# Help the Author Part 1: THE ISLAND **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 17, 2009, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-author-part-1-the-island/514164 "2009-10-17T20:47:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-author-part-1-the-island/514164/1 "2009-10-17T20:47:01Z")
Since my MPSIMS thread died, and since it didn’t really fit this particular question anyways, I decided to make a specific thread for each major topic. If I have one question about guns, I’ll post it in one of the “Ask the guy who is so obsessed with guns it’s creepy” threads; but if I have many questions about one topic, I’ll ask them in their own thread. So! Let’s pretend an island about the size of Madagascar exists somewhere in the Equatorial Pacific. Assuming that it hasn’t been discovered until the middle or end of the 19th century is absurd, but what about assuming that it hasn’t been explored? Maybe sailors have seen the island, but due to the island’s lack of appeal as a settlement, lack of resources, or even dangerous coral around it, only few have ever landed on it, and fewer explored it fully? Is this more reasonable? Can I get to the 1880s or later with this scenario? NOTE: I am aware that due to the way tectonic plates work, there are no large islands in the Pacific. Willful Suspension of Disbelief, please! ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-author-part-1-the-island/514164/2 "2009-10-17T22:03:36Z")
What on earth are you asking? If you’re willing to suspend disbelief, then anything is “reasonable.” ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-author-part-1-the-island/514164/3 "2009-10-17T22:05:42Z")
Yes, that’s true. But I find that the most compelling Science Fiction books aren’t the ones that completely change the way our world works, or the locations on it. No, the best Science Fiction books are those that change as few facts as possible, to create a nearly-believable setting. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-author-part-1-the-island/514164/4 "2009-10-17T22:11:54Z")
It might well have remained unexplored if the landscape was particularly inhospitable. Parts of New Guinea remained unknown until the 20th century. > [@](#): > > Before about 1930, most European maps showed the highlands as uninhabited forests. When first flown over by aircraft, numerous settlements with agricultural terraces and stockades were observed. The most startling discovery took place on 4 August 1938, when Richard Archbold discovered the Grand Valley of the Baliem River which had 50,000 yet-undiscovered Stone Age farmers living in orderly villages. The people, known as the Dani, were the last society of its size to make first contact with the rest of the world. [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Guinea#History) ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-author-part-1-the-island/514164/5 "2009-10-17T22:25:31Z")
Thank you so much, **aldiboronti**. I believe that with that piece of information, I am ready to complete the setting. One thing: Wikipedia’s cited source is a book called The Third Chimpanzee by Jared Diamond. A quick Google search of his name seems to show he is a reliable source, but can anyone confirm this? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-author-part-1-the-island/514164/6 "2009-10-17T23:04:17Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > One thing: Wikipedia’s cited source is a book called The Third Chimpanzee by Jared Diamond. A quick Google search of his name seems to show he is a reliable source, but can anyone confirm this? Jared Diamond is a highly respected scientist. Some have questioned his interpretations of facts in his popular books, including _Guns, Germs, and Steel_, but as far as the facts themselves go he is reliable. However, it is a well-established fact that the highland cultures of Papua-New Guinea first became known to outsiders in the 1930s, intially through the explorations of Australian [Mick Leahy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mick_Leahy). There is precedent for a densely populated area in the middle of a large land mass being almost completely unknown to the outside world well into the 20th Century. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-author-part-1-the-island/514164/7 "2009-10-17T23:23:06Z")
Perfect! Thank you very much. One last (well, probably not _last_) thing: Has this occurred only in New Guinea? Or have there been other significant features (Lakes, rivers, and other geological features, along with human settlements or similar things) that haven’t been discovered until late in history due to larger geographical features such as forests, jungles, and deserts? Now that I think about it, aren’t humans still mostly ignorant about the exact features of some areas in the Amazon or Congo, even with today’s satellite technology? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2009, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-author-part-1-the-island/514164/8 "2009-10-18T06:12:44Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Now that I think about it, aren’t humans still mostly ignorant about the exact features of some areas in the Amazon or Congo, even with today’s satellite technology? I wouldn’t say “mostly ignorant.” However, some details may not be well known. I led an expedition into a remote mountain range in eastern Panama, the Serrania de Jungurudo, in 1997, that was apparently about 400 m lower than was shown on available maps. Even my Indian guides said they hadn’t been in that area before. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2009, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-author-part-1-the-island/514164/9 "2009-10-18T20:00:13Z")
If the island was the size of Madagascar, I’m certain it would have been at least sighted within the Sixteenth century, the Seventeenth at the absolute latest. But it’s easy to postulate that it might be poorly explored:[ol][li]The island is in the middle of a particularly bad stretch of the Doldrums (the windless regions near the equator). It’s not easy to either sail there or sail away again. It’s also not directly on a course from anywhere to anywhere else, so it isn’t a convenient stopover.[_]The island is a plateau with sheer cliffs around most of its perimeter, with no good anchorage and very few places even a launch can beach. It’s also surrounded by reefs and/or treacherous rocks (think Kong Island).[_] The island is like a bowl with rocky and craggy terrain around the edge, although the interior might be a different story. At least near the shoreline, there’s no sign of fresh water. Not much for a hungry sailor to eat either except maybe some seabird roosts.The island is infested with yellow fever and malaria. Those sailors who do go ashore and live to tell of it condemn the island as a useless pestilential hell-hole.[/ol][/li] So you might have an island that is on the maps but remains mostly unknown until the “heroic” age of exploration by the British Empire. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2009, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-author-part-1-the-island/514164/10 "2009-10-18T23:20:14Z")
Allow me to ask a few questions: [ol][li] Can an island as large as Madagascar really be inaccessible from all directions? Certainly reefs can grow to that size, but can they be dangerous all around?[_] I understand how after someone lands on the island, they may spread stories about how many diseases it harbors. But how would the first sailors to discover the island be held off?[_] When, exactly, _is_ the “heroic” age of exploration? All searches for it refer to the Heroic Age of _Antarctic_ exploration.[/ol][/li] And finally, just to be clear: A large island with one or more of the above unattractive features, and perhaps a few more, could in fact remain unexplored until late in the 1800s? And how far? 1870? 1880? 1890s, even? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-author-part-1-the-island/514164/11 "2009-10-19T00:53:35Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > When, exactly, _is_ the “heroic” age of exploration? All searches for it refer to the Heroic Age of _Antarctic_ exploration. My bad, I didn’t know the phrase was already in use with a different meaning. I was referring to the post-Napoleonic era in which the British Empire began systematically exploring the globe for the sake of exploration, simply to fill in the maps. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-author-part-1-the-island/514164/12 "2009-10-19T01:10:43Z")
And how long did it last? Would a group of explorers motivated by this reasoning still exist in 1870? Later decades?