# "Help. the clown forcefed me Big Macs!" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 21, 2002, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964 "2002-11-21T16:37:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![reprise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@reprise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reprise)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964/121 "2002-11-26T22:24:38Z")
I’d just like to chime in here as a parent whose children were once young. Those stupid plastic toys which come with Happy Meals are the most expensive pieces of shit my kids have ever owned. My kids used to toss the burger and the chips, drink the Coke, and $4 later they had the world’s crappiest breakable “toy”. My kids NEVER wanted to go to McD’s for the food, but hell those 2 cent toys sucked them in every time. ---
**Author:** ![lurkernomore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@lurkernomore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lurkernomore)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964/122 "2002-11-26T22:25:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr2001 \* > \*\* A Big Mac is just bread, cheese, meat, and condiments. If you stop eating Big Macs but start eating more sandwiches and steaks, you won’t change a thing. \*\* Yeah, but I don’t fry my sandwiches and steaks. In moderation, OK. When that 400 pounder passed 250, didn’t someone notice and think maybe they should change what they ate? Love to see a suit come down: “We find Mc Donald’s negligent and charge $10 million in punitive damages.” “However, since the paintiffs have shown themselves to be such morons they would be incompetent with this money, it will go to a public eating-awareness education fund.” ---
**Author:** ![jeevmon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@jeevmon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jeevmon)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964/123 "2002-11-26T23:13:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eats\_Crayons \* > \*\*Beg to differ on one point: A vegan (all fruits and veggies) diet is not unhealthy. Vegans who know how to properly combine their foods to maximize a healthy protein and vitamin intake can have exceptionally healthy diets. (The only real tough one can be Vitamin B12 which has very few non-animal product sources.) > > Otherwise, yes, if I decide to eat nothing but oranges or nothing but broccoli, I’d eventually become sick. > > **Mr2001** – As for a Big Mac being “bread,” “meat” and “cheese” – don’t forget that McD’s food is processed to the point where they have to synthesize artificial flavours to put back into the food because the actual flavour (and much of the nutritional value) is destroyed in the processing. A fresh steak, a bun and a slice of cheddar has _significantly_ different nutritional value than a Big Mac. \*\* Vegans eat grains, last time I checked. I was not including grains as a “vegetable” since they are generally not viewed as such in most discussions of diet. With that caveat, I stand by my statement. ---
**Author:** ![jeevmon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@jeevmon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jeevmon)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964/124 "2002-11-26T23:35:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Avumede \* > \*\*Jeevmon, I’d respond to your points, but I’ve already shown that the “all food products are equal since they all can be unhealthy if consumed exclusively” argument is bogus. Just reread my previous posts. \*\* No one is saying that all food products are “equal.” There is a similarity in that excessive consumption of any food product may be detrimental to one’s health (i.e. unhealthy), but what constitutes “excessive” is dependent on the food consumed. That’s not the issue. The question is whether McDonalds should be held liable because it sells food products that have questionable nutritional merit (or, perhaps more accurately, foods whose nutritional content is counterbalanced by other, less desirable content). You have argued that they should because: 1. The products are unhealthy; 2. McDonalds advertises them as healthy; and 3. McDonalds markets its products to children who are too young to know any better. Point 1 is really dependent on how much you’re talking about, and also depends on the person consuming them - i.e. their metabolism and the amount they exercise. This is the point which others are making and that you seem to be missing. It’s not that we’re saying that oranges are equal to Big Macs. It’s that both are food products, with relative merits and demerits, and that excessive consumption of either one could be unhealthy. Point 2, well, I’ve never seen evidence of that. I’ve seen McDonalds promote its products as delicious, as a means for families to bond, and as being consumed by TV and movie characters, but I can’t recall ever, in 30 years, seeing a claim by McDonalds that their products are healthy. They are food. Food itself is neither intrinsically healthy