# "Help. the clown forcefed me Big Macs!" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 21, 2002, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964 "2002-11-21T16:37:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2002, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964/101 "2002-11-25T00:30:38Z")
I mean that unless we can show that a smoker in making their choice fully understands the consequences of their actions–which to me, at least in part, means that they would make the same choice in hindsight once those consequences occur–then “informed” consent is a total non-starter as a defense against liability. That is–and I phrased it unclearly–to the extent that cigarette companies knowingly produced an addictive product, the risks of which were systematically downplayed, liability should accrue regardless of whether individual smokers, in choosing to start smoking, had some vague awareness that sometime in the future cigarettes were likely to accelerate their death in a variety of nasty ways. Hope that’s better-worded. If you’d like to start a GD thread on this subject, feel free to quote my last two posts in your OP to set the bounds of debate. Once I finish the two short papers I’ve got due for class tomorrow, I’ll gladly participate. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2002, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964/102 "2002-11-25T02:08:54Z")
I [created a GD thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=146051) about informed choice and smoking, in case anyone wants to continue that line of discourse. ---
**Author:** ![Fornit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c89c15/32.png) [@Fornit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fornit)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2002, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964/103 "2002-11-25T07:42:33Z")
I recall reading several years ago that McDonald’s was forced to stop advertising on their placemats that their food was healthy… unfortunately now that I look for the site, all I come up with are links concerning the current lawsuit. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2002, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964/104 "2002-11-25T11:15:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Avumede \* > \*\*Mr2001, please see my previous comment (the one above the one you responded to). > > _[Well what would you classify as unhealthy? Things that cause problems when ingested in small amounts? Basically only stuff like cyanide?]_\*\* You seem to be using the term “unhealthy” to shift blame onto McDonald’s, so yeah. Basically anything you should never put in your mouth. A candy bar is a bar of empty calories, devoid of nutrition. If you eat a case of Snickers every day, you’ll get really fat. But a Snickers bar isn’t “unhealthy” in the sense that no one should ever eat them, or that the company should be fined for selling them to the public. They’re only unhealthy if you eat too many, and the consumer is the one who decides how many to eat. (Contrary to marketing hype, you _can_ eat just one Lay’s potato chip, and you can eat one Twix and save the other for later.) The same is true of most any food. If you eat nothing but cereal, you won’t be in great shape, but one bowl of cereal every day won’t hurt. If you drink a bottle of wine every day, you’ll ruin your liver, but a glass of wine is good for your heart. McDonald’s hamburgers aren’t “unhealthy” in any more sense than cereal or wine. If you eat a hamburger once a week, you’ll be fine. ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2002, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964/105 "2002-11-25T11:25:16Z")
> [@](#): > > **Don’t put hot things between your legs if you don’t want to get burnt.** Every Good Girl’s Motto ---
**Author:** ![Avumede](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/avumede/32/7235_2.png) [@Avumede](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avumede)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2002, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964/106 "2002-11-25T12:37:12Z")
2001, thats ridiculous. Under your definition, all foods are essentially the same level of healthiness, since most food can be eaten occasionally without any bad effect, and if a large portion of diet is harmful. In fact you admit so yourself: > [@](#): > > The same is true of most any food Obviously this is not a useful definition of healthy or unhealthy food you are using. The rest of us go by things like nutritional content. Try it sometime. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964/107 "2002-11-26T01:00:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Avumede \* > \*\*Obviously this is not a useful definition of healthy or unhealthy food you are using. The rest of us go by things like nutritional content. Try it sometime. \*\* Checking the nutritional content is a great way to decide how much of a certain food you should eat. Depending on your individual metabolism and dietary needs, you may be able to eat two hamburgers every day and stay in shape. Or you may not be able to eat any. However, nutritional content is a _terrible_ way to shift blame onto the manufacturer. All foods have different nutritional balances; some have lots of sugar but few vitamins, some have lots of vitamins but no protein. If you choose a diet that’s high in some nutrients but deficient in others, or a diet that meets your nutritional needs but contains excessive amounts of sodium or fat, you’ll get out of shape _no matter which specific foods you eat_. Blaming McDonald’s because their hamburgers have too much fat and not enough other nutrients is like blaming Chevrolet because their cars only work on land. If you want a boat, don’t go to a car dealer. If you want a balanced meal in one sitting, don’t go to McDonald’s. The facts are out there, and it’s quite possible to fit Mickey D’s into a balanced diet, just like it’s possible to fit Snickers, soda, cereal, and oat bran. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964/108 "2002-11-26T01:13:21Z")
