# Help me understand the way these girls thought **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 5, 2011, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-way-these-girls-thought/566459 "2011-01-05T04:51:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-way-these-girls-thought/566459/41 "2011-01-06T15:32:23Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Wasn’t Rex Harrison in _My Fair Lady_ the inspiration for the voice of Stewie on _Family Guy_? That right there kind of marks it as creepy. And gay. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-way-these-girls-thought/566459/42 "2011-01-06T15:46:19Z")
> [@a35362](#): > > **BrainGlutton** , your passage from Shaw is interesting. Are these confirmed bachelors closeted gays or is it just a matter of the romantic idealist who never marries because no real-life woman is ever good enough for him, I wonder? > > Not that that’s what Shaw was saying, necessarily. I read it as saying that “that sort of man never marries” – and, perhaps, never has sex with a dude either – because he is in denial so deep that he confuses his esthetic appreciation/idealism of women with an erotic appreciation; and, so, somehow, something or other always seems to come between him and women he thinks he is in love with, that prevents marriage, but it is a thing he never consciously identifies and any name he gives it is an excuse. (I presume many gay men **do** have an esthetic appreciation of women, or how would you find any in the fashion industry?) The phrase “The Life Force passes it [the poetic temperament] by” is apt for a sexual orientation that forestalls reproduction. But, that might not have been what Shaw meant at all. The whole point of the play, and of the “Don Juan in Hell” subplay, is that the Life Force is **not** poetic or esthetic, it is something entirely different. That is why you will find the first worshipped in Heaven and the second in Hell. _Man and Superman_ dates from a time in Shaw’s life when he fancied himself a philosopher. (Mistakenly, IMO.) To get some insight, read the preface to the play, [“Epistle Dedicatory to Arthur Bingham Walkley.”](http://www.gutenberg.org/files/3328/3328-h/3328-h.htm#2H_4_0001) Or, he might have meant both at once. We have to guess, because the idea that Tavy was closeted-and-in-denial was something Shaw could not have made explicit in a play, then; for the same sociocultural reasons that such deep denial existed. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-way-these-girls-thought/566459/43 "2011-01-06T15:48:46Z")
What makes Higgins attractive to teenage girls is that he is a rich older man who sweeps into Eliza’s life and rescues her from a life of drudgery and poverty. Then the power of their love overcomes all the obstacles in their way. Eliza could have a comfortable life with Freddy and Higgins could have gone on with the comfortable and happy life he had, but their love led them to upset everything for each other. This kind of powerful love is very appealing to the average melodrama loving teenage girl. Higgins’ treatment of Eliza is abysmal, but the sad fact is many adolescent girls prefer men who treat them poorly and thus have a different reaction to their dynamic. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-way-these-girls-thought/566459/44 "2011-01-06T16:51:20Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Thus, when he realizes her actions are more like him, he wants her back. The final line can be read several ways – that Higgins loves Eliza but is incapable of expressing it, so he does what he always does: order her around (the most romantic interpretation), or that Higgins has learned nothing (possible, but I think the previous one fits better). But Higgins comes to see Eliza being assertive, and he likes that. Everybody always misremembers the last line as Higgins ordering Eliza to get his slippers, but he doesn’t. He says “where the devil are my slippers.” For the first time in the movie, he’s _not_ ordering her around. ---
**Author:** ![Skara\_Brae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@Skara\_Brae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skara_Brae)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-way-these-girls-thought/566459/45 "2011-01-06T16:58:36Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Everybody always misremembers the last line as Higgins ordering Eliza to get his slippers, but he doesn’t. He says “where the devil are my slippers.” For the first time in the movie, he’s _not_ ordering her around. I think this line also acknowledges, along with the housekeeper’s dialogue before, that she does have a place in his life (and in the household). Its not the romatic ideal, he doesn’t sweep her into a kiss or anything, but she is needed and desired there. Considering the lonely life she had before, (and her treatment by her father, who basically sold her for 5 pounds) it is a clear improvement. In a traditional romance, she would have gone off with Freddy, and Higgins would have filled the “fairy godmother” role. ---
**Author:** ![a35362](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@a35362](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/a35362)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-way-these-girls-thought/566459/46 "2011-01-06T17:09:21Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > What makes Higgins attractive to teenage girls is that he is a rich older man who sweeps into Eliza’s life and rescues her from a life of drudgery and poverty. Then the power of their love overcomes all the obstacles in their way. Eliza could have a comfortable life with Freddy and Higgins could have gone on with the comfortable and happy life he had, but their love led them to upset everything for each other. This kind of powerful love is very appealing to the average melodrama loving teenage girl. Higgins’ treatment of Eliza is abysmal, but the sad fact is many adolescent girls prefer men who treat them poorly and thus have a different reaction to their dynamic. Higgins is a bully, but mostly in the sense that a drill sergeant is, I think. “Look, Eliza, _you_ asked _me_ to teach you to speak as a lady speaks. I am doing everything I can, using everything I know. We have been at this for 18 hours a day for five weeks [or whatever it is] and you have made hardly any progress. Now, can you do this or not?” ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-way-these-girls-thought/566459/47 "2011-01-06T17:26:46Z")
In college, we read **Wuthering Heights**. Almost all of the girls in class thought Heathcilff to be a romantic yet misguided character, and forgave him for all his monstrous trespasses because, “he looooves her!!!” ---