nor unhealthy. Whether it’s healthy or not depends on how much you consume, what else you’re consuming, your physiology and how much you exercise. If all you eat are McDonalds burgers and Ho-Hos and never exercise, yeah, you will probably be less healthy than someone who eats fruits, veggies, whole grains and runs 5 miles a day. These are extremes, obviously, but it is a continuum. Now, if I see evidence of a representation that the food is healthy, I’d accept that this is potentially a problem. But I just haven’t seen it yet. Point 3 is the one I was particularly troubled with because the post I was responding to said McDonalds advertises to kids, and kids make the parents buy them the food and that’s why McDonalds is wrong. And my point was that it is not McDonalds’ job to teach children self-discipline or to monitor other people’s children’s diets. If parents have no spine and give into all of their kids demands, well, they’ll end up with fat, spoiled brats. That’s not McDonalds’ fault. It’s the parents’ fault for abdicating their responsibility. Now, if McDonalds is engaging in false advertising, then they should be liable for the consequences of that advertising, but that does not mean that they should not have the legal right to sell Big Macs to whoever wants to buy them. But the fact that McDonalds tries to make its products appealing to kids should not be a basis for finding liability. ---
**Author:** ![Avumede](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/avumede/32/7235_2.png) [@Avumede](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avumede)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964/125 "2002-11-27T01:30:23Z")
Point 1- Regardless of metabolism, McDonalds food is unhealthy. That doesn’t mean that you will be unhealthy if you eat it once, but on the whole, the less you eat it (and replace it with more healthy equivalents) the better off you will be. If McDonalds said that their producs are suitable for the very occasional consumption, I would agree with them. But they deny this (see my cite above), and say it can be a regular part of a healthy diet. This is not true. Saying things like (about oranges and Big Macs) “both are food products, with relative merits and demerits, and that excessive consumption of either one could be unhealthy” is ridiculous. The merits of Big Macs are small and the demerits large. The reverse is true for oranges. You don’t have to consume a lot of Big Mac’s for it to start to have a negative effect on your health. However, I’ve never heard of anyone having health problems from consuming too many oranges. > [@](#): > > Point 2, well, I’ve never seen evidence of that. What do you mean? Several people have stated that McDonalds did, both at the libel trial, and one person stated they claimed they were healthy in the 80’s. I even posted a cite for them claiming they were healthy just a few weeks ago, for goodness sake! Are you not seeing this? Point 3 - No one is proposing that McDonalds teach children self-discipline or monitor diets. Just cut back, or tone down the advertising for children. Hypothetical question, what if McDonalds somehow could make children physically addicted to McDonalds food? Is this ethical, since it’s the parents job just to say no when their kid wants to go? And I’m not saying that all this means they should be sued. I don’t know, I’m not a lawyer. But I think McDonalds is not behaving ethically. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964/126 "2002-11-27T03:46:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > \*\*Big macs are not addictive. \*\* Mmmm, speak for yourself. (I’m kidding here) ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964/127 "2002-11-27T04:04:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Avumede \* > **Regardless of metabolism, McDonalds food is unhealthy. That doesn’t mean that you will be unhealthy if you eat it once, but on the whole, the less you eat it (and replace it with more healthy equivalents) the better off you will be.** Again, the same can be said of many foods. If you eat granola instead of Snickers, or drink water instead of soda, you’ll probably be healthier. But you seem to be making the jump from “a Big Mac is not as healthy as many other foods” to “it is unethical to sell Big Macs”. That’s ludicrous. People have a right to eat whatever they want. > [@](#): > > **Saying things like (about oranges and Big Macs) “both are food products, with relative merits and demerits, and that excessive consumption of either one could be unhealthy” is ridiculous. The merits of Big Macs are small and the demerits large. The reverse is true for oranges.** If you don’t eat anything else with protein or fat in it, an occasional Big Mac may be exactly what you need. An orange, on the other hand, won’t help you because it has neither. The point is that you must consider the nutritional content of your diet as a whole. You’ll get just as fat stuffing yourself with oranges as with Big Macs, it just takes more of them because an orange has less energy than a Big Mac. > [@](#): > > **You don’t have to consume a lot of Big Mac’s for it to start to have a negative effect on your health. However, I’ve never heard of anyone having health problems from consuming too many oranges.