# Help! The dog hates the baby! **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 1, 2008, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-dog-hates-the-baby/470596 "2008-11-01T17:27:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Neeps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a183cd/32.png) [@Neeps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neeps)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-dog-hates-the-baby/470596/41 "2008-11-01T22:02:33Z")
> [@5-HT](#): > > You’ll just have to get rid of the baby i guess. Last in, first out…hmmm, got a point… ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-dog-hates-the-baby/470596/42 "2008-11-01T22:19:58Z")
> [@Struan](#): > > My dad claims he was laughing so hard he dropped the camera onto the floor and only some photos remain. I don’t really believe him. Um…how come? ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-dog-hates-the-baby/470596/43 "2008-11-01T23:35:22Z")
> [@Mrs.Cake](#): > > Check out the article on using a muzzle while you are retraining your dog first. It’s probably the first and last step to take until he/she stops behaving agressively (the dog, not the baby). I’m going to give my support to this suggestion as well. It’s not cruel, but will prevent a terrible situation of dog bites baby. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-dog-hates-the-baby/470596/44 "2008-11-01T23:48:56Z")
Also, I think you people are being overly dramatic. Yes, dogs attack children. Dogs are animals. Domestic, often trained, animals. Still they can be unpredictable. Some of you seem to believe that children and dogs should never be in the company of one another. I can assure you the vast majority of the population disagrees with you and, yet, most children safely coexist with dogs. Imagine that. That being the case, you’ve made your points and obviously \*\*torie \*\*disagrees. If you’ve got nothing more helpful to add, lay off her already. ---
**Author:** ![FloatyGimpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/floatygimpy/32/7750_2.png) [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-dog-hates-the-baby/470596/45 "2008-11-01T23:49:10Z")
**torie** , I sent you a private message. I’m not sure if/how someone is notified when they are sent a pm. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-dog-hates-the-baby/470596/46 "2008-11-01T23:53:48Z")
torie, upon reflection and not being at work, my first reply was needlessly vehement. While I still believe the baby should be giving more priority than your OP evinces, I allowed my bad mood and personal history to cause me to be discourteous, which I should not have. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-dog-hates-the-baby/470596/47 "2008-11-02T00:25:30Z")
Let me put it this way. You have to prepare yourself for the possibility that Java cannot be trained to see Leo as part of her pack. It sounds so far you are taking steps to keep your baby safe. And it may very well be that once Java sees the baby walking on two legs rather than crawling around on all fours the light bulb will go on. You may find a dog trainer who can help Java adjust. But, maybe nothing works. Leo is four, walking talking peeing like a big boy, and Java still growls at him. Then you have only one decision to make…and that’s to find Java a new loving home. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-dog-hates-the-baby/470596/48 "2008-11-02T00:53:22Z")
What’s wrong with the traditonal approach? Growl/bark/snap at baby = loud NO! and a pop with a rolled up newspaper. Dog should get the message eventually. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-dog-hates-the-baby/470596/49 "2008-11-02T01:02:45Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > But, maybe nothing works. Leo is four, walking talking peeing like a big boy, and Java still growls at him. Then you have only one decision to make…and that’s to find Java a new loving home. Or take Leo to Nebraska, and drop him off at a hospital. There’s always a “Plan B”. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-dog-hates-the-baby/470596/50 "2008-11-02T01:08:28Z")
There are plenty of options open, the most sensible of which torie has already employed: keeping the dog entirely separate from the baby. _The child is in no danger_. She’s a new mom and has shown every indication of being a doting, protective one at that. She hasn’t been neglectful or careless. First off, take the dog to the vet. He’s eight years old; eliminate any possible health causes, i.e. failing eyesight, hearing loss, etc. Second, ask the vet for advice. A muzzle while in the presence of the baby sounds like a perfectly reasonable precaution right now but it might also help in the retraining process. I don’t know, but a qualified vet or dog trainer would. FWIW, torie, my sister’s dinky Lhasa Apso/min. poodle mix suddenly became growly and snappy in middle age. (He’d always been tempermental but he’s also spoiled rotten.) A dog trainer put him on a refresher course with his crate as well as a spray water bottle. He growled or snapped, he immediately got a faceful of water. He _hated_ it. He also stopped growling and snapping, as well as just retreating more often to his crate, his den, when overtired or overwhelmed. Most problems are solvable so why the rush to panic and condemn with this one? Nice way to beat up on a new mom: “get rid of your dog NOW or turn your baby over to foster care until the killer beast is tamed”. Just ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-dog-hates-the-baby/470596/51 "2008-11-02T02:50:46Z")