**Author:** ![a35362](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@a35362](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/a35362)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-way-these-girls-thought/566459/48 "2011-01-06T17:45:24Z")
Did they think Cathy was a manipulative little tease? I anyone in that house could have been civil to one another for five minutes, you wouldn’t have a story. Nineteenth century Jerry Springer. Today it would be a restraining order and a court-ordered psychiatrist. Gah. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-way-these-girls-thought/566459/49 "2011-01-06T18:09:05Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Isn’t Ruddigore a Gilbert and Sullivan comic opera? Damn you 've got me confused now. It could be that I’ve been ascribing all the wrong motives to a completely different work all these years. I blame my parents myself, that and the drugs. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-way-these-girls-thought/566459/50 "2011-01-06T18:11:26Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Isn’t Ruddigore a Gilbert and Sullivan comic opera? No, it is a character from the old comic strip [_Hairbreadth Harry._](http://www.toonopedia.com/hairbr.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-way-these-girls-thought/566459/51 "2011-01-06T18:11:26Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > In college, we read **Wuthering Heights**. Almost all of the girls in class thought Heathcilff to be a romantic yet misguided character, and forgave him for all his monstrous trespasses because, “he looooves her!!!” Nah, he lost me for keeps when he hung the dog. I was shocked when my grandma told me she’d named my mom after Cathy…turns out she only ever saw the movie version. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-way-these-girls-thought/566459/52 "2011-01-06T18:16:51Z")
> [@a35362](#): > > Higgins is a bully, but mostly in the sense that a drill sergeant is, I think. “Look, Eliza, _you_ asked _me_ to teach you to speak as a lady speaks. I am doing everything I can, using everything I know. We have been at this for 18 hours a day for five weeks [or whatever it is] and you have made hardly any progress. Now, can you do this or not?” His insensitivity is in regarding her as an experimental subject, not a person. > [@](#): > > HIGGINS. Very well, then, what on earth is all this fuss about? The girl doesn’t belong to anybody—is no use to anybody but me. [He goes to Mrs. Pearce and begins coaxing]. You can adopt her, Mrs. Pearce: I’m sure a daughter would be a great amusement to you. Now don’t make any more fuss. Take her downstairs; and— > > MRS. PEARCE. But what’s to become of her? Is she to be paid anything? Do be sensible, sir. > > HIGGINS. Oh, pay her whatever is necessary: put it down in the housekeeping book. [Impatiently] What on earth will she want with money? She’ll have her food and her clothes. She’ll only drink if you give her money. > > LIZA [turning on him] Oh you are a brute. It’s a lie: nobody ever saw the sign of liquor on me. [She goes back to her chair and plants herself there defiantly]. > > PICKERING [in good-humored remonstrance] Does it occur to you, Higgins, that the girl has some feelings? > > HIGGINS [looking critically at her] Oh no, I don’t think so. Not any feelings that we need bother about. [Cheerily] Have you, Eliza? At least he **starts** at that point. ---
**Author:** ![a35362](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@a35362](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/a35362)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-way-these-girls-thought/566459/53 "2011-01-06T18:32:42Z")
Well, I never said he was an angel. 😃 He’s definitely the kind of man who would teach a boy to swim by throwing him overboard. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-way-these-girls-thought/566459/54 "2011-01-06T18:39:06Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No, it is a character from the old comic strip [_Hairbreadth Harry._](http://www.toonopedia.com/hairbr.htm) [I think it’s both.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruddigore) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-way-these-girls-thought/566459/55 "2011-01-06T21:29:35Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > [I think it’s both.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruddigore) I knew that, I should included the ;). ---
**Author:** ![a35362](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@a35362](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/a35362)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-way-these-girls-thought/566459/56 "2011-01-06T21:54:02Z")
I started [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=118861) back in June of 2002 discussing the ending of _My Fair Lady_ ( **Fenris** is always interesting.). ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-way-these-girls-thought/566459/57 "2011-01-06T21:57:56Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I knew that, I should included the ;). Oops, sorry! 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-understand-the-way-these-girls-thought/566459.md?page=2)