# Help needed! I'm going to Lion Country **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 29, 2010, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-needed-im-going-to-lion-country/541230 "2010-05-29T21:44:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-needed-im-going-to-lion-country/541230/41 "2010-06-10T03:25:39Z")
> [@boilercake](#): > > Actually [no](http://www.nationmaster.com/country/sf-south-africa/cri-crime), it is not. Please take off your PC hat when moderating. Nothing in that link justifies a silly statement like this: [QUOTE=boilercake] FWIW traveling to RSA for World Cup is akin to hiking the Iraq/Iran border, crossing from China to NK for a “story,” etc. You have been warned! [/QUOTE] Of course, citizens of many countries could cite homicide rates to show that it is incredibly stupid and dangerous to visit the US, which has over 8 times the homicide rate of Japan. ---
**Author:** ![boilercake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@boilercake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boilercake)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-needed-im-going-to-lion-country/541230/42 "2010-06-10T03:40:56Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Nothing in that link justifies a silly statement like this: > > Of course, citizens of many countries could cite homicide rates to show that it is incredibly stupid and dangerous to visit the US, which has over 8 times the homicide rate of Japan. Strawman PC Mod. We’re not talking about traveling to the US or Japan, but the RSA, please per your post cite your “homicide rates” showing traveling to the RSA is safer than to the US or Japan. Otherwise don’t tread on me. IOW SHOW ME RSA IS NOT AMONG THE MOST DANGEROUS COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD. You’ve just called me “silly,” surely as a Mod you have to do better than that. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-needed-im-going-to-lion-country/541230/43 "2010-06-10T04:43:16Z")
> [@boilercake](#): > > Strawman PC Mod. > > We’re not talking about traveling to the US or Japan, but the RSA, please per your post cite your “homicide rates” showing traveling to the RSA is safer than to the US or Japan. Otherwise don’t tread on me. > > IOW SHOW ME RSA IS NOT AMONG THE MOST DANGEROUS COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD. You’ve just called me “silly,” surely as a Mod you have to do better than that. I called your statement silly, not you. Which it was. And also extremely naive. (I would also point out that attacking me for being “PC” doesn’t exactly support your your argument in any way.) Yes, South Africa has relatively high crime rates overall. That does not make it “stupid” to visit there, which is your contention. As in any other country, some areas are more dangerous than others. By staying away from the high-crime areas, and taking reasonable precautions, a visitor is not likely to have any problems. Besides South Africa, I have traveled in Colombia, Venezuela, and Mexico, all of which have substantially higher homicide rates than the US. I’ve never had any problems in any of them. May I ask what is your experience traveling in such countries? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-needed-im-going-to-lion-country/541230/44 "2010-06-10T05:34:29Z")
> [@boilercake](#): > > IOW SHOW ME RSA IS NOT AMONG THE MOST DANGEROUS COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD. But you didn’t merely say that RSA is “among the most dangerous countries in the world”. You claimed that the OP’s proposed trip there was as dangerous as “hiking the Iraq/Iran border, crossing from China to NK”, which is ridiculous. Yes, RSA has one of the highest homicide rates in the world, but that doesn’t mean that the risk to the average affluent tourist is much higher than in other parts of the developed world. Similarly, the US has a higher homicide rate than Iran, Bangladesh or freakin’ Niger, but that doesn’t mean that visiting the US is unsafe overall. The US State Department doesn’t even have a current [travel warning](http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_1764.html) for South Africa, although it does for Mexico, Nepal and Israel, for example. Do you think the State Department is just being “PC”? ---
