# Help pick apart email (Social Security and Congressional plan) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 16, 2009, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-pick-apart-email-social-security-and-congressional-plan/499958 "2009-06-16T16:48:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-pick-apart-email-social-security-and-congressional-plan/499958/1 "2009-06-16T16:48:14Z")
Got this email today and thought someone here might have the information to pick it apart at their finger tips. I did a quick search on Snopes, but either I didn’t type in the right stuff or they don’t have an article on it. Being naturally lazy (and knowing how a lot of 'dopers LOVE to pick these things apart), I thought I’d ask first, before trying to dig through miles of google links to find the information. Here is the email: > [@](#): > > LET US SHOW OUR LEADERS IN WASHINGTON “PEOPLE POWER” AND THE POWER OF THE INTERNET. LET ME KNOW IF YOU ARE WITH ME ON THIS BY FORWARDING TO EVERYONE IN YOUR ADDRESS BOOK. > > IT DOESN’T MATTER IF YOU ARE REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT! > > KEEP IT GOING!!! > Propose this in 2009: > > START A BILL TO PLACE ALL POLITICIANS ON SOCIAL SECURITY > > * * * > > SOCIAL SECURITY: > > (This is worth reading. It is short and to the point.) > > Perhaps we are asking the wrong questions during election years. > > Our Senators and Congresswomen do not pay into Social Security and, of course, they do not collect from it. > > You see, Social Security benefits were not suitable for persons of their rare elevation in society. They felt they should have a special plan for themselves. So, many years ago they voted in their own benefit plan. > > In more recent years, no congressperson has felt the need to change it. After all, it is a great plan. > > For all practical purposes their plan works like this: > > When they retire, they continue to draw the same pay until they die. > Except it may increase from time to time for cost o f living adjustments.. > > For example, Senator Byrd and Congressman White and their wives may expect to draw $7, 800,000.00 (that’s Seven Million, Eight-Hundred Thousand Dollars), with their wives drawing $275, 000.00 during the last years of their 0A lives. > > This is calculated on an average life span for each of those two Dignitaries. > Younger Dignitaries who retire at an early age, will receive much more during the rest of their lives. > > Their cost for this excellent plan is $0.00. NADA..! ZILCH… > > This little perk they voted for themselves is free to them. You and I pick up the tab for this plan. The funds for this fine retirement plan come directly from the General Funds; > > "OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK "! > > \>From our own Social Security Plan, which you and I pay (or have paid) into, every payday until we retire (which amount is matched by 20 our employer). We can expect to get an average of > > $1,000 per month > > After retirement. > > Or, in other words, we would have to collect our average of $1,000 monthly benefits for 68 years and one (1) month to equal Senator Bill Bradley’s benefits! > > Social Security could be very good if only one small change were made. > > That change would be to: > Jerk the Golden Fleece Retirement Plan from under the Senators and Congressmen.. Put them into the Social Security plan with the rest of us > Then sit back… > And see how fast they would fix it. > > If enough people receive this, maybe a seed of awareness will be planted and maybe good changes will evolve. > How many people CAN you send this to? > Better yet… > How many people WILL you send this to ? -XT ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-pick-apart-email-social-security-and-congressional-plan/499958/2 "2009-06-16T17:15:47Z")
[Snopes](http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/pensions.asp) Basic gist, Congresscritters do pay into and collect from SS like everyone else, and their pensions don’t pay out the ending salary, They do get fairly decent pensions, but it’s a pretty high profile job with good pay, so that’s not really surprising. Also Senator Byrd is 91 and still serving in the Senate. If you calculated how much money he’d collect if he retired today using the average American male lifespan, I suspect you’d get a negative number. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-pick-apart-email-social-security-and-congressional-plan/499958/3 "2009-06-16T17:18:53Z")
Thanks! I just got my aunt’s email, and she immediately sent me this thing. I haven’t had a chance to check it out, but I’ll look at the snopes link. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-pick-apart-email-social-security-and-congressional-plan/499958/4 "2009-06-16T17:19:51Z")
:smack: I checked Snopes…damn, totally missed that. Thanks! And thanks for the quick and dirty summation as well. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-pick-apart-email-social-security-and-congressional-plan/499958/5 "2009-06-16T17:21:21Z")
I suspect that the factual assertions in the email are (on the whole) true. I do know that (apart from members of Congress) there are a lot of Federal Government employees who are not in Social Security because they have their own retirement plan. What political conclusions you draw from these facts is another matter. ETA: My views on the factuality have changed after reading the responses that came while I was writing. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-pick-apart-email-social-security-and-congressional-plan/499958/6 "2009-06-16T17:55:49Z")
