# Help me understand the horse meat drama **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 25, 2013, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-horse-meat-drama/651340 "2013-02-25T12:21:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-horse-meat-drama/651340/21 "2013-02-25T14:45:22Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Here’s the thing; they could have been. What if whoever decided to slip in cheap horse meat had decided to slip in cheap (as in supposed-to-be-destroyed) infected beef instead? Or who knows what else; a compromised supply chain means you have no idea what gruesome stuff will get slipped in to save a buck. I recall in one of the other threads on this someone jokingly mentioning that with the involvement of Romanian organized crime, maybe they’d decided to use it to dispose of bodies… That is, indeed, the thing. We’ve had BSE, we’ve had foot and mouth, we still have livestock across Europe affected by Caesium-137 fallout from Chernobyl: and in each case we’ve been reassured by governments and the food industry that stringent checks and controls are in place, and that the affected animals cannot enter the human food supply chain. Now it turns out that not only can undocumented animals enter the food supply chain, but that there are some products from trusted household names that contain little else. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-horse-meat-drama/651340/22 "2013-02-25T14:52:34Z")
I agree with most of what has been posted so far except, at least here in the US, the ick factor is a huge part of the story. If it was turkey meat that was found instead of horse, this would not be as big a story. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-horse-meat-drama/651340/23 "2013-02-25T15:16:11Z")
Many people have food taboos. You may not have them, and they may not make sense to you, but that doesn’t change the fact that they exist. If people don’t want to eat horse - for whatever reason - then they have the right not to eat horse. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-horse-meat-drama/651340/24 "2013-02-25T15:16:55Z")
> [@Alley\_Dweller](#): > > Is it possible to have some sort of allergy (or other physical reaction) to horse meat but not to beef? Doubtful. I am deathly allergic (as in anaphylaxis) to horse dander, but I had no reaction at all to eating horse. I’m also British, and any British person afraid to eat beef at this point has been living under a rock. It’s not an “ew” thing, it’s a “if there’s horse in it, what else is there” thing. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-horse-meat-drama/651340/25 "2013-02-25T15:41:00Z")
> [@solosam](#): > > Not the same at all. If you have a moral objection to eating animals, then the same objection should apply to all animals equally, and not to differentiate the “cute” animals from the “food” animals. Horses are not people, they are animals… even though they usually fall into the “cute” category. > > The way I see it, it’s not that different from eating a can of tuna. Yeah, it says “Tuna” on the can and 95% of it probably is… but I know darn well there are some dolphins and sea turtles in there, too. And I eat it anyway. > > But, all of the above points about sloppy controls and horse medications are good points. I agree with **Alessan** about food taboos. And there isn’t any dolphin or sea turtle in anyone’s tuna. The concern about dolphins and sea turtles is that they get caught in tuna nets and get injured or die, not that they get processed and included in the tins. They are killed and then wasted. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-horse-meat-drama/651340/26 "2013-02-25T16:45:56Z")
> [@solosam](#): > > Not the same at all. If you have a moral objection to eating animals, then the same objection should apply to all animals equally, and not to differentiate the “cute” animals from the “food” animals. Obviously, though, most people don’t work that way, which is why we don’t see cat, dog, and horse in the supermarket. > [@solosam](#): > > Horses are not people, they are animals… Meat is meat, though, and this is just a food taboo like anyone else’s. ---
**Author:** ![heathen\_earthling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/13edae/32.png) [@heathen\_earthling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/heathen_earthling)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-horse-meat-drama/651340/27 "2013-02-25T17:07:03Z")
> [@Telperion](#): > > The problem is not that horses aren’t tasty, it’s that to adulterate something relatively cheap such as ground beef and still make a profit you’d have to use the absolutely cheapest horse meat on the market At supermarkets in Quebec, ground horse is openly sold as such, and is usually cheaper than ground beef. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-horse-meat-drama/651340/28 "2013-02-25T18:07:42Z")
> [@Alley\_Dweller](#): > > Is it possible to have some sort of allergy (or other physical reaction) to horse meat but not to beef? Yes, but I suspect the majority of people raising a fuss about this are not the allergic. ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-horse-meat-drama/651340/29 "2013-02-25T18:10:53Z")
> [@solosam](#): > > Not the same at all. If you have a moral objection to eating animals, then the same objection should apply to all animals equally, and not to differentiate the “cute” animals from the “food” animals. Horses are not people, they are animals… even though they usually fall into the “cute” category. > > The way I see it, it’s not that different from eating a can of tuna. Yeah, it says “Tuna” on the can and 95% of it probably is… but I know darn well there are some dolphins and sea turtles in there, too. And I eat it anyway. > > But, all of the above points about sloppy controls and horse medications are good points. Cows and pigs are cute, and also damn tasty. Your post sounds like militant PETA crap. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-horse-meat-drama/651340/30 "2013-02-25T18:23:51Z")
That the meat was mislabeled and that it was introduced into the supply chain without appropriate medical guarantees. I eat lamb, rabbit, kid (the goat kind, not the kindergarten kind) and piglet - and I’ve even killed a rabbit I was going to eat. Nothing wrong with eating something that’s cute but which happened to be slower than me. One of the countries affected is France, where horse is a common meat: the problem is not that it neighed, it’s that it was supposed to moo but it didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-horse-meat-drama/651340/31 "2013-02-25T18:27:43Z")
> [@solosam](#): > > Not the same at all. If you have a moral objection to eating animals, then the same objection should apply to all animals equally, and not to differentiate the “cute” animals from the “food” animals. No. ---
