Mixing with my husbands evangelical sister and her four kids is just a recipe for crackpottedness ( God planted the dinosaurs-earth is only 6000 years old, the devil lives beneath us and if you are bad he will reach up and grab you and my personal favorite " when you say “om” in yoga, you are calling to the devil.") I won’t even go into the Harry Potter is Devil Worship stuff and Homosexual is a Choice, because your brain will assplode. she has a masters in education. He’s a lawyer.
YEAAAAAH.
What I do is have our kids tell me what the Stepford Wife and her Stepford Children are saying I cannot be in the room with her for very long, the dumbassery out of her really is a Youtube Moment waiting to happen. and then I ask them what they know on the subject and what do they think about it. I have them seperate "knowing’ from “feeling” because I am trying to raise vulcans here with logic and science. Naturally, since hormones are spiking, it isn’t going over well right now, but I shall perservere.
My son went to Catholic schools for his entire education. I did not participate in any religious functions. I told him why when he asked. I never discussed it in depth. I am not a believer but i didn’t want my decisions to be his. He could make his own.
In order to hold her own in conversation and reading, she should have an idea what the Ten Commandments say, what the Torah is, when the Protestant Reformation happened, etc. Being raised in a religious household doesn’t help all the time-we used to go on vacation in Pennsylvania Dutch country and I remember asking my Mom why there were so many Hasidim working in the fields. D’oh!
She should also know that there’s plenty of dissent and diversity within religions too; there’s Muslim women who cover everything and others who dress like Snooki; there’s Christians who deny evolution and people like me (RC) who learned it in parochial school like anybody else; there’s Jews who program elevators to stop at every floor on Shabbos so they don’t have to push buttons and folks cheerfully eating cheeseburgers at BBQs who call themselves Jewish, etc.
I don’t think I’d start with mythologies. I’d start with some good comparative/world religions books. Sorry, but I don’t have any age-appropriate materials to suggest. As she gets older, you can move on to discuss the different religions in more depth, for background knowledge if nothing else.
The point is just to let her know that there are many religions and beliefs to choose from. As you’ve already seen, she will pick up religious views from her surroundings, so giving her information about other options will help to balance that.
When she asks what you believe, and she will, then tell her the truth. Make sure she knows that whatever she believes is OK with you.
The one thing I absolutely would NOT do is let her attend services with fundamentalists until she is much, much older. Whack-job fundamentalists love to scare the ever-lovin’ shit out of little kids, in the effort to ‘save’ them. Living in the Bible Belt, I’ve known many people who were absolutely terrified by proselytizing fundies, I mean seriously traumatized. It’s not just the adults, either, the kids will do it too. I’ll grant them good intentions, but it’s really horrific when they mentally bludgeon small children.
I’ve raised two atheist daughters, both now adults. The way I did it was teaching critical reading. At the right time, 11 or 12, we sat down with the Bible and started going through Genesis, and I helped them find all the internal contradictions and illogic that the first part of Genesis is full of. I stopped when they got bored and got it. The point was not to say that religion is wrong because Genesis makes no sense, but to provide them with a set of tools with which they could evaluate religious claims they would run up against.
They both participated in activities at religious institutions with no ill effects. I very carefully never objected in any way to them doing so. My younger daughter did say once or twice, when she was mad at me, “I’m going to become a Christian” like some kids say they are going to run away from home. I laughed at her.
Maybe the most important thing is that we role-modeled being nonreligious. If they ever got told that being an atheist would lead to all sorts of horrible things, they had good evidence that this was a lie.
We did not, and I would not, go to a UU church. I have been to naming ceremonies at them, and the one we went to, in Princeton, had the definite feel of being almost Christian. In any case, I doubt many kids are going to be able to appreciate the distinction between a UU church and a normal church.
I’d go with the actual Bible. The problem with kids Bible stories (or even the stuff I learned in Hebrew School) is that it edits out all the contradictions and absurdities, and nasty stuff, and so makes everything seem very plausible. Genesis is not a hard read if you go slowly and explain. Maybe you can read one or two along with the myths at a very early age, so they know who Noah was, but definitely read the real one when your kid is old enough.
And be sure to treat the Bible stories the same as the myths - great stories you should know, and believed in by some people, but stories nonetheless.
Do you think this is the standard procedure for parents who believe in common religions? My parents didn’t wait until I asked to say they were Jewish, and I doubt Christians do either - nor should they. This makes it sound like atheism is some embarrassing secret to be only revealed when it has to be. Default atheism in a family is every bit as appropriate as default anything else.
This is not to say you tell a baby there is no god when she is in her crib, but you can make it clear whenever religion comes up naturally.