** Perhaps because people don’t like oranges enough to consume them in the same quantities as Big Macs. > [@](#): > > **What do you mean? Several people have stated that McDonalds did, both at the libel trial, and one person stated they claimed they were healthy in the 80’s. I even posted a cite for them claiming they were healthy just a few weeks ago, for goodness sake! Are you not seeing this?** You mean the cite with nothing juicier than “That is the opinion of one consultant in France; we do not share this view at all”? Personally, I don’t share the views of the French advertisement either. This one in particular: “There is no reason to … go more than once a week to McDonald’s.” I eat fast food a few times a week, and I have for quite a while. I’m 5-foot-9 and weigh around 160 lbs. Clearly, eating hamburgers more than once a week is not making me obese. > [@](#): > > **Hypothetical question, what if McDonalds somehow could make children physically addicted to McDonalds food? Is this ethical, since it’s the parents job just to say no when their kid wants to go?** Of course not. If my aunt were a man, would she still be my aunt? McDonald’s food isn’t addictive, it’s just tasty and marketed to a demographic that likes tasty food. The same demographic also likes shiny toys and theme parks. Is it unethical to advertise Pokemon and Disneyland to kids? ---
**Author:** ![Kirkland1244](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kirkland1244](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kirkland1244)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964/128 "2002-11-27T04:25:33Z")
[Here’s another perspective on the issue…](http://www.pvponline.com/archive.php3?archive=20021123) How true it is… Kirk ---
**Author:** ![Avumede](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/avumede/32/7235_2.png) [@Avumede](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avumede)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964/129 "2002-11-27T05:34:01Z")
> [@](#): > > But you seem to be making the jump from “a Big Mac is not as healthy as many other foods” to “it is unethical to sell Big Macs”. That’s ludicrous. People have a right to eat whatever they want. Big logical gap here. People have a right to eat whatever they want (actually not true, I don’t have a right to eat human flesh for example, but I’ll give you the point anyway), but this doesn’t mean that it’s therefore morally correct to sell them what they want. Of course, people have different takes on ethical situations, so YMMV. I personally believe it is unethical to sell food that is bad for you when you can sell food that is good for you. Perhaps McDonalds would go out of business selling healthy food. I don’t know, but that’s unrelated to the morality of selling unhealthy food. > [@](#): > > If you don’t eat anything else with protein or fat in it, an occasional Big Mac may be exactly what you need. An orange, on the other hand, won’t help you because it has neither. > > The point is that you must consider the nutritional content of your diet as a whole. You’ll get just as fat stuffing yourself with oranges as with Big Macs, it just takes more of them because an orange has less energy than a Big Mac. No, a Big Mac will never be exactly what you need. You don’t need the extra baggage a Big Mac comes with. You could eat plenty of healthier foods that provide protein and fat. And let’s be realistic, shall we? While you could theoretically become fat eat oranges, it would take a ridiculous amount. > [@](#): > > You mean the cite with nothing juicier than “That is the opinion of one consultant in France; we do not share this view at all”? Read the quote again. They don’t agree with the quite reasonable statement that people shouldn’t eat at McDonalds more than once a week. This means they think it’s healthy to eat as part of a normal diet, like I said they did. > [@](#): > > I eat fast food a few times a week, and I have for quite a while. I’m 5-foot-9 and weigh around 160 lbs. Clearly, eating hamburgers more than once a week is not making me obese. Congratulations. But don’t be fooled into thinking you are as healthy as you could be, though. Remember, there is no safe level of trans fatty acids. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964/130 "2002-11-27T08:03:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Avumede \* > **I personally believe it is unethical to sell food that is bad for you when you can sell food that is good for you.** I can’t believe you’re serious. Is it unethical to sell 2% milk when you could be selling skim milk instead? Is it unethical to sell granola when you could be selling oat bran instead? Is it unethical to sell avocados when you could be selling celery instead? > [@](#): > > **Read the quote again. They don’t agree with the quite reasonable statement that people shouldn’t eat at McDonalds more than once a week. This means they think it’s healthy to eat as part of a normal diet, like I said they did.