Of course, the whole premise of the article is stupid from the very beginning. It was never the intent of Social Security to pay 100% for an idyllic retirement lifestyle. It’s meant as a safety net for the poor and a supplement for the middle class. And if benefits were increased, the cost to current workers and employers would increase. You could just argue that they should save that difference themselves rather than let the government control it. So the proper response to the e-mail (even if it was factually accurate) is “Quit whining and start saving!” ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-pick-apart-email-social-security-and-congressional-plan/499958/7 "2009-06-16T19:09:52Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > I suspect that the factual assertions in the email are (on the whole) true. I do know that (apart from members of Congress) there are a lot of Federal Government employees who are not in Social Security because they have their own retirement plan. What political conclusions you draw from these facts is another matter. > > ETA: My views on the factuality have changed after reading the responses that came while I was writing. It is correct that many Federal employees are not in Social Security. The Civil Service Retirement system, set up originally in 1920, was exempted from Social Security benefits. Barb retired under this plan, and had insufficient quarters of SS-covered work to be eligible for SS benefits. It was replaced by the Federal Employees Retirement system in 1987, though employees like her who had already built up CSRS coverage were permitted to continue in CSRS (though they could voluntarily transfer to FERS if they so chose). ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-pick-apart-email-social-security-and-congressional-plan/499958/8 "2009-06-16T21:11:37Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > It is correct that many Federal employees are not in Social Security. The Civil Service Retirement system, set up originally in 1920, was exempted from Social Security benefits. Barb retired under this plan, and had insufficient quarters of SS-covered work to be eligible for SS benefits. It was replaced by the Federal Employees Retirement system in 1987, though employees like her who had already built up CSRS coverage were permitted to continue in CSRS (though they could voluntarily transfer to FERS if they so chose). This is correct. So all government employees who began their employment in 1987 or later are now under Social Security. In addition, many (if not most) older employees switched over. Those employees who had less than 10 years of service as of 1987 could switch over and get a reimbursement of all prior payments into CSRS. The main difference, other than SS benefits, is the pension plans. Those under the older plan would get a pension at a certain percentage of their highest 3 years salaries, which percentage increased with the term of service (no SS benefits). Although under the new plan, the percentage is very small and does not increase (I don’t recall all the details), but those employees could contribute to a Thrift Savings Plan, up to 10% of their salary, and the government would match up to 6%. Those proceeds could be distributed among stock, bonds, or short term notes as the employee chooses. As long as the stock market was rising, those who put their money in stock did very well, but that’s not the case now. In addition, those employees get SS benefits. There are more details, such as having their SS benefits reduced if they were previously covered by SS due to private employment, unless they had 25 years of private employment. I believe that is correct, but it’s been almost 7 years since I retired. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-pick-apart-email-social-security-and-congressional-plan/499958/9 "2009-06-16T23:37:44Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > It is correct that many Federal employees are not in Social Security. The Civil Service Retirement system, set up originally in 1920, was exempted from Social Security benefits. Barb retired under this plan, and had insufficient quarters of SS-covered work to be eligible for SS benefits. It was replaced by the Federal Employees Retirement system in 1987, though employees like her who had already built up CSRS coverage were permitted to continue in CSRS (though they could voluntarily transfer to FERS if they so chose). Also some other kinds of state and local government employees are not in Social Security. For example, some California public school teachers are covered by a separate retirement program. However, it certainly does not not seem to be better managed than Social Security. ---
**Author:** ![Alex\_Dubinsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dbc845/32.png) [@Alex\_Dubinsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alex_Dubinsky)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-pick-apart-email-social-security-and-congressional-plan/499958/10 "2009-06-16T23:45:21Z")
The obvious error in the email is that paying out more benefits wouldn’t “fix” social security. Social security isn’t “broken” because it doesn’t give retirees enough money, it’s broken because it won’t have enough funds in its coffers to pay even that. Lol. Clearly, another example of spam sent around by old people. (Why do they love chain letters so much?) ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-pick-apart-email-social-security-and-congressional-plan/499958/11 "2009-06-17T20:17:26Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > Also some other kinds of state and local government employees are not in Social Security. For example, some California public school teachers are covered by a separate retirement program. However, it certainly does not not seem to be better managed than Social Security. That doesn’t necessarily preclude coverage by SS. Federal employees have a separate retirement program too, but if they are under FERS, they are also under SS. Many have said that individuals should get the same retirement benefits as congressmen and representatives (and other federal employees) because, if under FERS, they put a percentage of their wages in a “thrift savings plan” and the goverment matches up to 6%, in addition to SS. This is a really good retirement plan. Many companies have similar plans, and my first job at CT&T Co had something very similar. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-pick-apart-email-social-security-and-congressional-plan/499958/12 "2009-06-17T21:42:56Z")
> [@barbitu8](#): > > That doesn’t necessarily preclude coverage by SS. Federal employees have a separate retirement program too, but if they are under FERS, they are also under SS. Perhaps. My wife and brother-in-law are both public school teachers; neither of them pay Social Security. Instead they pay an equivalent amount towards their teachers retirement fund. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-pick-apart-email-social-security-and-congressional-plan/499958/13 "2009-06-17T22:09:27Z")
A few years ago, no state employee could be covered by SS(as was no federal employee). However, that was changed and each state can choose for itself whether its employees will be covered.