduate and walk into a factory and get a job that he can retire from with a defined benefit pension, send his kids through school, pay off the house, and enjoy the simple things in life. It isn’t asking that much from life. But they see this life vanishing before their eyes. If their plant didn’t close down, one in their city did. They listen to Hate Radio and there is a never ending list of “others” to blame for their plight. Their Facebook feeds are strewn with stuff like “THEY NO LONGER SAY THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE IN SCHOOLS BECAUSE THEY DON’T WANT TO OFFEND ANYONE. SHARE IF THIS IS WRONG.” It doesn’t matter if the facts are completely wrong and they indeed are still saying the pledge, it resonates with them and the hatred begins to boil. So they want to blame someone. And there are many who are quite willing to exploit this for ratings points or political gain. They believe that Mexicans cross the border and immediately get free housing, free education, free healthcare, and simultaneously take jobs from Americans. It doesn’t matter if none of it is true. They believe it is true because they want and need it to be true. They see terror attacks in Paris and California and can’t believe that anyone else doesn’t think all Muslims are terrorists. They can’t handle fifty shades of gray, their world has ZERO shades of gray. It’s all black and white. Us vs them. A guy like Trump comes along and he hits those fears perfectly and amplifies them like a perfectly calibrated tuning fork. For years they’ve been hearing “don’t like Obama? Then you must support everything the Wall Street Journal editorial board says.” In their views they’re forced to choose between the party that wants to give more of what they’ve got to THEM, and the party that thinks all things can be resolved with giving tax cuts to the wealthy. They say “screw that, there must be another way” and Trump is right their to exploit that. Never mind that he has no specific plan, he wants you to believe that he can do it by the sheer force of his Donaldness. And his gullible flock need nothing more than that than to march like lemmings behind him. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320/56 "2016-03-09T14:56:50Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > I think you misunderstand Trump’s campaign. Trump bashes plutocrats constantly. All the time. If you were to follow him around to rallies, you would hear him attacking “the establishment” far more than you would hear him going on about racial issues. Yeah, but he doesn’t mean the 1%, he means the **political** establishment that works for them. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320/57 "2016-03-09T14:57:57Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I wonder who runs a more fair game, private casinos or government lotteries? Well, they’re both taxes on people who can’t do math, but the government lotteries are probably fairer games. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320/58 "2016-03-09T17:12:09Z")
> [@funky\_little\_lee](#): > > It’s not that hard. > > Rich people look down on us because we’re not rich. Perhaps. But you also seem to vote for candidates and policies that further the interests of those rich. > [@funky\_little\_lee](#): > > White collar people look down on us (you need look no further than these boards to see that) because they think we’re stupid. If you’re anything like my wife’s family, it’s not because you’re “stupid”. It’s because they have such a strong opinion about the world for someone who inhabits a very small part of it. It’s like people who come to Manhattan and eat at the same Red Lobster or TGIFriday’s they can eat at in any strip mall in the country. Or people who call sushi “bait” because it is uncooked fish. No one is asking you to become a sophisticated world traveler. But don’t be so dismissive or disparaging towards new things either. > [@funky\_little\_lee](#): > > Liberals hate us and patronize us because we’re more conservative than them. Because “conservative” often translates to "I want my freedom to marginalize gays, minorities and women, prevent women from having abortions, keep absurd numbers of dangerous firearms and make Christianity the de-facto national religion of the USA. > [@funky\_little\_lee](#): > > Conservatives hate us because we’re pro-labor. How are you pro-labor? > [@funky\_little\_lee](#): > > Non-whites hate us because we’re white. No one “hates you because you’re white”. They hate that you complain about how persecuted you feel when you have all the jobs and don’t have to worry about being randomly harassed by the police. > [@funky\_little\_lee](#): > > Poor people hate us because they think we’re lording it over them because we have jobs. Kind of like the rich people I guess. > [@funky\_little\_lee](#): > > The rich keep getting richer, the poor keep getting more freebies, and it all rests on our backs and we get nothing. > > I hope that answers the question. It certainly provides significant insight into the sort of thinking we are talking about. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320/59 "2016-03-09T18:09:51Z")
> [@funky\_little\_lee](#): > > Liberals hate us and patronize us because we’re more conservative than them. As well they may and should, yes? There may have been a time when some forms of conservatism were morally or economically defensible, but that time is long past. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320/60 "2016-03-09T18:19:41Z")
E.g., anticommunism was always defensible, even if many conservatives (and liberals, too) took it way too far, like, into Vietnam . . . but, Communism is no longer a relevant factor anyway, and American conservatism **has nothing left** that is defensible. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-anger-of-trump-voters-working-class-white-people/748320.md?page=4)