I wonder, is there a MacDonalds in [Mississippi](http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=6155548&BRD=1838&PAG=461&dept_id=104621&rfi=6) ? ---
**Author:** ![Avumede](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/avumede/32/7235_2.png) [@Avumede](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avumede)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964/109 "2002-11-26T01:35:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Checking the nutritional content is a great way to decide how much of a certain food you should eat. Yes, and generally, the less you eat of foods like McDonalds, the healthier your diet will be, and the healthier you will be. This follows directly from what I said, and from the quote above, you don’t seem to disagree. Not many people would disagree. Except McDonalds, that is. So I think they deserve some blame, in part for promoting themselves as healthy. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964/110 "2002-11-26T01:56:40Z")
I’m a 5" 10" tall, 37 year old male. Two years ago, I weighed 165 pounds. For two years, I had a job in a location where there were very few restaurants nearby, except for fast food chains. I ate at McDonalds for lunch about three times a week … usually a Big Mac or Filet O’Fish value meal. Upsized it too, much of the time. Now, I weigh 165 pounds. McDonalds food didn’t fatten me up. Maybe if I was eating eight or nine Big Mac meals and taking in 6000 or 7000 calories every day, ever day, for years, I’d gain a lot of weight. Just one meal, though? Nope … these overweight plantiffs were eating much, much more. ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964/111 "2002-11-26T02:30:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elmwood \* > \*\*I’m a 5" 10" tall, 37 year old male. Two years ago, I weighed 165 pounds. > > For two years, I had a job in a location where there were very few restaurants nearby, except for fast food chains. I ate at McDonalds for lunch about three times a week … usually a Big Mac or Filet O’Fish value meal. Upsized it too, much of the time. > > Now, I weigh 165 pounds. McDonalds food didn’t fatten me up. Maybe if I was eating eight or nine Big Mac meals and taking in 6000 or 7000 calories every day, ever day, for years, I’d gain a lot of weight. Just one meal, though? Nope … these overweight plantiffs were eating much, much more. \*\* That’s the really stupid thing about the lawsuit. Of course McDonalds is unhealthy, but unless you eat too much it won’t make you fat. I’ve just come off a month where I pretty much didn’t eat anything but Burger King and vitamin pills (don’t ask why :)) and I weigh less now than when I began. ---
**Author:** ![reprise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@reprise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reprise)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964/112 "2002-11-26T02:30:56Z")
OK, I finally found the [breakfast cereal](http://www.choice.com.au/articles/a101129p1.htm) report. It’s interesting to note how many popular cereals fall into the “not recommended to be eaten daily” category. Although some of the products might have slightly different names here (such as “pops” rather than “puffs”), you’ll probably recognise most of them. I’m still hunting for the fast food report, which also included popular “to go” choices such as Lebanese and Chinese take-away (I was astounded at how badly Lebanese food faired in the report). ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964/113 "2002-11-26T02:41:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Avumede \* > **Yes, and generally, the less you eat of foods like McDonalds, the healthier your diet will be, and the healthier you will be.** Depends what you replace them with. If you start eating Snickers bars instead of Big Macs, you’ll probably be worse off. There’s no correlation between eating Big Macs and being out of shape; however, there is a correlation between eating an _overall unhealthy diet_ and being out of shape. A Big Mac is just bread, cheese, meat, and condiments. If you stop eating Big Macs but start eating more sandwiches and steaks, you won’t change a thing. The problem is that bread, cheese, meat, and condiments do not make a balanced diet by themselves. The solution, then, is not to impose fines on the companies that sell these items; the solution is to encourage people to eat more balanced meals. If McDonald’s is fraudulently promoting their food as healthy, they deserve some blame for it. But I haven’t heard of them doing that. Calling a cereal “part of this balanced breakfast” doesn’t mean you can eat nothing but Cap’n Crunch; it means that cereal + toast + juice + milk + whatever else is shown = a balanced breakfast. A Big Mac can be part of a balanced meal in the very same way, and I don’t believe McDonald’s has made any stronger claims than that. ---
**Author:** ![reprise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@reprise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reprise)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964/114 "2002-11-26T02:50:36Z")
Here’s another interesting one : [Oodles of noodles](http://www.choice.com.au/articles/a102054p1.htm), which rates what we call “2-minute noodles” here and people in the US call “Ramen”. And here are two articles which were issued earlier than the report I’m thinking of (ie, the one which included ethnic takeaway food). [Is fast food fat food?](http://www.choice.com.au/articles/a101270p1.htm) [Doctors and consumers call upon fast food industry to stop targeting kids](http://www.choice.com.au/articles/a103015p1.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Avumede](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/avumede/32/7235_2.png) [@Avumede](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avumede)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964/115 "2002-11-26T15:16:13Z")
