# Help my friend-a fundie **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 4, 2002, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-my-friend-a-fundie/130838 "2002-10-04T15:06:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2002, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-my-friend-a-fundie/130838/21 "2002-10-05T16:38:27Z")
A religious topic that also calls for witnesssing(albeit from atheists)? I think I’ll just move this over to Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2002, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-my-friend-a-fundie/130838/22 "2002-10-05T17:06:13Z")
okay. Well, the movie was better than I’d thought. I enjoy kids movies-in the last 9 years (my son is 9 and a half) I’ve only seen kids movies. I’m not a movie person. cj: that is a brilliant idea, comparing her attitude to Jonah’s. We are friends because I don’t have very many church people don’t seem to want to hang with you (maybe casue i don’t have a car, i dunno). And we both are christians. On the way to the movie though, she asked me if I was pro-abortion. 🙂 I told her I was “pro-choice”, which is what it really is. I told her I am not pro abortion-I wish no one ever needed one! I told her I had one, and was glad it was legal! She said we all make mistakes. I think with the homsoexuality issue, I am fighting a lost cause, but I could ask her if all homosexuals are going to hell-Greg the homosexual who lies, steals, etc. or Ron- the homosexual who prays every night and tries to help out people less well off than he. Heck, I’ve got to at least try to get through. I am quite the christian alone-most christians I know are way to the right-I just am not and do not see it as conflicting with my relationship with God. politics is something separate, to me. I printed this out, and will give it to her, but will also print more if I get more posts. Thanks. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2002, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-my-friend-a-fundie/130838/23 "2002-10-05T19:10:01Z")
here’s what I’d say: “My favorite Bible quote is ‘Judge not, lest ye be judged.’ I think of it whenever I find myself trying to be as God and determine who is a sinner and who is not. I am humble enough to know that it is not my place, that my place is to keep my own house in order. Which is certainly freeing, let me tell you! I just try to practice the love that Christ taught us to practice and leave the rest up to Him. Now that’s peace! Don’t you agree?” ---
**Author:** ![lel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8797f3/32.png) [@lel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lel)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2002, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-my-friend-a-fundie/130838/24 "2002-10-05T20:10:37Z")
> [@](#): > > That’s an easy one. Bill Clinton is the most well known one that comes to mind, but if you’re in a Southern state you may wish to check the political affiliation of some of your local liberal politicians too. Do you yourself consider Bill Clinton a “real” Southern Baptist? And my apologies, but I’m nowhere near the Southern states. Frankly, I’m not overly familiar with Southern politics. Are there actually openly leftist devout Southern Baptists in the South? I’ve been a member of Southern Baptist churches in the Midwest and the West and have yet to find any really leftist Southern Baptists. I’ve found a few rare ones that are fairly moderate, but I don’t know of any Southern Baptists who are actually leftist. > [@](#): > > Only leftist compared to the Southern Baptist Convention, and I’m not even completely sure about that. It seems most of the churches that joined the CBF were motivated as much by the way the Convention appeared to be trying to impose its will too much on individual churches. However, in many cases those were issues such as the ordination of women. So you could say they are further to the left than the Southern Baptist Convention. Well, didn’t expect to say that that’s been my experience too, but it has been. Then again, you could make a rational argument that Bush is to the left of the SBC in terms of social conservatism, and he’s not a leftist. And **vanilla** , I hope you don’t have a gaggle of church members at your door soon trying to convert you from your pro-choice stance! Frankly, I’m still in awe at how you can keep religion and politics separate. I’m always worried that I’m not religiously conservative enough and that I’m so politically liberal that God’s not too happy with me! ---
**Author:** ![Blackeyes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f6c823/32.png) [@Blackeyes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackeyes)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2002, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-my-friend-a-fundie/130838/25 "2002-10-05T20:20:49Z")
> [@](#): > > P.S. Learn to spell atheist. ☹ Typo. > [@](#): > > Feh, I’m a conservative atheist. Though I like to think of myself as a libertarian. Hm. You’re right about Libertarians being conservative, I guess. But what I really meant by conservative was the BlowUpAbortionClinics/HomosexualsAreBad, etc. types, like the woman described in the OP. It’s my fault for not elaborating. :wally ---
**Author:** ![Blackeyes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f6c823/32.png) [@Blackeyes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackeyes)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2002, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-my-friend-a-fundie/130838/26 "2002-10-05T20:22:16Z")
> [@](#): > > :wally :smack: That should have been “:smack:”. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![SteveEisenberg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@SteveEisenberg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveEisenberg)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2002, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-my-friend-a-fundie/130838/27 "2002-10-05T20:40:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vanilla \* > **I think with the homsoexuality issue, I am fighting a lost cause** Probably I’m missing something here, but I do not see a need for a cause. Although some of vanilla’s friend’s views may seem less tolerant than those of vanilla, the fact that the friend is being friends with vanilla shows a base level of acceptance. If they are friends for years, perhaps they will influence each other in ways that cannot be anticipated. If that doesn’t work out, they may come to understand each other somewhat, but cannot be expected to influence one another. What I am perhaps missing is that both vanilla and her friend want to influence each other, and will be not well satisfied with just understanding each other. If so, we can’t really help them with that. Up to a point, disagreement can be a way of showing you care about what the other is saying. Just keeping to friends you agree with can border on superficiality. This is my first post on Straight Dope, and I am impressed with the high level of most comments. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2002, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-my-friend-a-fundie/130838/28 "2002-10-06T00:42:13Z")
