# Help! What is karbonat natron?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-what-is-karbonat-natron/412526
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [July 20, 2007, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-what-is-karbonat-natron/412526 "2007-07-20T11:54:33Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Heloise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heloise)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2007, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-what-is-karbonat-natron/412526/1 "2007-07-20T11:54:33Z")
I bought it in a Turkish store while trying to find baking soda. I’m not sure that’s what it is, or if I can use it for baking. I know that I can use it for cleaning, about the same way as baking soda, but I don’t want to screw up food trying to use it.
The translation I got doing wiki and a word search didn’t help much, either.
Anyone know?
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### Author:  [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2007, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-what-is-karbonat-natron/412526/2 "2007-07-20T11:57:39Z")
Sodium carbonate (washing soda). _Natron_ is sodium. No use to bake with - sodium _bi_carbonate (formally “sodium hydrogen carbonate”) has an excess of CO[sub]2[/sub] which will make things rise.
I once wrote to the paper 'cos I’d read in there of this marvellous homeopathic remedy called _natrum muriaticum_. “Muriatic acid” is an antique name for hydrochloric acid, so the wonder-drug was… salt. :rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@Heloise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heloise)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2007, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-what-is-karbonat-natron/412526/3 "2007-07-20T12:02:58Z")
Dammit! I found this in the spice section, too. So, if I’m trying to use it for cookies, it won’t work and it will taste nasty?
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### Author:  [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2007, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-what-is-karbonat-natron/412526/4 "2007-07-20T12:09:12Z")
I’d guess so. But in case my translation is not spot-on, a small nibble from a test batch wouldn’t hurt you; sodium carbonate can be used as a food additive, for instance to make ramen noodles take up water more easily. There aren’t too many simple tests I can think of to tell the two apart; both would fizz when dissolved and doused in lemon juice, for instance.
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### Author:  [@Sock\_of\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sock_of_Doom)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2007, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-what-is-karbonat-natron/412526/5 "2007-07-20T12:42:12Z")
[QUOTE=Malacandra]
There aren’t too many simple tests I can think of to tell the two apart; both would fizz when dissolved and doused in lemon juice, for instance.
[/QUOTE]
If you happen to have a bit of pH paper around, it could probably help you. A quick test of my saturated solutions of both reveal that the pH should be roughly 10 and 14 for sodium bicarb and carbonate, respectively. The carbonate is much more basic than the bicarbonate.
Better living through chemistry…or something.
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### Author:  [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2007, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-what-is-karbonat-natron/412526/6 "2007-07-20T12:51:10Z")
Well, yes, and I suppose you could titrate a solution if you happened to have a pipette, a burette and some decimolar sulphuric acid handy, but it’s amazing how often these simple pieces of equipment are missing from the suburban kitchen. 😃
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### Author:  [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2007, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-what-is-karbonat-natron/412526/7 "2007-07-20T13:05:35Z")
[QUOTE=Malacandra]
Sodium carbonate (washing soda). _Natron_ is sodium. No use to bake with - sodium _bi_carbonate (formally “sodium hydrogen carbonate”) has an excess of CO[sub]2[/sub] which will make things rise.
I once wrote to the paper 'cos I’d read in there of this marvellous homeopathic remedy called _natrum muriaticum_. “Muriatic acid” is an antique name for hydrochloric acid, so the wonder-drug was… salt. :rolleyes:
[/QUOTE]
So if “karbonat” is carbonate, what’s bicarbonate?
And I love antique names for chemicals (even if I can’t remember them most of the time), but boy is that scummy. Not surprising from a homeopath, but scummy all the same.
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### Author:  [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2007, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-what-is-karbonat-natron/412526/8 "2007-07-20T13:20:16Z")
What was it the “remedy” for? Low blood pressure? Soft arteries? :dubious:
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### Author:  [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2007, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-what-is-karbonat-natron/412526/9 "2007-07-20T13:45:14Z")
[QUOTE=Beware of Doug]
What was it the “remedy” for? Low blood pressure? Soft arteries? :dubious:
[/QUOTE]
Considering it was a homeopathic “remedy”, it was probably something like a milligram of salt in a kilogram of water, to give a solution of 17 micromolar or, if you want, 1 ppm. (Personally, I think in terms of molarities.)