Mr2001, if you read above in this thread, you will see that McDonalds has in fact claimed their meals as healthy. As for the rest of your post… since I said “food like McDonalds” I’m obviously stating that you would be healthier replacing the food with a food unlike McDonalds, in other words, something that is not junk food. Perhaps I could have been clearer. > [@](#): > > A Big Mac is just bread, cheese, meat, and condiments. If you stop eating Big Macs but start eating more sandwiches and steaks, you won’t change a thing. Are you suggesting that Subway is not in fact healthier than McDonalds? I mean, they sell sandwiches that are just bread, sometimes cheese, meat and condiments. Do you admit there is a difference? ---
**Author:** ![jeevmon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@jeevmon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jeevmon)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964/116 "2002-11-26T16:30:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Avumede \* > \*\*McDonalds advertises their food towards children, who simply don’t have the judgement or maturity to resist it. The children then invariably beg their parents to go, and children and parent being what they are, the children end up going to McDonalds. How many parents do you know who have said “I’m not going to let my kids eat junk food”, and then end up going to McDonalds several times a week? Yes its possible to resist, but it doesn’t often happen. > > Whether the case against McDonalds is strong or not I can’t say. I’m not a lawyer. But I think they are doing something wrong by advertising to children, then selling them products that are bad for them. \*\* It’s not McDonalds’ fault if parents choose not to be parents and instead just open their wallet every time a kid whines for something. Kids always want things, they want them now, and it is the job of parents to teach them delayed gratification or that you can’t always get what you want. In the absence of mass media advertising, kids would still want things that they can’t or shouldn’t have. They would want things that their classmates or friends have, that they see in stores, etc. Yes, advertising may stimulate children to demand things, just as it may stimulate adults to want to buy things. It is the job of adults to determine what children may and may not have, and it is not McDonalds’ problem if the adults are too spineless to tell their kids no. McDonalds sells food products. Any food product is unhealthy if you consume too much of it. Read that again - _any food product_. An all fruits and veggies diet is unhealthy. An all meat diet is unhealthy. An all-Jared’s sandwiches diet is unhealthy. And, yes, an all McDonalds or fast food diet is unhealthy. But fruits and veggies, in balance, meat, in balance, and McDonalds, in balance, are not in and of themselves unhealthy. So unless McDonalds is lacing its food with ingredients designed to stimulate addiction (something which could be shown in the case of tobacco), it is simply selling a food product which consumers may choose to eat or not to eat. Kids may demand it and McDonalds may even try to stimulate that demand in kids, just like any manufacturer of toy products, soft drinks, or recreation areas. But that does not a lawsuit create. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964/117 "2002-11-26T16:39:14Z")
Neurotik, It wasn’t the fact that she got burned, but how badly she was burned. Mcdonalds were found responsible for serving excessively hot coffee after they were warned not to, and for not providing safe enough cups (I believe that the lid of the coffee wasn’t secured correctly in the store). ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964/118 "2002-11-26T17:02:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jeevmon \* > \*\*McDonalds sells food products. Any food product is unhealthy if you consume too much of it. Read that again - _any food product_. An all fruits and veggies diet is unhealthy. \*\* Beg to differ on one point: A vegan (all fruits and veggies) diet is not unhealthy. Vegans who know how to properly combine their foods to maximize a healthy protein and vitamin intake can have exceptionally healthy diets. (The only real tough one can be Vitamin B12 which has very few non-animal product sources.) Otherwise, yes, if I decide to eat nothing but oranges or nothing but broccoli, I’d eventually become sick. **Mr2001** – As for a Big Mac being “bread,” “meat” and “cheese” – don’t forget that McD’s food is processed to the point where they have to synthesize artificial flavours to put back into the food because the actual flavour (and much of the nutritional value) is destroyed in the processing. A fresh steak, a bun and a slice of cheddar has _significantly_ different nutritional value than a Big Mac. ---
**Author:** ![Avumede](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/avumede/32/7235_2.png) [@Avumede](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avumede)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964/119 "2002-11-26T17:49:59Z")
Jeevmon, I’d respond to your points, but I’ve already shown that the “all food products are equal since they all can be unhealthy if consumed exclusively” argument is bogus. Just reread my previous posts. ---
**Author:** ![Bongmaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Bongmaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bongmaster)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964/120 "2002-11-26T21:47:01Z")
If I could get these fat-ass kids in a room together, I would first beat them all senseless them make them eat each other. Then I’d find their parents who are supporting this lawsuit and force them to eat the remaining fat kid. People all over the world are LAUGHING at the US when stuff like this comes up in our legal system. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964.md?page=7)