**Author:** ![Random\_Design](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58f4c7/32.png) [@Random\_Design](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random_Design)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-needed-im-going-to-lion-country/541230/45 "2010-06-10T11:47:04Z")
> [@QuanSu](#): > > That was the impression I got from the hotel managers although none of them would actually come out and say so (totally understandable). > > I ran across the company you mentioned while researching on the Net, but did not think much of it. Since you recommended it, I will check it out. Thanks!!! > > I will be at [Le Chateau Guest House](http://www.lechateau.co.za/) at 62 Abel Street, Terenure, Kempton Park. It looks nice, the managers are warm and generous (at least in E-mail) but their descriptions about their “facility security” are really interesting to say the least. Oh… you’re staying in the east. Well the good news is you’re not far from the airport, the bad news is I don’t think there are any buses running in that area (the bus route serving the Gautrain station there is very limited :(). However a taxi to that station (Rhodesfield) should be quite affordable, and from there you can catch our spiffy new train to Sandton - that’s about $3 each way- from Sandton you have more public transport options. Actually if you have a family it will likely be easier and cheaper to just taxi it door to door. ---
**Author:** ![QuanSu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/c37758/32.png) [@QuanSu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuanSu)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-needed-im-going-to-lion-country/541230/46 "2010-06-10T18:33:46Z")
> [@](#): > > you’re staying in the east. Well the good news is you’re not far from the airport. I thought it would be north east from the airport. 😛 Well, I thought I’d better stay close to the airport since we have to fly back and forth between JHB and Port Elizabeth twice. Less chance of a missed flight due to traffic. > [@](#): > > Actually if you have a family it will likely be easier and cheaper to just taxi it door to door. It will be just me and my girlfriend. So, if we use public transportation, best choice is from Rhodesfield station? (A car seems to be more and more convenient to me now…BTW, how is the traffic there?) There is a restaurant (can’t think of its name now at work) in a shopping mall that I’d like to visit; I believe it’s somewhere between Sandton and Midrand (closer to Midrand I think). Is there any areas you think we should skip for safety reason? Besides Gold Reef City and the Cradle of Mankind park, any other interesting places would you recommend? And thanks a bunch for your advices! > [@](#): > > Incidentally, Google Street View for South Africa went live today. Particularly nice is that they’ve used the Google Trike to ride around some of the touristy pedestrian areas. You can see, for example the Houses of Parliament and the Kirstenbosch Gardens. I still cannot get to the Kirstenbosch Gardens link for some reasons. It just shows a simple map for me. ---
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-needed-im-going-to-lion-country/541230/47 "2010-06-10T18:43:02Z")
> [@QuanSu](#): > > I still cannot get to the Kirstenbosch Gardens link for some reasons. It just shows a simple map for me. Weird. 😕 Try this shortened link: [http://bit.ly/bKgXsq](http://bit.ly/bKgXsq). Does that work? ---
**Author:** ![QuanSu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/c37758/32.png) [@QuanSu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuanSu)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-needed-im-going-to-lion-country/541230/48 "2010-06-10T22:31:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Try this shortened link: [http://bit.ly/bKgXsq](http://bit.ly/bKgXsq). Does that work? No…Still the same simple map: no image, no direction etc…nothing like the other link. Really strange. ---
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-needed-im-going-to-lion-country/541230/49 "2010-06-10T23:39:01Z")
> [@QuanSu](#): > > No…Still the same simple map: no image, no direction etc…nothing like the other link. Really strange. Very odd - I’ve just checked again and it definitely works for me. What about [this](http://maps.google.co.za/?ie=UTF8&t=h&layer=c&cbll=-33.988678,18.432925&panoid=NAsKS6bQvWeZlDExVXf44w&cbp=12,329.19,,0,-3.76&ll=-33.98858,18.432891&spn=0,0.033023&z=16) one? ---
**Author:** ![boilercake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@boilercake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boilercake)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-needed-im-going-to-lion-country/541230/50 "2010-06-11T00:49:35Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I called your statement silly, not you. Which it was. And also extremely naive. The freakin’ [State Department](http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/pa/pa_3250.html)is issuing warnings, open your eyes MOD. ---
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-needed-im-going-to-lion-country/541230/51 "2010-06-11T01:30:53Z")