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### Author:  [@Telperien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperien)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2007, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-what-is-karbonat-natron/412526/10 "2007-07-20T13:48:07Z")
[QUOTE=Malacandra]
Well, yes, and I suppose you could titrate a solution if you happened to have a pipette, a burette and some decimolar sulphuric acid handy, but it’s amazing how often these simple pieces of equipment are missing from the suburban kitchen. 😃
[/QUOTE]
Well, she is a Doper. She might have them, you never know.
And here I was thinking **Heloise** was going to mummify someone. That would have been cool.
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### Author:  [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2007, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-what-is-karbonat-natron/412526/11 "2007-07-20T13:49:08Z")
[QUOTE=asterion]
So if “karbonat” is carbonate, what’s bicarbonate?
[/quote]
Not sure. As Wikipedia says:
> [@Wikipedia](#):
>
> the salt has many other names including sodium hydrogencarbonate, sodium bicarb, baking soda, bread soda, cooking soda, bicarb soda, saleratus or bicarbonate of soda
so I’d be looking for something similar.
> [@asterion](#):
>
> And I love antique names for chemicals (even if I can’t remember them most of the time), but boy is that scummy. Not surprising from a homeopath, but scummy all the same.
Yup. If they’re going to prescribe table salt as a remedy (and why not?), what need to dress it up with an alchemical name? :rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@Heloise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heloise)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2007, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-what-is-karbonat-natron/412526/12 "2007-07-20T16:00:36Z")
Well, baking soda is hard to find here. I have to search around and the only place I’ve found it so far is at a Chinese supermarket not that close to here. It’s a pain.
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### Author:  [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2007, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-what-is-karbonat-natron/412526/13 "2007-07-20T16:08:33Z")
[QUOTE=Malacandra]
If they’re going to prescribe table salt as a remedy (and why not?), what need to dress it up with an alchemical name? :rolleyes:
[/QUOTE]
Add one part mumbo to one part jumbo, stir in the oil of one medium-size snake, and boosh until thoroughly wah.
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### Author:  [@Sattua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sattua)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2007, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-what-is-karbonat-natron/412526/14 "2007-07-20T16:12:29Z")
Everyone should have pH paper at home. It’s one of the great joys in life.
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### Author:  [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2007, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-what-is-karbonat-natron/412526/15 "2007-07-20T17:04:16Z")
Accordingg to my sister, who claims to have the answer for everything, it’s probably baking soda. She’s lived in Turkey. She did suggest if you don’t have pH paper or a pipette, a burette and some decimolar sulphuric acid handy, you could put it in vinegar adn see if you get a volcano.
StG
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### Author:  [@Sock\_of\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sock_of_Doom)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2007, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-what-is-karbonat-natron/412526/16 "2007-07-20T18:07:58Z")
[QUOTE=StGermain]
Accordingg to my sister, who claims to have the answer for everything, it’s probably baking soda. She’s lived in Turkey. She did suggest if you don’t have pH paper or a pipette, a burette and some decimolar sulphuric acid handy, you could put it in vinegar adn see if you get a volcano.
StG
[/QUOTE]
The problem is both sodium carbonate and bicarbonate will give you a volcano.
Now I’ve got to think of a way one can tell the difference without “fancy equipment.”
Hmm…
If you have access to some red cabbage, you can use it as an [indicator](http://chemistry.about.com/library/weekly/aa012803a.htm).
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### Author:  [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2007, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-what-is-karbonat-natron/412526/17 "2007-07-20T21:39:38Z")
Is this the same “natron” used in the Egyptian mummification process?
If so, is it used in canning, & putting up preserves? 😃
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### Author:  [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2007, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-what-is-karbonat-natron/412526/18 "2007-07-20T22:28:09Z")
Do the obvious: take a little flour, add a some water and oil, a little salt and some of your mystery substance. Knead it into a biscuit and bake it. If it comes out fluffy and tasty, it’s baking soda. If not, you’ve got something else.
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### Author:  [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2007, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-what-is-karbonat-natron/412526/19 "2007-07-20T23:08:35Z")
Gosh, all this stuff from post #4 getting reiterated! 😃
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### Author:  [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2007, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-what-is-karbonat-natron/412526/20 "2007-07-21T01:16:13Z")
[QUOTE=Malacandra]
Gosh, all this stuff from post #4 getting reiterated! 😃
[/QUOTE]
But no answers to Post # 17. :dubious:
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