# Help us choose a hockey team to root for **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 2, 2011, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-us-choose-a-hockey-team-to-root-for/566102 "2011-01-02T02:07:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![soulmurk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@soulmurk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/soulmurk)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-us-choose-a-hockey-team-to-root-for/566102/41 "2011-01-04T15:32:31Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Uh huh. Hey, have your hate-on for Crosby. I don’t care. I don’t hate him. I don’t like him, but I don’t hate him. I do hate all the hype and promotion he gets, and I do hate the preferential treatment he gets, but I’ve got nothing against the guy as a person. When someone blindly defends him because they’re a fan of his and his team, I call BS on it. > [@](#): > > But off the top of my head, in addition to thinking of a lot of other instances in which most players dive or try to draw penalties like I said, I can think of many times that Crosby is hooked, held, interfered with or roughed that aren’t called. Just look at the Winter Classic, for instance, when he was blind-sided while skating in the neutral zone without the puck. No call there. Not the issue at hand. And even if it were, two wrongs don’t make a right. In fact, as a superstar icon who embraced his role as the face of the sport and endorsing companies, it’s his duty to _not_ sink to such behavior, but to instead show good sportsmanship and respect for the game and its rules regardless of how many other guys are doing it. As to his not getting calls, [he draws 1.8 penalties per game](http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?s=46&f1=2010_s&f2=5v5&f5=PIT&c=0+1+3+5+41+42+43+44+45+46#) (while only taking 0.7), second best on his team behind only Eric Tangradi. > [@](#): > > But as I said, it’s no skin off my nose what you think of Crosby. I am a Pens fan, and I’m quite content with his play and his ringing up the scoreboard. Funny, then, that you’d defend him, since it doesn’t matter to you. I’ve read some of your posts on the Steelers and know that you’re the worst kind of sports fan, and this has become entirely off-target from the OP, so we’ll just call this an unresolvable disagreement. ETA: > [@](#): > > I’d be surprised if it didn’t make fans of other teams pissy. I’d be surprised if you were so willing to go to bat for him if he didn’t play on your favored team. I bet you think Matt Cooke and James Harrison aren’t dirty either and that the Flyers are the dirtiest team in the world and Ovechkin is overrated. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-us-choose-a-hockey-team-to-root-for/566102/42 "2011-01-04T15:59:52Z")
> [@soulmurk](#): > > In fact, as a superstar icon who embraced his role as the face of the sport and endorsing companies, it’s his duty to _not_ sink to such behavior, but to instead show good sportsmanship and respect for the game and its rules regardless of how many other guys are doing it. :rolleyes: He’s a hockey player, and a good one. That’s his duty. > [@](#): > > As to his not getting calls, [he draws 1.8 penalties per game](http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?s=46&f1=2010_s&f2=5v5&f5=PIT&c=0+1+3+5+41+42+43+44+45+46#) (while only taking 0.7), second best on his team behind only Eric Tangradi. And according to your source, Ovechkin draws 1.7, Stamkos 1.7, and St. Louis 1.8, so it looks like your argument is complete bunk. If he’s diving all the time, he’s not getting calls any more frequently than other players of similar talent. And among all players with 10 or more games played, he ranks 29th in terms of penalties drawn. Hardly a standout in that category, wouldn’t you say? > [@](#): > > Funny, then, that you’d defend him, since it doesn’t matter to you. I find debunking nonsense to be particularly compelling for me. > [@](#): > > I’ve read some of your posts on the Steelers and know that you’re the worst kind of sports fan, and this has become entirely off-target from the OP, so we’ll just call this an unresolvable disagreement. No, I think it’s quite resolved, thanks to your own source. > [@](#): > > ETA: > > I’d be surprised if you were so willing to go to bat for him if he didn’t play on your favored team. I bet you think Matt Cooke and James Harrison aren’t dirty either and that the Flyers are the dirtiest team in the world and Ovechkin is overrated. I think that Matt Cooke is kind of dirty - especially with the elbow shot to Marc Savard. I don’t think that James Harrison is a dirty player at all. I think the Flyers are goons - do you justify that douche Hartnell biting Letang’s finger? I do think that Ovechkin is overrated - he’s got an awesome shot, but he doesn’t work nearly as well or as hard as a team player as Crosby does, and it’s evident in the absence of hardware that he owns. ---