My best friend in high school was an extreme right-wing conservative, _and_ an outspoken atheist. He was a scientific type who insisted there was no empirical evidence for God, played Avalon Hill games, and was a staunch anti-Communist. We had a lot of lively debates, me being a religious liberal and all, you can imagine. I was into science too, but scientific knowledge in no way supported atheism as far as I was concerned. I saw science as entirely neutral on the question. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Wrong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@Mr.Wrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Wrong)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2002, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-my-friend-a-fundie/130838/29 "2002-10-06T01:50:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Are there actually openly leftist devout Southern Baptists in the South? There are, almost all of them black. Actually, they may not be so much Leftist as “traditionally” Democrats. Socially conservative, but fiscally liberal. Kind of Anti-Libertarian.:eek: ---
**Author:** ![happyheathen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5e925/32.png) [@happyheathen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happyheathen)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2002, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-my-friend-a-fundie/130838/30 "2002-10-06T02:22:58Z")
ummm… **M.E.** - _This_ atheist don’t **“witness”**. [sub]Yeeesh![/sub] ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2002, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-my-friend-a-fundie/130838/31 "2002-10-06T02:30:55Z")
[continuing the sidetrack] It has been mentioned before in the thread, but seems to be getting missed: it is one thing to be a Baptist who happens to be Southern, or even belong to a traditional Southern, Baptist, congregation, and another to be a member of the Southern Baptist Convention (that only relatively recently has turned ideological). **Mr. Wrong** , I think a majority of Black Baptist Churches, even down South, are _not_ SBC affiliates. [/continuing the sidetrack] ---
**Author:** ![Urban\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Urban\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urban_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2002, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-my-friend-a-fundie/130838/32 "2002-10-06T08:12:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jomo Mojo \* > I was into science too, but scientific knowledge in no way supported atheism as far as I was concerned. Sure. As I said before, there’s not sufficient evidence for Judeo-Christianity. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jomo Mojo \* > I saw science as entirely neutral on the question. On the surface, perhaps. Deeper down, however, science needs to presuppose naturalism. ---
**Author:** ![Kirkland1244](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kirkland1244](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kirkland1244)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2002, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-my-friend-a-fundie/130838/33 "2002-10-06T16:30:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blackeyes \* > \*\*Has anyone ever noticed conservative athiests tend to _not exist_? 😕 \*\* I dated one when I was in Kansas. They do exist. They’re just very rare. Like jackalopes. 🙂 Kirk ---
**Author:** ![DKW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dkw/32/3118_2.png) [@DKW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DKW)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-my-friend-a-fundie/130838/34 "2002-10-07T08:15:43Z")
"Look, lady, not only have I been force-fed carefully selected bible passages taken grossly out of context for much of my childhood…you know, 'cause the teachers were more interested in pounding an agenda into my skull than actually inspiring me to learn about the Bible…some of the biggest wastes of flesh in my life, including my high school principal, were also some of the most devout people I’ve ever met. If that doesn’t make an often-struggling student really, really angry at God, nothing does. “And no homosexual ever vandalized my notebook.” About as much of a chance as anything else has to convince a fundie. ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-my-friend-a-fundie/130838/35 "2002-10-07T09:44:08Z")
Let her think what the fuck she wants. It’s only a problem if she starts being offensive to homosexual or atheists. Frankly, people who think those things are probably well-brainwashed, and a few Bible texts aren’t going to enlighten them. ---
**Author:** ![reprise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@reprise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reprise)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-my-friend-a-fundie/130838/36 "2002-10-07T10:06:04Z")
If this woman isn’t already interested in debating your different viewpoints about the scriptures and deity in which you both believe, then be very careful about becoming every bit as evangelical about converting her to your beliefs as she will no doubt be about attempting to persuade you of the absolute supremacy of her own. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-my-friend-a-fundie/130838/37 "2002-10-07T10:27:58Z")
The ‘Judge not’ argument is quite likely to be ignored by fundies, who can often quite easily rationalise their condemnation of [whatever] as ‘simply applying scripture’ or ‘speaking the truth of God’. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Lao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dr.Lao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Lao)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-my-friend-a-fundie/130838/38 "2002-10-07T10:45:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mangetout \* > \*\*The ‘Judge not’ argument is quite likely to be ignored by fundies, who can often quite easily rationalise their condemnation of [whatever] as ‘simply applying scripture’ or ‘speaking the truth of God’. \*\* Actually, I often hear them say that it is OK to judge as long as they are able to accept judgement from Scripture. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-my-friend-a-fundie/130838/39 "2002-10-07T11:52:18Z")
Blackeyes wrote: > [@](#): > > You’re right about Libertarians being conservative, I guess. Yikes! Although greatly oversimplified (or rather, overcomplicated), some people think of us as liberal on social issues and conservative on fiscal issues. As for the OP, I like CJHoworth’s Jonah idea. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-my-friend-a-fundie/130838/40 "2002-10-07T14:56:09Z")
Actually, they say that God is the one judging, and from His word, He judges-and we can repeat it, I guess… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-my-friend-a-fundie/130838.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-my-friend-a-fundie/130838.md?page=3)