** I’m sorry, it’s _not_ reasonable. Some people will get fat eating at McDonald’s thrice a week, some will not. You’re also ignoring the variety of the McDonald’s menu–if you go to McDonald’s twice a week and have a box of orange juice and a cookie, you’re fine. (Oh wait, I guess it’s unethical to sell cookies when they could sell carrot sticks instead!) You’re _also_ forgetting about what people might eat _instead_ of McDonald’s. Lebanese take-out? TV dinner? Top Ramen? You said McDonald’s claimed their food was “healthy” in general. Make up your mind. A Big Mac is healthy “as part of a normal diet” just like Cap’n Crunch is healthy “as part of this balanced breakfast”. You may have to compensate for the burger’s deficiencies and unwanted extras by changing the other foods you eat, but again, the same is true of any food. > [@](#): > > **Congratulations. But don’t be fooled into thinking you are as healthy as you could be, though. Remember, there is no safe level of trans fatty acids.** Thanks for the heads-up, [Willie Munchright.](http://www.mcdonalds.com/countries/usa/food/eating_right/) :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964/131 "2002-11-27T10:51:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Avumede \* > \*\* You don’t need the extra baggage a Big Mac comes with. \*\* Big Macs come with baggage now?? It’s true that no one _needs_ a Big Mac. But no one ever _needs_ a candy bar. Or a slice of pie. Or a beer. But their nice to have every now and then. To me, nothing gets you out of having to be responsible for what you do. You’ve got choices available to you. And you have to live with the results of those choices. Wanting someone else to pay for them makes you a piece of shit. Such a person is saying “Please run my life for me. for I am too stupid to look out for myself” I mean ‘you’ in a general sense. I’m not directing that at **Avumede**. ---
**Author:** ![Avumede](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/avumede/32/7235_2.png) [@Avumede](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avumede)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964/132 "2002-11-27T17:39:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Is it unethical to sell 2% milk when you could be selling skim milk instead? > Is it unethical to sell granola when you could be selling oat bran instead? > Is it unethical to sell avocados when you could be selling celery instead? Straw man. This is what I said: > [@](#): > > I personally believe it is unethical to sell food that is bad for you when you can sell food that is good for you. Since none of the food you mentioned is bad for you (not at the level of junk food, at least), then it’s not unethical. I think it’s unethical to sell poison to someone for consumption. Less unethical than that is to sell cigarettes. And less unethical then that is to sell junk food. If you agree that it’s unethical to sell poison to someone for consumption, then isn’t the ethicality of selling junk food just a matter of where you draw the line? > [@](#): > > I’m sorry, it’s not reasonable. Some people will get fat eating at McDonald’s thrice a week, some will not. First of all, being fat is just one symptom of being unhealthy. You could also have high cholestorol, blood pressure, etc. But since we know (and you have not disputed) that you could always eat healthier food than McDonalds, then logically there is no reason to eat at McDonalds more than once a week. If you assume that you will be eating healthier food than McDonalds when you do not eat at McDonalds, logically you will be better off following this advice. > [@](#): > > To me, nothing gets you out of having to be responsible for what you do. You’ve got choices available to you. And you have to live with the results of those choices. Wanting someone else to pay for them makes you a piece of shit. Such a person is saying “Please run my life for me. for I am too stupid to look out for myself” Doesn’t this apply to corporations as well? Advertising to children, claiming your food as healthy, then saying “What, you did what we wanted you to do? What we told you to do? What an idiot! Hey, not our fault.” seems very slimy to me. McDonalds made a choice to sell what they sell. If there can be a case made against them for it, then too bad for them. ---
**Author:** ![jeevmon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@jeevmon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jeevmon)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964/133 "2002-11-27T19:20:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Avumede \* > \*\* > I think it’s unethical to sell poison to someone for consumption. Less unethical than that is to sell cigarettes. And less unethical then that is to sell junk food. If you agree that it’s unethical to sell poison to someone for consumption, then isn’t the ethicality of selling junk food just a matter of where you draw the line? > Doesn’t this apply to corporations as well? Advertising to children, claiming your food