**Author:** ![tim-n-va](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim-n-va/32/3001_2.png) [@tim-n-va](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim-n-va)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-us-choose-a-hockey-team-to-root-for/566102/43 "2011-01-04T16:01:37Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Uh huh. Hey, have your hate-on for Crosby. I don’t care. But off the top of my head, in addition to thinking of a lot of other instances in which most players dive or try to draw penalties like I said, I can think of many times that Crosby is hooked, held, interfered with or roughed that aren’t called. Just look at the Winter Classic, for instance, when he was blind-sided while skating in the neutral zone without the puck. No call there. > > But as I said, it’s no skin off my nose what you think of Crosby. I am a Pens fan, and I’m quite content with his play and his ringing up the scoreboard. I’d be surprised if it didn’t make fans of other teams pissy. Find a clip of the Steckel-Crosby collision with an angle from the end and you’ll see why there was no call. The direction of play reverses, Steckel is heading up ice following the play. Crosby circles to follow the play while looking up ice and goes head first into Steckel’s shoulder. If anything he should have been called for interference. The reality is that occasionally people get hurt in hockey when all involved are playing by the rules. You can see the clip at the Washington Post but registration might be requried: [http://voices.washingtonpost.com/capitalsinsider/winter-classic/david-steckel-says-collision-w.html](http://voices.washingtonpost.com/capitalsinsider/winter-classic/david-steckel-says-collision-w.html) ---
**Author:** ![soulmurk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@soulmurk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/soulmurk)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-us-choose-a-hockey-team-to-root-for/566102/44 "2011-01-04T16:37:26Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > :rolleyes: He’s a hockey player, and a good one. That’s his duty. His duty is to win. If you find cheating or bending rules to be acceptable toward that end, then we have very different definitions of what defines acceptable behavior from an athlete. > [@](#): > > And according to your source, Ovechkin draws 1.7, Stamkos 1.7, and St. Louis 1.8, so it looks like your argument is complete bunk. Not at all. There are rink biases and ref biases and all sorts of other in-game influences that make cross-team comparisons in these types of situations unfair and inaccurate. The safest method is to stick to comparing guys who play under the same conditions, i.e., their teammates. > [@](#): > > If he’s diving all the time, he’s not getting calls any more frequently than other players of similar talent. Not at all what I said, but nice try. You’re mixing two different topics as you see fit. The initial discussion was about whether he dove or not… and video evidence shows that he does. Then you claimed that he doesn’t get calls, which his drawn penalties clearly show that he does… the 2nd most on his team. How that relates to other players on other teams is immaterial… the point is, you said he doesn’t get the calls and were wrong. > [@](#): > > And among all players with 10 or more games played, he ranks 29th in terms of penalties drawn. Hardly a standout in that category, wouldn’t you say? I wasn’t arguing that it was. See above. > [@](#): > > I find debunking nonsense to be particularly compelling for me. Must make for some hilariously ironic internal monologues… > [@](#): > > No, I think it’s quite resolved, thanks to your own source.I think that Matt Cooke is kind of dirty - especially with the elbow shot to Marc Savard. I don’t think that James Harrison is a dirty player at all. I think the Flyers are goons - do you justify that douche Hartnell biting Letang’s finger? I do think that Ovechkin is overrated - he’s got an awesome shot, but he doesn’t work nearly as well or as hard as a team player as Crosby does You’re biased by your fandom and it clouds your judgment. Thanks for making my point. > [@](#): > > and it’s evident in the absence of hardware that he owns. Ah, yes. The infamous “Montreal Canadiens Fan Argument for Greatness” ™ adopted by douchy fans with nothing but blind homerism everywhere, “we’ve got more trophies, therefore we’re better than you in every way.” Whatever helps you maintain your grossly overdeveloped sense of entitlement and feelings of superiority. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-us-choose-a-hockey-team-to-root-for/566102/45 "2011-01-04T16:49:25Z")
Clearly you are quite emotional about this issue, **soulmurk**. Perhaps it’s best to step back from the computer and compose yourself? ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-us-choose-a-hockey-team-to-root-for/566102/46 "2011-01-04T16:52:58Z")
I dunno, I kinda like calling him “Cindy” Crosby. ---
**Author:** ![soulmurk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@soulmurk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/soulmurk)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-us-choose-a-hockey-team-to-root-for/566102/47 "2011-01-04T17:53:37Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Clearly you are quite emotional about this issue, **soulmurk**. Perhaps it’s best to step back from the computer and compose yourself? Not at all. I, too, am compelled to debunk nonsense. It’s why I joined this board, after all. This discussion (and any sports discussion, really… but especially around such polarizing figures as Crosby) always comes down to three trains of thought: the homer fan who defends him and anything he does as if it were a personal attack, and either refuses to see evidence as proof enough or otherwise has an excuse for it; the flip side Crosby-hater who condemns everything about him and refuses to even admit that he’s actually a really good player; and the neutral party who can admit he’s good, but also acknowledges that he engages is questionable, if not downright immature, behavior at times. You, sir, are of the first sort, and those are the most annoying of sports fans. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-us-choose-a-hockey-team-to-root-for/566102/48 "2011-01-04T18:05:37Z")
> [@soulmurk](#): > > Not at all. I, too, am compelled to debunk nonsense. It’s why I joined this board, after all. > > This discussion (and any sports discussion, really… but especially around such polarizing figures as Crosby) always comes down to three trains of thought: the homer fan who defends him and anything he does as if it were a personal attack, and either refuses to see evidence as proof enough or otherwise has an excuse for it; the flip side Crosby-hater who condemns everything about him and refuses to even admit that he’s actually a really good player; and the neutral party who can admit he’s good, but also acknowledges that he engages is questionable, if not downright immature, behavior at times. > > You, sir, are of the first sort, and those are the most annoying of sports fans. Your overemotional involvement on the topic and need to rely on personal attacks suggests to me that you have miscategorized yourself. Nevertheless, good luck in all your future endeavors. ---