> [@boilercake](#): > > The freakin’ [State Department](http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/pa/pa_3250.html)is issuing warnings, open your eyes MOD. Have you actually _read_ the Travel Alert? [QUOTE=State Department] The vast majority of visitors complete their travels in South Africa without problems; however, visitors should be aware that criminal activity, including violent crime, is prevalent throughout the country. [/QUOTE] Anyway, there is a difference between a Travel Alert, which is issued for all sorts of short-term situations, and a Travel Warning, which is what State issues for long-term danger. [http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis\_pa\_tw/pa/pa\_1766.html](http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/pa/pa_1766.html): > [@](#): > > Travel Alerts are issued to disseminate information about short-term conditions, generally within a particular country, that pose imminent risks to the security of U.S. citizens. Natural disasters, terrorist attacks, coups, anniversaries of terrorist events, election-related demonstrations or violence, and **high-profile events such as international conferences or regional sports events are examples of conditions that might generate a Travel Alert.** (bolding mine). I’d call the World Cup a fairly high-profile event, no? [http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis\_pa\_tw/tw/tw\_1764.html](http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_1764.html): > [@](#): > > Travel Warnings are issued to describe long-term, protracted conditions that make a country dangerous or unstable. A Travel Warning is also issued when the U.S. Government’s ability to assist American citizens is constrained due to the closure of an embassy or consulate or because of a drawdown of its staff. There is no Travel Warning in effect for South Africa, unlike (since you made the comparison) Iran or Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![QuanSu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/c37758/32.png) [@QuanSu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuanSu)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-needed-im-going-to-lion-country/541230/52 "2010-06-11T01:36:40Z")
> [@](#): > > Very odd - I’ve just checked again and it definitely works for me. What about this one? Newbie error on my part :smack:, I’m using Firefox, and didn’t clear out cache. After I purge the cache and force FF to reload, the link works like a charm. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-needed-im-going-to-lion-country/541230/53 "2010-06-11T03:15:23Z")
> [@boilercake](#): > > The freakin’ [State Department](http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/pa/pa_3250.html)is issuing warnings, open your eyes MOD. As **ctnguy** has pointed out, that is NOT a Travel Warning, but a Travel Alert. That demonstrates pretty conclusively that the State Department does _not_ regard South Africa as “one of the most dangerous countries in the world,” since it has not issued a Travel Warning for South Africa. These countries would all be regarded as more dangerous than South Africa by the State Department, since they have current Travel Warnings: Afghanistan 05/25/2010 Nigeria 05/24/2010 Burundi 05/19/2010 Cote d’Ivoire 05/12/2010 Niger 05/11/2010 Mexico 05/06/2010 Georgia 05/03/2010 Congo, Democratic Republic of the 04/21/2010 Philippines 04/02/2010 Algeria 04/02/2010 Lebanon 03/29/2010 Iran 03/23/2010 Kenya 03/16/2010 Haiti 03/15/2010 Colombia 03/05/2010 Eritrea 03/02/2010 Central African Republic 02/26/2010 Yemen 02/25/2010 Iraq 02/25/2010 Saudi Arabia 02/18/2010 Pakistan 01/07/2010 Sudan 12/31/2009 Somalia 12/31/2009 Mauritania 12/02/2009 Chad 11/23/2009 Mali 11/19/2009 Nepal 11/19/2009 Guinea 10/17/2009 Israel, the West Bank and Gaza 08/14/2009 Uzbekistan 06/16/2009 Just wondering, would you regard visiting Cancun in Mexico equivalent to crossing the North Korean border? Because by your criteria it seems it would be. ---
**Author:** ![Random\_Design](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58f4c7/32.png) [@Random\_Design](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random_Design)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-needed-im-going-to-lion-country/541230/54 "2010-06-11T08:13:48Z")
> [@QuanSu](#): > > Well, I thought I’d better stay close to the airport since we have to fly back and forth between JHB and Port Elizabeth twice. Less chance of a missed flight due to traffic. Wise move. > [@](#): > > So, if we use public transportation, best choice is from Rhodesfield station? Yup. Note that going from Rhodesfield to Sandton will cost about $3 each, going from the _airport_ (which is only a few minutes from Rhodesfield on the train) will cost ~$13. The pricing is structured to hit airport commuters hardest. > [@](#): > > (A car seems to be more and more convenient to me now…BTW, how is the traffic there?) Traffic on the highways can be quite horrendous. There has been a lot of work done on improving highways only recently completed, so between