> [@TVeblen](#): > > Most problems are solvable so why the rush to panic and condemn with this one? > > Nice way to beat up on a new mom: “get rid of your dog NOW or turn your baby over to foster care until the killer beast is tamed”. Just ridiculous. I couldn’t agree more. What’s so bizarre is the relish some people take in telling her she has to rid of the dog, and to consider otherwise is irresponsible or foolish. It speaks well of her character that she is not so quick to abandon the dog she raised from a puppy, but believes she can find a way to make it work for everyone. Let her try some other alternatives and don’t judge her because she doesn’t do what you would have her do with her own family. I’m sure she understands her own situation better than we do and is handling it responsibly. That’ll teach her to open a thread asking for personal advice here, though. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-dog-hates-the-baby/470596/52 "2008-11-02T03:30:51Z")
> [@TVeblen](#): > > At times I really hate this board, and posters like you are usually the reason, Dangerosa. > > Feel really good about yourself now that you behaved like a raving bitch without the slightest provocation? Get your nasty little rush of internet self-righteousness? > > “Put your kid in foster care”, my ass. Nauseating, cheap, opportunistic bullshit. I have a friend who was attacked by a family dog and carries scars. This is not cheap opportunistic bullshit for me. If the dog is aggressive to the baby, the dog or the baby needs to be removed from the house. There are no other choices because it only takes ONE MINUTE for serious harm to be done. No doting parent can watch a baby 24 hours a day. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-dog-hates-the-baby/470596/53 "2008-11-02T03:34:15Z")
> [@torie](#): > > I have an eight year old Shih-Tzu. I also have a nine month old son who’s knee deep in the crawling and grabbing everything he sees stage. … > Now, it’s like Java thinks of Leo as another dog, which she has always hated. She’s behaving toward him the exact same way she’d behave towards another dog, … > > So what can I do? Rehoming her is the absolute last option, she’s getting old and we have had her since she was five weeks old. The whole family is very attached to this dog. There must be some kind of training technique or something that I am missing. Train the dog. 1. Don’t let her eat at will, and make her wait for your command before she eats. 2. Reinforce the basic sit, stay, here commands by reward. 3. In a confrontation (the dog growling or assuming an aggressive stance), **remove the dog** not the child. Pick her up, do not hold her close or re-assure her, and restrain her in another room. 4. Do not yell, or shoo her away; just act quickly, calmly, and mercilessly. If all else fails, rap her nose a few times. **mswas** is probably right, she is trying to re-assert her place in the pack order; you are the alpha, it’s your job to demonstrate she is below your son. Your dog does not hate your baby, she is trying to teach him manners, and respect. She’s just going about it the wrong way. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-dog-hates-the-baby/470596/54 "2008-11-02T03:41:07Z")
For those freaking out with the “OMG–child killing dog!!1!!1!!Eleventy-One1!!!1” hysteria, this a a little dog. It ain’t a pit bull or anything. If the scolding thing doesn’t work, just put a baby-gate in a doorway, imprison the dog in a bed room/bathroom behind the gate when the baby is on the floor. ---
**Author:** ![frankzafka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/49beb7/32.png) [@frankzafka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/frankzafka)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-dog-hates-the-baby/470596/55 "2008-11-02T03:45:43Z")
I love this shit. Baby V. Canine and there is actual weighing of what to do. There should be no hesitation as to what should be done. None. This kid will definitely grow up to be a cat person. ---