**Author:** ![soulmurk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@soulmurk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/soulmurk)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-us-choose-a-hockey-team-to-root-for/566102/49 "2011-01-04T18:26:52Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Your overemotional involvement on the topic and need to rely on personal attacks suggests to me that you have miscategorized yourself. You could just admit you were wrong, but I get it. It’s much easier to pass it off as my being “too emotionally involved.” I take umbrage with the comment about personal attacks, though. I disputed your contentions and called you out for being a homer. You have not (cannot?) counter my arguments and so resort to focusing on the latter, which is kind of funny when one considers the passive-aggressive and dismissive tone to your posts. > [@](#): > > Nevertheless, good luck in all your future endeavors. Thanks… next up: arguing with homers that their fandom interferes with their ability to properly judge things. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-us-choose-a-hockey-team-to-root-for/566102/50 "2011-01-04T18:56:49Z")
> [@soulmurk](#): > > You could just admit you were wrong, but I get it. It’s much easier to pass it off as my being “too emotionally involved.” The stats don’t lie, and they were your stats to begin with. They just didn’t work out like you thought they would. > [@](#): > > I take umbrage with the comment about personal attacks, though. Take all the umbrage you like. But here’s where you couldn’t help but make the argument personal: > [@](#): > > I’ve read some of your posts on the Steelers and know that **you’re the worst kind of sports fan,** > [@](#): > > Ah, yes. The infamous “Montreal Canadiens Fan Argument for Greatness” ™ **adopted by douchy fans with nothing but blind homerism everywhere** , “we’ve got more trophies, therefore we’re better than you in every way.” **Whatever helps you maintain your grossly overdeveloped sense of entitlement and feelings of superiority.** Clearly you are calling me the worst kind of sports fan and calling me a “douchy” fan with nothing but blind homerism. I’m not sure what these could be other than attacks about me rather than about the argument at hand. Regardless, they speak most clearly to the fact that Sidney Crosby’s qualities are a very emotional subject for you; much more than they are for me, in fact. ---
**Author:** ![soulmurk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@soulmurk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/soulmurk)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-us-choose-a-hockey-team-to-root-for/566102/51 "2011-01-04T19:23:48Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > The stats don’t lie, and they were your stats to begin with. They just didn’t work out like you thought they would. You stated, “..I can think of many times that Crosby is hooked, held, interfered with or roughed that aren’t called,” as a counter to my saying he was a coddled superstar. The stats show that he draws the 2nd most penalties on his team. That absolutely backs up my point that your statement is nothing but confirmation bias. That they’re similar to other players doesn’t dispute that he draws penalties; if anything, it helps prove it as the other players you cite are also superstars (though a fading one, in the case of St. Louis). > [@](#): > > Clearly you are calling me the worst kind of sports fan and calling me a “douchy” fan with nothing but blind homerism. Blind homer fanboys who defend all things related to their teams no matter what; rely on their false interpretations of events rather than actual evidence; act like sore-winners and even sorer losers; and ham-handedly bash anyone of a difference in opinion about something with how much better their team is because they have more trophies **are** the worst kind of fan. If the shoe fits, wear it. > [@](#): > > I’m not sure what these could be other than attacks about me rather than about the argument at hand. They’re simple observations about the people who rely on ignorant arguments. It just so happens that you’ve been using those exact same arguments. Draw what conclusions you will from that. > [@](#): > > Regardless, they speak most clearly to the fact that Sidney Crosby’s qualities are a very emotional subject for you Nope. Sidney Crosby’s qualities don’t mean bubkus to me. People saying he’s not what he is bothers me, but I wouldn’t say it’s a “very emotional subject” for me any more than people saying untrue things about anything are. > [@](#): > > much more than they are for me, in fact. Clearly. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-us-choose-a-hockey-team-to-root-for/566102/52 "2011-01-04T21:45:50Z")
Jesus, **soulmark** , did Sidney push you down on the playground and steal your lunch money everyday? ---