**Author:** ![Telperion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telperion/32/509_2.png) [@Telperion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperion)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-horse-meat-drama/651340/32 "2013-02-25T18:29:10Z")
> [@heathen\_earthling](#): > > At supermarkets in Quebec, ground horse is openly sold as such, and is usually cheaper than ground beef. You presumably don’t buy European meat in industrial quantities, so I can’t see how that is relevant to any of this. Horse meat is a bit more expensive than beef here simply because there’s less of a market for it and hence less of it is produced. This means there is also less of the cheaper cuts for the packaged food industry, which leads to me to the stated conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-horse-meat-drama/651340/33 "2013-02-25T19:44:43Z")
Food taboos may be arbitrary but they are still meaningful. If an Orthodox Jew was served meat labelled as Kosher and it turned out to contain pork, (s)he’d have a right to be pissed and you’d be an ass for not respecting that. A Muslim with Hallal. A vegan served meat and told it was seiten. If you were served dinner and it turned out, unbeknownst to you to have contained your cat Fluffy that you had not seen all day, you’d be upset, and should be. It does not matter that others do not keep Kosher or Hallel. Are not vegan. That others enjoy eating cat. That you might even be willing to _try_ cat so long as it was not Fluffy and you had a choice about it. Not sure if that is what pisses people off though – just think about the “pink slime” debacle. The stuff was fine protein too, collagen mostly, and _was_ beef. But many got very upset because it was not what they thought they were buying (even though some us love our collagen in other forms). ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-horse-meat-drama/651340/34 "2013-02-25T20:47:57Z")
In the USA, most horses are viewed as “pets”, not work animals. You don’t eat your friends. In times and areas where horses are just another farm animal, this is not a big deal. ---
**Author:** ![Enkel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/df705f/32.png) [@Enkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enkel)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-horse-meat-drama/651340/35 "2013-02-25T20:56:24Z")
Oh, come on. Horse sold as beef is just one more step toward Soylent Green ( [Soylent Green - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soylent_Green) ) ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-horse-meat-drama/651340/36 "2013-02-25T21:03:08Z")
I agree that it’s disturbing on the level that in order for this to profitable, that must have been some really shitty horse meat butchered under extremely questionable circumstances. Normally, whenever you hear the argument that “they” are secretly adding ingredient X to product Y, you can laugh it off as impossible and stupid because it wouldn’t be profitable to do such a thing. I would imagine this would be the case for the vast majority of acceptable horse meat. The fact that they actually WERE secretly adding horse meat to ground beef is extremely disgusting only so far as that it must have been awful, awful meat. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-horse-meat-drama/651340/37 "2013-02-26T01:04:39Z")
As I understand it, it’s got a lot to do with a suplus of horses in Romania where they changed traffic laws, rendering horses useless/worthless - No doubt the animals were of quite assorted quality, but that’s still not exactly the problem - it’s that in order for this to have happened on such a broad scale, almost any other kind of adulteration or contamination is suddenly a more plausible possibility. I’ve not yet talked to anyone here who is really grossed out by the thought of eating horse - even if it’s an old nag (and the same people do get grossed out by other things such as black pudding) - it’s really the betrayal of trust and the “what else could this mean” factor. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-horse-meat-drama/651340/38 "2013-02-26T04:01:53Z")
> [@solosam](#): > > Not the same at all. If you have a moral objection to eating animals, then the same objection should apply to all animals equally, and not to differentiate the “cute” animals from the “food” animals. Horses are not people, they are animals… even though they usually fall into the “cute” category. > > The way I see it, it’s not that different from eating a can of tuna. Yeah, it says “Tuna” on the can and 95% of it probably is… but I know darn well there are some dolphins and sea turtles in there, too. And I eat it anyway. > > But, all of the above points about sloppy controls and horse medications are good points. I agree with **Alessan** about food taboos. And there isn’t any dolphin or sea turtle in anyone’s tuna. The concern about dolphins and sea turtles is that they get caught in tuna nets and get injured or die, not that they get processed and included in the tins. They are killed and then wasted. ---
**Author:** ![heathen\_earthling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/13edae/32.png) [@heathen\_earthling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/heathen_earthling)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-horse-meat-drama/651340/39 "2013-02-26T04:25:35Z")
> [@Telperion](#): > > > [@heathen\_earthling](#): > > > > At supermarkets in Quebec, ground horse is openly sold as such, and is usually cheaper than ground beef. > > You presumably don’t buy European meat in industrial quantities, so I can’t see how that is relevant to any of this. Horse meat is a bit more expensive than beef here simply because there’s less of a market for it and hence less of it is produced. This means there is also less of the cheaper cuts for the packaged food industry, which leads to me to the stated conclusion. The market for horse is much smaller than the market for beef in Quebec, too. If a supermarket has horse products, it will be ground horse and/or packaged fondue slices. I could see the effect on the price being opposite at the retail level: Beef is popular, so the store can get away with charging more and still not have a problem selling it before it expires. Horse is a lot less popular, so the store would rather sell it with a lower markup than risk having it not sell at all. But you’re right, I don’t buy European meat in industrial quantities, so I’m just speculating about this. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-horse-meat-drama/651340/40 "2013-02-26T05:05:34Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > As I understand it, it’s got a lot to do with a suplus of horses in Romania where they changed traffic laws, rendering horses useless/worthless - No doubt the animals were of quite assorted quality, but that’s still not exactly the problem - it’s that in order for this to have happened on such a broad scale, almost any other kind of adulteration or contamination is suddenly a more plausible possibility. > > I’ve not yet talked to anyone here who is really grossed out by the thought of eating horse - even if it’s an old nag (and the same people do get grossed out by other things such as black pudding) - it’s really the betrayal of trust and the “what else could this mean” factor. Well, there’s another issue. If they are sneaking it in, that means the meat may not be properly inspected. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-horse-meat-drama/651340.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-horse-meat-drama/651340.md?page=3)