# Help with a cryptic crossword **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 20, 2003, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-a-cryptic-crossword/208430 "2003-10-20T00:38:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-a-cryptic-crossword/208430/1 "2003-10-20T00:38:51Z")
There is one last clue I’ve been puzzling over for a long time. I think it must be some obscure word. It’s driving me nuts! Anyway… The clue is simply “Piped music”. Seven letters. I have four of the letters filled in: P\_B\_O\_H The P is from exPire - “Run out of breath (6)” The B is from orBital - “Not much spoken about as space travel is (7)” The O is from trOut - “The first defeat for a swimmer (5)” The H is from sHortstory - “An account that’s hardly overdrawn (5,5,)” ---
**Author:** ![Jabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@Jabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jabba)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-a-cryptic-crossword/208430/2 "2003-10-20T00:44:59Z")
pibroch: “the classical music of the bagpipe” ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-a-cryptic-crossword/208430/3 "2003-10-20T00:45:13Z")
pibroch ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-a-cryptic-crossword/208430/4 "2003-10-20T00:46:32Z")
(A series of variations on a martial theme or traditional dirge for the highland bagpipes.) darn. I wasn’t first. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-a-cryptic-crossword/208430/5 "2003-10-20T00:48:24Z")
Some links to help you in future… [crossword helper](http://casr.adelaide.edu.au/craig/wow.html) [dictionary.com](http://casr.adelaide.edu.au/craig/wow.html) ---
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-a-cryptic-crossword/208430/6 "2003-10-20T00:58:47Z")
Groan, I knew it was going to be something like that. Boy you guys are fast! Thanks very much, now I can sleep tonight. But… what kind of word is PIBROCH, and how does this qualify as a cryptic clue? I thought there had to be a double meaning or something? ---
**Author:** ![Jabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@Jabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jabba)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-a-cryptic-crossword/208430/7 "2003-10-20T01:02:53Z")
‘Pibroch’ is a Gaelic word, and it’s a pun on ‘piped music’. Puns are perfectly acceptable in cryptic crosswords. ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-a-cryptic-crossword/208430/8 "2003-10-20T15:16:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jabba \* > \*\*‘Pibroch’ is a Gaelic word, and it’s a pun on ‘piped music’. Puns are perfectly acceptable in cryptic crosswords. \*\* I still don’t get it. Pibroch is pronounced PEE-brokch. (Rhymes with loch as in Loch Ness Monster). I can see the ‘roch’ as a pun for ‘rock’ from the clue ‘music.’ How does ‘pib’ (PEEB) be a pun for ‘piped’? Peace. ---
**Author:** ![Jabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@Jabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jabba)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-a-cryptic-crossword/208430/9 "2003-10-20T15:23:10Z")
Piped music is continuous background music, such as is played in restaurants and supermarkets. Here it is being used punningly as ‘music played on pipes’, in this case bagpipes. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-a-cryptic-crossword/208430/10 "2003-10-20T16:01:15Z")
I gather this is a British-style cryptic? The rules for cluing in American puzzles are more rigid – the clue must contain a definition _and_ a wordplay portion, which are normally distinct from one another – and that clue definitely wouldn’t fly over here. ---
**Author:** ![Jabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@Jabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jabba)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-a-cryptic-crossword/208430/11 "2003-10-20T16:04:25Z")
British clues usually follow the same pattern. Some leeway is given in punning clues, however ( and I agree that is not a particularly good clue). ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-a-cryptic-crossword/208430/12 "2003-10-20T16:10:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jabba \* > \*\*Piped music is continuous background music, such as is played in restaurants and supermarkets. Here it is being used punningly as ‘music played on pipes’, in this case bagpipes. \*\* ## Ah, I get it now. Thanks. However, IMO, that’s a bad cryptic clue. You’d find that kind of word play in regular crossword puzzles. Cryptic clues tend to be more… cryptic. Backing up, a truck sounds loud music overwhelming the music from the bagpipers’ float. (7) Peace. Not to mention that ‘pibroch’ is pretty obscure… ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-a-cryptic-crossword/208430/13 "2003-10-20T19:07:48Z")
The OP’s clue is a (not very good) example of what cryptic crossword aficionados would call a Cryptic Definition, seemingly frowned upon by US crossword editors but common in British puzzles. Rather than the usual definition + wordplay structure, in CDs the entire clue can be read in two ways, the more obvious reading hopefully being the wrong one. Sometimes this is achieved by means of a pun, but often not. Examples: Ill-gotten gains (4, 3) It’s said to raise a smile (6) Flower power (16) Modern art (3) and an old chestnut: A jammed cylinder (5,4) ---
**Author:** ![scm1001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@scm1001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scm1001)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-a-cryptic-crossword/208430/14 "2003-10-21T11:40:36Z")
and the answers usram? don’t leave us hanging! ---
**Author:** ![hammos1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ba8739/32.png) [@hammos1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hammos1)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-a-cryptic-crossword/208430/15 "2003-10-21T12:28:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Usram \* > \*\* > Ill-gotten gains (4, 3) > It’s said to raise a smile (6) > Flower power (16) > Modern art (3) > > and an old chestnut: > A jammed cylinder (5,4) \*\* Respectively: Sick Pay Cheese Hydroelectricity (flower used punningly to mean ‘something that flows’ e.g. a river) ??? (I’ll get back to you on this one) Cream Cake ---
**Author:** ![hammos1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ba8739/32.png) [@hammos1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hammos1)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-a-cryptic-crossword/208430/16 "2003-10-21T12:31:03Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Usram \* > \*\* > Modern art (3)_\* Aha… are ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-a-cryptic-crossword/208430/17 "2003-10-21T12:43:26Z")
The only one of those that is moderately funny is “modern art.” ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-a-cryptic-crossword/208430/18 "2003-10-21T13:33:10Z")
“A jammed cylinder” should be Swiss Roll, because this is cylindrical by definition, whereas not all cream cakes are. I still like “hijklmno (5)”, which of course is Water (geddit?), and “ICUM” Capsicum. ---
**Author:** ![hammos1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ba8739/32.png) [@hammos1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hammos1)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-a-cryptic-crossword/208430/19 "2003-10-21T15:07:52Z")
Hell, may as well throw in a couple more: Big red spanner (6,4,6) Pain! (6,5) ---
**Author:** ![chillihead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/278dde/32.png) [@chillihead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chillihead)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-a-cryptic-crossword/208430/20 "2003-10-21T15:32:35Z")
Big Reg Spanner Golden Gate Bridge Pain! Window Glass [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-a-cryptic-crossword/208430.md?page=2)