**Author:** ![Mince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mince)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-us-choose-a-hockey-team-to-root-for/566102/53 "2011-01-04T21:54:46Z")
Can a mod re-title the thread to “ **I was looking for a hockey team to root for, but now that I’ve found one, please feel free to use the rest of my thread to engage in a ridiculous, juvenile whinefest about Sidney Crosby**.”? ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-us-choose-a-hockey-team-to-root-for/566102/54 "2011-01-04T22:20:24Z")
But at least we all agree that the Buffalo Sabres are a bunch of whiny divers. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-us-choose-a-hockey-team-to-root-for/566102/55 "2011-01-05T01:17:03Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I do think that Ovechkin is overrated - he’s got an awesome shot, but he doesn’t work nearly as well or as hard as a team player as Crosby does, and it’s evident in the absence of hardware that he owns. I wouldn’t say so. The Pens have simply had a stronger team. Washington has zero defense, a streaky goalie core, and their offense relies entirely on the “give Ovie the puck” approach. Even at their lowest, the Pens can roll at least two if not three solid lines a night and Fleury is good enough to start for most teams in the NHL. Saying that the Caps don’t have a puck because Ovie isn’t good enough is just wrong. Crosby didn’t win the cup for the Pens by himself. Hell, even Gretzky couldn’t win a cup all by himself. > [@soulmurk](#): > > …and that the Flyers are the dirtiest team in the world… If they aren’t, it’s dead heat between them and Anaheim. Any team with Pronger on it is usually a lock for the title. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-us-choose-a-hockey-team-to-root-for/566102/56 "2011-01-05T02:55:42Z")
Or, as a macro I once found said, “There is no I in team, but there is one in Ovechkin.” 😉 To the OP – I wouldn’t go out right away and buy a jersey – you might want to go with a “[shersey](http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4428761&cp=2367438.2367821.3187207.3176609)” for now. (The jerseys are EXPENSIVE. I only just got one – Kris Letang – for Christmas. I also have a Crosby shersey) Although I REALLY want to get a [vintage Mario Lemieux jersey](http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4452173&cp=2367438.2367821.3187207.3176618) next. (I was so disappointed that the alumni game wasn’t broadcast) ---
**Author:** ![tim-n-va](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim-n-va/32/3001_2.png) [@tim-n-va](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim-n-va)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-us-choose-a-hockey-team-to-root-for/566102/57 "2011-01-05T13:04:58Z")
Full disclosure: I’m a Caps fan and season ticket holder. Final game of the regular season. Ovie is within a goal or two of the scoring title with other games being played. Mike Green had 19 for the season and Alex Semin had 39. Ovie started the game setting up Semin so he got to 40 and spent the rest of the game setting up Green to try to get him to 20. Ovie has his flaws but anyone who thinks he isn’t a team player is just misinformed. He celebrates just as much when a teammate scores as when he does. ---
**Author:** ![soulmurk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@soulmurk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/soulmurk)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-us-choose-a-hockey-team-to-root-for/566102/58 "2011-01-05T13:30:19Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Jesus, **soulmark** , did Sidney push you down on the playground and steal your lunch money everyday? Not really sure why the Crosby apologists believe I have something against the guy. I’ve stated several times that I think he’s a great player and I’ve given him all the credit he deserves… it’s just a pet peeve of mine when people blindly defend someone they admire (be it an athlete or a musician or whatever) because their confirmation bias doesn’t permit them to see that the person isn’t perfect. > [@](#): > > Or, as a macro I once found said, “There is no I in team, but there is one in Ovechkin.” Jesus, **Guinastasia** , did Ovechkin push you down on the playground and steal your lunch money every day? ---
**Author:** ![tim-n-va](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim-n-va/32/3001_2.png) [@tim-n-va](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim-n-va)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-us-choose-a-hockey-team-to-root-for/566102/59 "2011-01-05T14:10:51Z")
> [@](#): > > (I was so disappointed that the alumni game wasn’t broadcast) If you can get the NHL network, they are rebroadcasting it a couple of times this week. [NHL Network Schedule](http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=58058) ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-us-choose-a-hockey-team-to-root-for/566102/60 "2011-01-05T16:56:40Z")
> [@soulmurk](#): > > Not really sure why the Crosby apologists believe I have something against the guy. I’ve stated several times that I think he’s a great player and I’ve given him all the credit he deserves… it’s just a pet peeve of mine when people blindly defend someone they admire (be it an athlete or a musician or whatever) because their confirmation bias doesn’t permit them to see that the person isn’t perfect. You don’t seem to allow for the possibility that the one with biased perceptions regarding Crosby might be yourself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-us-choose-a-hockey-team-to-root-for/566102.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-us-choose-a-hockey-team-to-root-for/566102.md?page=4)