There are “christian feeling” congregations and “humanist feeling” congregations and congregations that have a definate pagan feel. One East Coast UU naming ceremony is not indicative of UU as a whole. In my opinion (and I was raised Catholic) our congregations naming ceremonies are very pagan feeling.
And what is the difference between a UU church and a normal church, praytell? A UU church IS a normal church - just not necessarily a Christian one. But they have the same idea of community and the same idea of inspiring a congregation to a set of values.
Apart from getting the books you’ve already ordered, I’d just let her lead the questioning, really. If you don’t know much about religions other than Christianity, then it’d be a good idea to get some info on them - perhaps by reading the books you get for her (kids’ books are great at distilling the essentials).
The festivals are an important part of religion for most kids, rather than the thinking behind it, and they’re interesting, fun, and a good way of learning about other cultures. They can be a good opportunity to tell your child more about religions: ‘oh, today’s Eid-Al-Fitr! That’s the end of Ramadan. Most Muslims fast for this month, which means not eating when the sun is up, but kids your age just have to remember the other things about Ramadan, like holding their temper…’ etc, changed to make it more understandable to your daughter depending on how much she already knows.
My daughter also went through a religious phase when she was about 6 or 7, apparently deciding that I was an atheist who needed to be converted. She even came up with the watchmaker analogy all by herself. I just answered her questions and talked with her as an equal; not like another adult with adult vocabulary and so on, obviously, but as another person who had questions about the world.
Now she’s 12 and an avowed atheist who’s shocked that was ever so evangelical. Last year she thought it was weird that I like carols at Christmas and sometimes give Noah’s Arks as presents to friends with babies, but she’s starting to understand that you can be atheist and still enjoy some of the cultural aspects of the various religions.
Thanks again for all the input. I suppose I am competent to discuss issues of theism with her generally (after all, I teach philosophy of religion!) As I said, my only concern is to do so in a way that is open and lets her know it’s okay if she doesn’t agree with me. I certainly appreciate what a couple of posters above said–although I would rather she didn’t wind up a theist, above all, she’s my kid and I want her to know that I love her without conditions, even if she winds up embracing something I reject. God knows we’ll disagree about plenty as she grows up, so I might as well get some practice dealing with it.
I think I will still read the mythology books with her, but I have also ordered a couple of books about contemporary world religions, including this one (which has good reviews). She already knows something about other religions (especially Islam, since we live in a Muslim country), but she can learn more. Also, we spent some time in Ireland this summer, and from the library she picked out “My First Passover Book” and made us read it to her again and again and again. Weird. But now she knows all about Passover. (Well, not all about it; the 10th plague was bowdlerized a bit, which, as **Voyager **notes, is a problem with children’s editions of these things). My daughter is only 6, so maybe reading the Bible with her can wait for a couple of years; but she is definitely interested in the subject.
QFT. I got my mitts on a Chick tract when I was in elementary school, and it scared the ever-loving shit out of me for weeks. I was convinced I was headed for eternal flames. This is part of why I say I think my wife is a bit naive about this stuff; I am absolutely not letting my daughter near any of that stuff. If my daughter is going to believe in a God, I’d much rather she stuck with her current God, who loves her because He lets her go to birthday parties and the circus and sometimes lets her have ice cream after school, when it’s really hot.
Well, this from their statement of faith implies they aren’t for real: (ridiculous part bolded by me)
But the rest seems so serious, I have a hard time believing it is fake. The letter in their News column should be helpful: was there really a “Political Activity Compliance Initiative” that was similar enough to fairplay.org that their tax-exempt status may have been at risk? Or, better yet, records or news stories about it?
Explain to her compassion, and I think you will have covered anything important about religions. Ever less evident in these times. Religion is a social scale and declaration of socially scaled morality and propitiousness, now a days. You can indoctrinate her, or teach her, it’s up to you…
I have looked at the Catholic book store, they are not literalists with the Bible and therefore religion can ft well with science. I don’t know what they are like in the states but here they are pretty moderate. Yeah yeah the whole priest child thing but thier teachings do fit with my scientific mind.
Very little, which was my impression. My problem is that a kids who grows up to respect what that guy in the pulpit says because he is in the pulpit might also respect what that guy in the other church says about Jesus.
Now I grew up Jewish, so I was in the club at birth and no one ever asked me to go out and recruit my friends and neighbors, and thus my view on organized religion is a lot different from most people. I never had a problem with it - it was just wrong.
I second Voyager on reading the actual Bible, and not just the popular parts. Unless you come to it pretaught, it’s a very strange book that does not have a very obvious connection to modern Christianity.
I just answered her questions and talked with her as an equal; not like another adult with adult vocabulary and so on, obviously, but as another person who had questions about the world.