as healthy, then saying “What, you did what we wanted you to do? What we told you to do? What an idiot! Hey, not our fault.” seems very slimy to me. McDonalds made a choice to sell what they sell. If there can be a case made against them for it, then too bad for them. \*\* The poison comparison is highly faulty. Poison has no purpose other than to kill living creatures. Selling it to someone for consumption is contrary to itsintended purpose. Junk food is intended for consumption. You don’t have to believe that it’s ethical to sell poison for consumption in order to believe that it’s ethical to sell food products that achieve their intended purpose. (satiating the appetite). Now, as far as the advertising that the products are “healthy”, I have been an American consumer for 30 years and have never, not once, seen any claim that McDonalds food is healthy. The company statement that you refer to said as follows: “The vast majority of nutrition professionals say that McDonald’s food can be and is a part of a healthy diet based on the sound nutrition principles of balance, variety and moderation,” [http://cbc.ca/stories/2002/10/31/burger\_france021031](http://cbc.ca/stories/2002/10/31/burger_france021031) It is not a statement that McDonald’s is “healthy” in an absolute sense (whatever that means), but that McDonalds food can be part (not all, part) of a healthy diet _in moderation and in balance with other food products._ This is not a statement that you should “eat McDonalds because it’s good for you”, but rather a statement that you don’t necessarily have to forsake McDonalds to live a healthy life. Moreover, this was a press statement. I can’t recall a single piece of McDonalds’ consumer-side advertising that made claims as to health benefits. I’m sure the homeless kid in New York who is one of the plaintiffs was reading McDonalds press releases. Now, the advertising point is interesting because you are now recanting what you said earlier. You originally said: > [@](#): > > McDonalds advertises their food towards children, who simply don’t have the judgement or maturity to resist it. The children then invariably beg their parents to go, and children and parent being what they are, the children end up going to McDonalds. How many parents do you know who have said “I’m not going to let my kids eat junk food”, and then end up going to McDonalds several times a week? Yes its possible to resist, but it doesn’t often happen. You criticize McDonalds for marketing towards children, and state that McDonalds is acting unethically because they try to appeal to children who then essentially compel their parents to take them to McDonalds several times a week. The way you originally phrased this complaint was to be independent of any claims of health benefits because children, as you described them, don’t have the maturity or judgment to evaluate health benefits. By that logic, nobody should attempt to market products that appeal to children but that may not be desirable for them if consumed to excess. Video games and TV shows, for example, promote sedentary lifestyles if used to excess, and therefore can also contribute to obesity (as well as possibly exacerbating attention-span deficit issues and vision problems, things that aren’t usually claimed for a Big Mac). People who make sweetened food products are also making products that appeal to children, and that could contribute to obesity and attention-span deficit disorders. Should the makers of those products also be forbidden from advertising because they advertise towards children? After all, these products are also advertised to appeal to children (by emphasizing excitement and entertainment), the same children who don’t, in your mind, have the judgment or maturity to resist those advertisements, and who invariably beg their parents to get them the games, let them play the games, or let them watch TV shows, which invariably leads to parents giving in. The demand effect is the same, only the product is different. So, in your world, we’d have to ban video game advertising and advertising for child-oriented TV shows because, goodness knows, the parents can’t be relied on to make the “right” choices for their children’s welfare. But wait, even if they aren’t advertised, children may encounter these products at other children’s houses, or in a store, and want them anyway, just as a child who walks by a McDonalds and sees people eating in there may beg to go in for a hamburger. These same children, who don’t have the maturity or judgment to know better, will demand the same thing of their parents, perhaps even more strongly because so-and-so’s parents bought one for him/her. So, those companies that market products that are intrinsically appealing to children, such as video games, should be labelled as unethical and possibly subject to liability for making their products so darned appealing. Perhaps we should just outlaw those products all together, since the demand effect you describe can be created independent of any advertising, simply by the product being out there in the marketplace. I