that and the influx of traffic bound to result from WC travellers it’s hard to predict how bad it will be in the next month. > [@](#): > > I believe it’s somewhere between Sandton and Midrand (closer to Midrand I think). There are a lot of restaurants in that area 😉 if you can remember the mall name that would help. > [@](#): > > Is there any areas you think we should skip for safety reason? Besides Gold Reef City and the Cradle of Mankind park, any other interesting places would you recommend? Pretoria (Tshwane) has some historic government buildings and monuments if that’s your thing. Joburg doesn’t have much in the way of sightseeing interest unless you like mall-browsing (in which case you’re very much in luck!). As for areas to skip… I don’t know, there are some areas some people rate as quite fearful but unfortunately crime can happen anywhere. Generally the Jhb CBD and its surrounds are to be avoided if possible. Pack a lot of common sense and apply liberally. Don’t expose cash or expensive gadgets (and don’t leave them lying around in hotels), keep your car windows rolled up unless you’re required to have them down for something, don’t leave valuables in the car, stay around people. ---
**Author:** ![QuanSu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/c37758/32.png) [@QuanSu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuanSu)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-needed-im-going-to-lion-country/541230/55 "2010-06-11T21:07:27Z")
> [@](#): > > Traffic on the highways can be quite horrendous. There has been a lot of work done on improving highways only recently completed, so between that and the influx of traffic bound to result from WC travellers it’s hard to predict how bad it will be in the next month. I just finished watching the opening ceremony on ESPN3 site: seems that there weren’t too many people there, and the parking lot was only half filled, if that. Streets and lots looked newly constructed, and not much traffic on the highway nearby (from the helicopter shots). I hope this pattern holds. > [@](#): > > Joburg doesn’t have much in the way of sightseeing interest unless you like mall-browsing (in which case you’re very much in luck!). I would really appreciate it if you could lower your voice lets my girlfriend hear this. 😃 I can carry only so much. Incidentally, my Kaiser Travel adviser just told my over the phone that there is a “measles epidemic” over there, and that I might need vaccination before going. I find this hard to believe but is there any truth to her statement? I’m pretty sure I’m vaccinated against it, but it was so long ago I don’t remember exactly (probably have to call my Mom and ask). ---
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-needed-im-going-to-lion-country/541230/56 "2010-06-11T22:00:19Z")
> [@QuanSu](#): > > I just finished watching the opening ceremony on ESPN3 site: seems that there weren’t too many people there, and the parking lot was only half filled, if that. Streets and lots looked newly constructed, and not much traffic on the highway nearby (from the helicopter shots). I hope this pattern holds. That’s probably because, except for FIFA bigwigs and so on, private cars aren’t allowed anywhere near to the stadium on match days; you have to use one of the Park & Ride services or other public transport. [Here](http://www.joburg.org.za/content/view/5308/168/1/2/), for example, is the City of Jo’burg’s advice about getting to Soccer City. [QUOTE=QuanSu] Incidentally, my Kaiser Travel adviser just told my over the phone that there is a “measles epidemic” over there, and that I might need vaccination before going. I find this hard to believe but is there any truth to her statement? I’m pretty sure I’m vaccinated against it, but it was so long ago I don’t remember exactly (probably have to call my Mom and ask). [/QUOTE] [Per the (South African) National Institute for Communicable Diseases](http://www.nicd.ac.za/fifa2010/2010_FIFA_WC_Travel_Advisory_20100519.pdf): (link is a PDF) > [@](#): > > A measles outbreak that started in early 2009 in Gauteng Province has spread to all provinces. A mass measles vaccination campaign is currently under way and this will likely reduce the number of new cases. However, measles vaccination should be strongly considered for those visitors to South Africa who may not be immune through prior immunization or disease. Anecdotally, the measles outbreak has not been mentioned in the local media since late April, so the mass immunization campaign may be having some success. ---