**Author:** ![frankzafka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/49beb7/32.png) [@frankzafka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/frankzafka)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-dog-hates-the-baby/470596/56 "2008-11-02T03:48:00Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > For those freaking out with the “OMG–child killing dog!!1!!1!!Eleventy-One1!!!1” hysteria, this a a little dog. It ain’t a pit bull or anything. If the scolding thing doesn’t work, just put a baby-gate in a doorway, imprison the dog in a bed room/bathroom behind the gate when the baby is on the floor. Then in this vein just let the kid play in the road. Or near a swimming pool. If it is just a “little dog” let 'em play together. Hysteria my arse. This is a child we’re speaking about. ---
**Author:** ![Mrs.Cake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2acd7d/32.png) [@Mrs.Cake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mrs.Cake)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-dog-hates-the-baby/470596/57 "2008-11-02T04:24:36Z")
Oh for god’s sake - it’s a dog the size of an overgrown hamster and muzzles are a perfectly humane and responsible way to train a dog. Killing or dumping the dog is hardly necessary or desirable. Some of you people get hysterical over the silliest things. It’s not like she’s leaving the baby alone with the dingos. Get some perspective. OMG - What it she has a second kid some day and there are jealousy problems? Does she get rid of the agressive toddler or take some time to train it? (for the record, because I know someone will make an issue out of it, this being a message board, that last part was hyperbole) ---
**Author:** ![torie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@torie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/torie)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-dog-hates-the-baby/470596/58 "2008-11-02T04:36:25Z")
> [@frankzafka](#): > > Then in this vein just let the kid play in the road. Or near a swimming pool. If it is just a “little dog” let 'em play together. I don’t let them play together because I know that even a little dog can cause emotional trauma, even if she cannot hurt him. I also know there is always that one little chance that something could happen. That’s why from now on, the dog only roams the house at night, when Leo is asleep. Otherwise, Leo will be on the floor and she is in Leo’s former playard, which is now Java’s playard. Even if I do leave the room, even for a second, she cannot get to him. I am taking the same precautions that I would take with a swimming pool, only supervised access. I think that a lot of people are projecting their own negative experiences on my situation and refusing to listen to me. I will take her out for an hour at a time and do what I was doing before, supervising their time together, but this time she gets treats for being nice, and strong punishment for being rude. I think this approach will keep her from associating the baby only with punishment, which may make her more hostile. I am aware that maybe Java has gotten too old and cantankerous to be around children at all. We will give it a try, if she isn’t coming around by the time Leo is 15 months or so, and behaving more human, I do have the option of giving her to my ex-stepdad, who loves her and would take good care of her. I also am hearing those suggesting a muzzle. That may be a good option until she comes around a little. We will look into them. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-dog-hates-the-baby/470596/59 "2008-11-02T04:41:15Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Every year babies are killed by dogs under similar circumstances. I have a friend who was maimed by a dog as a small child. If you are going to fart around with a behaviorist, put your kid in foster care while you retrain your dog. Won’t somebody think of the children?! :rolleyes: The above comment is truly despicable, and if I was **torie** I’d pit you pronto. **Torie** is being a loving mother while also being a responsible pet owner. She has made every precaution for the child’s safety, but some people just aren’t satisfied and feel like they are justified in writing truly nasty comments. I swear.. .anything to do with children or pets on this board is doomed to be either painfully cute or atrociously trainwreckish. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-dog-hates-the-baby/470596/60 "2008-11-02T04:42:45Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > I couldn’t agree more. What’s so bizarre is the relish some people take in telling her she has to rid of the dog, and to consider otherwise is irresponsible or foolish. It speaks well of her character that she is not so quick to abandon the dog she raised from a puppy, but believes she can find a way to make it work for everyone. Let her try some other alternatives and don’t judge her because she doesn’t do what you would have her do with her own family. I’m sure she understands her own situation better than we do and is handling it responsibly. That’ll teach her to open a thread asking for personal advice here, though. +1. Asking for personal advice on this board is a harrowing experience to say the least. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-dog-hates-the-baby/470596.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-the-dog-hates-the-baby/470596.md?page=4)