can see the class action in the future where Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo are all hauled into court for contributing to childhood obesity by making video games that appeal to children. I can hear the parental bleating now: “I didn’t know that it wasn’t healthy for him to be sitting in front of the PlayStation playing games for 6 hours a day!” ---
**Author:** ![reprise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@reprise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reprise)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964/134 "2002-11-27T21:02:43Z")
I wonder what would be left on the supermarket shelves if every “unhealthy” food was removed from them. How is McDonalds any more unethical than your average supermarket, or breakfast cereal manufacturer (and breakfast cereal manufacturers deliberately pitch their least nutritious products at children)? I do find the level of obesity in children disturbingly high, but surely the blame should be placed with the parents who allow their children to regularly eat an unbalanced diet rather than the producers of foods which most people would regard as an occasional treat. I find it EXTREMELY difficult to believe that most parents in this day and age are unaware of what constitutes a balanced diet, so the question is why these parents are **choosing** to regularly feed their children an **un** balanced diet. Money clearly isn’t the reason (junk food is hardly a cheap option), and I doubt that convenience is the major factor either (there are plenty of “ready to go” meals available in supermarkets for a comparable price). I know that sometimes parents give into the persistent nagging of their children, but I doubt that many parents give in every single time their child nags them for something. About the only possible explanation I can come up with for parents choosing to feed their children this kind of unhealthy diet (as opposed for the kind of unhealthy diet parents might resort to when finances are tight) is apathy. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964/135 "2002-11-27T21:51:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Enderw24 \* > \*\*Yes, but you have to have it His way. > > How’s that? \*\* That will do nicely, hehe. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Avumede \* > \*\*Big logical gap here. People have a right to eat whatever they want (actually not true, I don’t have a right to eat human flesh for example, but I’ll give you the point anyway), but this doesn’t mean that it’s therefore morally correct to sell them what they want. Of course, people have different takes on ethical situations, so YMMV. I personally believe it is unethical to sell food that is bad for you when you can sell food that is good for you. Perhaps McDonalds would go out of business selling healthy food. I don’t know, but that’s unrelated to the morality of selling unhealthy food. > \*\* This perhaps is the dumbest fucking statement I’ve read in my life. ---
**Author:** ![Avumede](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/avumede/32/7235_2.png) [@Avumede](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avumede)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964/136 "2002-11-27T22:45:58Z")
> [@](#): > > This perhaps is the dumbest fucking statement I’ve read in my life. And that’s the most useless statement I’ve read in my life. Care to elaborate on what is so fucking dumb? > [@](#): > > I find it EXTREMELY difficult to believe that most parents in this day and age are unaware of what constitutes a balanced diet, so the question is why these parents are choosing to regularly feed their children an un balanced diet. Money clearly isn’t the reason (junk food is hardly a cheap option), and I doubt that convenience is the major factor either (there are plenty of “ready to go” meals available in supermarkets for a comparable price). I think there are reasons why McDonalds is so popular. It’s obviously not because of the food. With the exception of their fries, their food is not very good. A Taiwanese friend of mine recently said how the American food in Taiwan is much better than the American food in America. He said you can go in a McDonalds and order a burger, and it actually looks like the picture! To me, that was an amazing concept. Price does have something to do with it. It costs $2 to eat their for lunch. At a non-junk food place the cost is between 5 to 15 dollars. Also convenience is a big factor. Imagine you are taking your kid home from school. He’s very hungry and keeps pestering you to go to McDonalds. Or you could wait until you get home and see what’s in the fridge, and cook it. But the kid’s hungry now. It’s damn tempting to just pull into the McDonalds drive through and satisfy the kid. > [@](#): > > I wonder what would be left on the supermarket shelves if every “unhealthy” food was removed from them. How is McDonalds any more unethical than your average supermarket, or breakfast cereal manufacturer (and breakfast cereal manufacturers deliberately pitch their least nutritious products at children)? You have a good point. McDonalds is not more unethical than cereal manufacturers. I’m not saying we ban all unhealthy foods. But I would be more comfortable if they would stop advertising them to children. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964/137 "2002-11-27T23:11:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Avumede \* > **And that’s the most useless statement I’ve read in my life. Care to elaborate on what is so fucking dumb?** _Unethical to sell food that is bad for you, when you can sell food thats good for you???_ The idiocy of this statement just bludgeoned me upside the head. And by what standards to we come to the conclusioon that something is healthy or unhealthy? \*\* > [@](#): > > I think there are reasons why McDonalds is so popular. It’s obviously not because of the food.\*\* Why else would millions of **ADULTS** eat there everyday, the toys? And don’t tell me people only eat there because they can’t afford to eat elsewhere. \*\* > [@](#): > > A Taiwanese friend of mine recently said how the American food in Taiwan is much better than the American food in America. He said you can go in a McDonalds and order a burger, and it actually looks like the picture! To me, that was an amazing concept. \*\* I was in Taiwan a few years back, a Big Mac is a Big Mac. If there are any differences it’s because the ingredients may vary slightly but the recipe is the same. \*\* > [@](#): > > Price does have something to do with it. It costs $2 to eat their for lunch. At a non-junk food place the cost is between 5 to 15 dollars. \*\* 2 dollars my ass, try 4 or 5 which is, _gasp_, the same price as a sandwich from the deli, a “non junk food” establishment. \*\* > [@](#): > > Also convenience is a big factor. Imagine you are taking your kid home from school. He’s very hungry and keeps pestering you to go to McDonalds. Or you could wait until you get home and see what’s in the fridge, and cook it. But the kid’s hungry now. It’s damn tempting to just pull into the McDonalds drive through and satisfy the kid.\*\* A proper parent should do what’s right for their child, not what’s convenient. It wouldn’t be tempting for me, but I guess that’s because I have a spine. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964/138 "2002-11-27T23:34:05Z")
> [@](#): > > A proper parent should do what’s right for their child, not what’s convenient. Not to mention that “convenient for the parent” is a pretty long throw from “aggressively marketed as healthy for children”, which I thought is where we were going to show how eeeeevil McDonalds are. What’s happening here, they’re being sued for being so darn cheap, easy and tasty? Wow. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964/139 "2002-11-28T00:11:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Avumede \* > **Since none of the food you mentioned is bad for you (not at the level of junk food, at least), then it’s not unethical.** Nice weaseling there. Of course you’re worse off eating cookies instead of carrot sticks, or drinking 2% milk instead of skim milk. Exactly how “bad” does it have to be to be unethical? > [@](#): > > **If you agree that it’s unethical to sell poison to someone for consumption, then isn’t the ethicality of selling junk food just a matter of where you draw the line?** Absolutely not. Poison will kill you as part of a balanced diet. Hamburgers will not. > [@](#): > > **But since we know (and you have not disputed) that you could always eat healthier food than McDonalds, then logically there is no reason to eat at McDonalds more than once a week.** On the contrary, there are many reasons: Hamburgers taste better than tofu. I can get lunch at McDonald’s in 5 minutes and be back at work in 10 minutes. I can eat a hot meal without access to a kitchen, and without paying for any more ingredients than I’m going to eat. There are hundreds of things I could do to be more healthy, but as Billy Joel said, I’d rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints. What’s the point of having perfect health if you have to eat gravel and bean sprouts to keep it? > [@](#): > > **If you assume that you will be eating healthier food than McDonalds when you do not eat at McDonalds, logically you will be better off following this advice.** And if you assume that you’ll pick the winning numbers, buying lottery tickets is a sound investment. > [@](#): > > **Doesn’t this apply to corporations as well? Advertising to children, claiming your food as healthy, then saying “What, you did what we wanted you to do? What we told you to do? What an idiot! Hey, not our fault.” seems very slimy to me.** Straw man. McDonald’s has never encouraged kids to eat to excess, nor claimed that a diet consisting entirely of fast food is healthy. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964/140 "2002-11-28T03:33:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > \*\*I was in Taiwan a few years back, a Big Mac is a Big Mac. \*\* …but they call it “Le Big Mac”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-clown-forcefed-me-big-macs/137964.md?page=8)