# Help the atheist teach his daughter about religion **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 2, 2010, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-atheist-teach-his-daughter-about-religion/552361 "2010-09-02T08:00:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-atheist-teach-his-daughter-about-religion/552361/81 "2010-09-08T18:06:47Z")
And at any rate, didn’t Jesus say he wouldn’t change any Jewish law? If I worshipped him, I’d take his word over anyone else’s. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-atheist-teach-his-daughter-about-religion/552361/82 "2010-09-08T20:22:03Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > > [@Voyager](#): > > > > I can point to a specific place in the NT which got rid of dietary laws. Why was this necessary if they no longer applied. > > Don’t let me hold you back, then. (I’m betting it’s something Paul wrote if it’s there). Acts 10, and it was Peter > [@](#): > > 10:9 On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour: > 10:10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance, (10:10-13) > “Rise, Peter: kill and eat.” > Peter has a dream in which God shows him “wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls.” The voice (God’s?) says, “Rise, Peter: kill and eat.” > What should we eat? > What the Bible says about vegetarians > 10:11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: > 10:12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. > 10:13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. > 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. > 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. > 10:16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven. > 10:17 Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-atheist-teach-his-daughter-about-religion/552361/83 "2010-09-08T20:39:08Z")
Liberal Christians base their interpretation of the Law of Moses by what Jesus said about the Law: > [@Matthew 15:10-11](#): > > Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand. What goes into a man’s mouth does not make him ‘unclean,’ but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him ‘unclean.’ " > “Are you still so dull?” Jesus asked them. "Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man ‘unclean.’ For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what make a man ‘unclean’; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him ‘unclean.’ " > [@Mark 12:28-31](#): > > One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?” > “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.” That doesn’t mean, by any stretch of the imagination, that the Ten Commandments are tossed out – they clearly fall within the scope of the Greatest Commandment. However, a good argument can be made that stoning homosexuals does not meet the test of “Love your neighbor as yourself” as Jesus commanded. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-atheist-teach-his-daughter-about-religion/552361/84 "2010-09-08T20:39:27Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > So there is nothing of value in the story of The Good Samaritan - it provides no moral guidance? You can’t look at religions comparatively and get some fairly universal truths (most seem to have some form of golden rule)? Its “throw out baby, bathwater, tub, faucet, and might as well burn down the house?” Life is that binary, that black and white? Where did I say this all should be rejected out of hand? Surely you have a reason to think the Good Samaritan story is useful besides it being in the Bible. We also can edit the Golden rule to say we should do unto others the way they want done to them, not the way we do. If you are a masochist, the other might not want what you want. if we consider this stuff secular advice (the way we would if it came from Socrates) we’d be no worse off. > [@](#): > > There are people who use their religious texts as a rulebook and those that use it as a framework. And using it as a framework in part means recognizing that most religions religious texts were written over a period of time, long ago (Scientology…a little different) and therefore are not universally pertinent to today and need a little editing and interpretation to wrap it into daily life. Look, say I am using Rev. 5 of a program, and all I have is a Rev 1 manual with annotations from those who had used Revs 2 - 4. Is that better than getting an actual Rev 5 manual? The literalist says Rev 1 says it, I believe it, and has all sorts of problems. This example falls down a bit in that Rev. 1 is actually relevant, and it is not clear that any of the Bible accurately reflects what a non-existent God says. > [@](#): > > I understand that the framework provided by religion isn’t useful to everyone and don’t see why it needs to be (I’m not Christian myself, or a member of any other text based dogmatic faith - well UUs can be pretty text based, but Leaves of Grass is one of the texts…along with all sorts of traditional religious texts), but I don’t see why we can acknowledge and be respectful of the idea that it is helpful to some people and teach our children to be respectful of that, even if we don’t teach them belief or encourage them to have Faith. Because unlike Leaves of Grass our society gives the Bible a special place, one it does not disturb. If we all started with the premise that it is just a book, and to be considered on the same plane as Plato or Homer, say, we wouldn’t need to give our kids special skepticism training. Clearly to many, if not most, saying that the Bible is not inspired (let alone perfect) is not respectful. So be it. In any case my research career is built on not being respectful of “known” facts (unless there is reason to be) and I tried to teach my kids the same, and since my older daughter is doing research now also, I think I succeeded. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-atheist-teach-his-daughter-about-religion/552361/85 "2010-09-08T20:41:56Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Liberal Christians base their interpretation of the Law of Moses by what Jesus said about the Law: > > > [@Matthew 15:10-11](#): > > > > Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand. What goes into a man’s mouth does not make him ‘unclean,’ but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him ‘unclean.’ " > > “Are you still so dull?” Jesus asked them. "Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man ‘unclean.’ For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what make a man ‘unclean’; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him ‘unclean.’ " > > That doesn’t mean, by any stretch of the imagination, that the Ten Commandments are tossed out – they clearly fall within the scope of the Greatest Commandment. However, a good argument can be made that stoning homosexuals does not meet the test of “Love your neighbor as yourself” as Jesus commanded. Pity that Dad never told Jesus about bacteria. I wonder how many millions of people died from not washing their hands. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-atheist-teach-his-daughter-about-religion/552361/86 "2010-09-08T21:45:26Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > In any case my research career is built on not being respectful of “known” facts (unless there is reason to be) and I tried to teach my kids the same, and since my older daughter is doing research now also, I think I succeeded. My career is built on being respectful of PEOPLE. I’m not asking anyone to respect the ‘facts,’ just introduce religion in a manner to atheist children that doesn’t discourage disrepect of religious people. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-atheist-teach-his-daughter-about-religion/552361/87 "2010-09-08T21:47:58Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > > [@Ludovic](#): > > > > Don’t let me hold you back, then. (I’m betting it’s something Paul wrote if it’s there). > > Acts 10, and it was Peter > > > [@](#): > > > > 10:9 On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour: > > 10:10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance, (10:10-13) > > “Rise, Peter: kill and eat.” > > Peter has a dream in which God shows him “wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls.” The voice (God’s?) says, “Rise, Peter: kill and eat.” > > What should we eat? > > What the Bible says about vegetarians > > 10:11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: > > 10:12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. > > 10:13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. > > 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. > > 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. > > 10:16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven. > > 10:17 Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, The passage by itself is pretty unconvincing. Looks to me like they’re giving Peter a special dispensation on this particular circumstance, when someone’s in physical danger from hunger, not a blanket reversal of dietary laws. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-atheist-teach-his-daughter-about-religion/552361/88 "2010-09-08T21:54:18Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > > [@Voyager](#): > > > > Acts 10, and it was Peter > > The passage by itself is pretty unconvincing. Looks to me like they’re giving Peter a special dispensation on this particular circumstance, when someone’s in physical danger from hunger, not a blanket reversal of dietary laws. Not only in this passage is it revealed to Peter that dietary restrictions are to be lifted (“What God has made clean, let no one call unclean”), but in the very next passage Peter realizes that the deeper meaning is that no _people_ are to be considered unclean. This is the point that Peter has the epiphany that the Gospel is for the Gentiles as well as the Jews, and he baptizes the Roman centurian and his family. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-atheist-teach-his-daughter-about-religion/552361/89 "2010-09-08T22:05:59Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > > [@Ludovic](#): > > > > The passage by itself is pretty unconvincing. Looks to me like they’re giving Peter a special dispensation on this particular circumstance, when someone’s in physical danger from hunger, not a blanket reversal of dietary laws. > > Not only in this passage is it revealed to Peter that dietary restrictions are to be lifted (“What God has made clean, let no one call unclean”), but in the very next passage Peter realizes that the deeper meaning is that no _people_ are to be considered unclean. This is the point that Peter has the epiphany that the Gospel is for the Gentiles as well as the Jews, and he baptizes the Roman centurian and his family. Who no longer had to worry about dietary laws. I’ve always considered this an excellent example of the marketing skills of the early Christians - if you are getting customer resistance, modify your product definition. I could have quoted more but I didn’t want the Dope getting in trouble with God for copyright violations; and you could look it up. ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-atheist-teach-his-daughter-about-religion/552361/90 "2010-09-08T23:34:19Z")
Dale McGowan is a great authority. He believes in giving kids critical thinking skills and religious literacy. [http://parentingbeyondbelief.com/blog/](http://parentingbeyondbelief.com/blog/) > **[Raising Freethinkers: A Practical Guide for Parenting Beyond Belief: Dale...](https://www.amazon.com/Raising-Freethinkers-Practical-Parenting-Beyond/dp/0814410960)** > > Raising Freethinkers: A Practical Guide for Parenting Beyond Belief \[Dale McGowan, Molleen Matsumura, Amanda Metskas, Jan Devor\] on Amazon.com. \*FREE\* shipping on qualifying offers. Raising Freethinkers: A Practical Guide for Parenting Beyond Belief [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-atheist-teach-his-daughter-about-religion/552361.md?page=4)