**Author:** ![QuanSu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/c37758/32.png) [@QuanSu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuanSu)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-needed-im-going-to-lion-country/541230/57 "2010-06-11T22:38:59Z")
> [@](#): > > you have to use one of the Park & Ride services or other public transport. Thanks! I’m waaay more behind in the preparation curve than I thought… > [@](#): > > Anecdotally, the measles outbreak has not been mentioned in the local media since late April, so the mass immunization campaign may be having some success. I’m sure it’s taken care of by now. (Man, it’s amazing to have your confirmation 15 minutes after getting the information here… :)) ---
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2010, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-needed-im-going-to-lion-country/541230/58 "2010-06-12T00:36:04Z")
> [@QuanSu](#): > > Thanks! I’m waaay more behind in the preparation curve than I thought… Here are some websites that may be useful for transport info: [ul] [li][Cape Town - Transport](http://www.capetown.gov.za/en/FIFA2010/Pages/Gettingaround.aspx)[/li][li][Johannesburg - Getting to the game](http://www.joburg.org.za/content/view/5135/168/)[/li][li][Find your way - Port Elizabeth](http://www.findyourway.co.za/FindYourWay2010/City/ShowByCityName?cityname=Nelson%20Mandela%20Bay%20/%20Port%20Elizabeth)[/li][/ul] Now, some advice for Cape Town. Assuming you’re travelling to the stadium from Caxton Manor, there are basically two options. The first is to drive to the Park-and-Ride site at the University of Cape Town ([route](http://maps.google.co.za/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=27+Caxton+Way,+Southern+Suburbs+7806&daddr=Upper+Rd&hl=en&geocode=Ffqq-P0djK4ZASljYeVfRkLMHTHiZSb5IE9ArQ%3BFU7Q-f0dsrIZAQ&mra=ls&sll=-33.980948,18.463039&sspn=0.070034,0.154324&ie=UTF8&ll=-34.028193,18.472996&spn=0.069995,0.154324&t=h&z=13)), and then take the free shuttle bus from there to the Civic Centre bus station in the city centre. From there, depending on your mood and the weather, you can either walk along the “Fan Walk” to the stadium, or catch a shuttle bus. The second option is to take a train from Diep River station ([here](http://maps.google.co.za/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Diep+River+Railway+Station&sll=-33.956525,18.473253&sspn=0.008757,0.01929&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Diep+River+Railway+Station,+Plumstead,+Cape+Town,+Western+Cape&ll=-34.035448,18.462889&spn=0.008749,0.027466&t=h&z=16&lci=transit)), which is about 750 metres (say half a mile) from Caxton Manor, from which trains run to Cape Town station in the city centre; trains will be free on match days to ticket holders. The scheduled time for the journey is 35 minutes. Generally speaking, trains to the city stop at Platform 1, i.e. on the west side of the tracks. (Timetables are [here](http://www.capemetrorail.co.za/_timetables/December%202009/Train_Timetables_May_2010_WC_Service.htm); Diep River is on the “Cape Town-Wynberg-Simon’s Town” line.) From Cape Town station, you can either walk to the stadium, or the short distance to the Civic Centre bus station and take a shuttle. For returning after the match you’d want to catch a train with destination “Fish Hoek” or “Simon’s Town”; the electronic noticeboards will show the platform number. Personally, I’d choose the train, because it avoids the hassle of driving to, and finding parking at, UCT. Also I can imagine that after the match it will take a while to get off the university campus, since there are only two exit roads. The advice that the city authorities have been giving is that you should start travelling at least three hours before kick-off: one hour to travel to the city centre, another hour to get to the stadium, and a third hour to get through security and find your seats, etc. ---
**Author:** ![boilercake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@boilercake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boilercake)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2010, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-needed-im-going-to-lion-country/541230/59 "2010-06-12T01:00:38Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Just wondering, would you regard visiting Cancun in Mexico equivalent to crossing the North Korean border? Because by your criteria it seems it would be. Now you are going to argue traveling to Mexico is safe? ---
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2010, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-needed-im-going-to-lion-country/541230/60 "2010-06-12T01:19:30Z")
> [@boilercake](#): > > Now you are going to argue traveling to Mexico is safe? Define “safe”? There is a difference between “not perfectly safe” and “as dangerous as hiking the Iran/Iraq border or crossing from China to North Korea”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-needed-im-going-to-lion-country/541230.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-needed-im-going-to-lion-country/541230.md?page=4)