# Help with a Faggot... Friends, Romanticists, Lateinists, lend me your ear. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 12, 2008, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-a-faggot-friends-romanticists-lateinists-lend-me-your-ear/448982 "2008-05-12T01:53:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-a-faggot-friends-romanticists-lateinists-lend-me-your-ear/448982/1 "2008-05-12T01:53:26Z")
A [fasces](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasces) is a [faggot](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faggot_%28wood%29). If one were collecting and bundling a fasces in ancient rome, what would be the verb or action word? Does one “farcire”(L.stuff) a “fasces”. Is there some past participling going on there? Peripherally, does one “farcire” a quiver with arrows? ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-a-faggot-friends-romanticists-lateinists-lend-me-your-ear/448982/2 "2008-05-12T02:06:08Z")
I guess to narrow it down… is _fasces_ a gerund of _farcire_? ---
**Author:** ![WoodenTaco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/45deac/32.png) [@WoodenTaco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WoodenTaco)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-a-faggot-friends-romanticists-lateinists-lend-me-your-ear/448982/3 "2008-05-12T02:19:45Z")
Your own wikipedia cite answers the question. It’s a [noun](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plurale_tantum) which only appears in the plural form. The only verb starting with “fasc” is [fascino](http://catholic.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/lookup.pl?stem=fasc&ending=), which means to bewitch or envy. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-a-faggot-friends-romanticists-lateinists-lend-me-your-ear/448982/4 "2008-05-12T02:31:23Z")
Yes, BUT… What is the verb. One doesn’t “fascino” the “fasces”, now does one? One might stuff a fasces, then bewitch it, but first one must gather and stuff a fasces, right? ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-a-faggot-friends-romanticists-lateinists-lend-me-your-ear/448982/5 "2008-05-12T02:51:30Z")
I’m away from my reference books now, but as far as I can tell from [this resource](http://www.ieed.nl/), the two words are unrelated. The noun is from the Indo-European root _bhasko-_ and the verb from _bharek-_. I have no idea what Latin verb would be used in context to mean “assembling/gathering [a bundle]”. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-a-faggot-friends-romanticists-lateinists-lend-me-your-ear/448982/6 "2008-05-12T03:32:35Z")
[QUOTE=bibliophage] I’m away from my reference books now, but as far as I can tell from [this resource](http://www.ieed.nl/), the two words are unrelated. The noun is from the Indo-European root _bhasko-_ and the verb from _bharek-_. [/QUOTE] This is a bit vague, and I’m not sure if I understand??? Are you saying that “fasces” comes form “bhasko” and its verb contingent is “bharek”? Because, if so, even I recognize bhasko and bharek are closely related and have undergone a regular shift. It sounds similar to the regular shift that fasces and farcire might have undergone. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-a-faggot-friends-romanticists-lateinists-lend-me-your-ear/448982/7 "2008-05-12T03:43:24Z")
[QUOTE=devilsknew] Yes, BUT… What is the verb. One doesn’t “fascino” the “fasces”, now does one? One might stuff a fasces, then bewitch it, but first one must gather and stuff a fasces, right? [/QUOTE] Both _fascino_ and _fasces_ are derived from _fascinum_ which was a phallic symbol worn as an amulet to ward of the evil eye. Fascinum was a Roman fertility god (the equivalent of the Greek Priapus) whose symbol was basically a giant boner. Fascinum had the power to ward off evil, and his name became synonomous with the phallic symbols worn as amulets. The amulets were sometimes modified or made more abstract. The fasces was one such phallic symbol. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-a-faggot-friends-romanticists-lateinists-lend-me-your-ear/448982/8 "2008-05-12T03:48:14Z")
Yes, but I think you are missing the dynamic here… What does one do with a boner? One stuffs it into something… Am I right? ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-a-faggot-friends-romanticists-lateinists-lend-me-your-ear/448982/9 "2008-05-12T03:51:32Z")
And you stuff away a bunch of small boners (sticks) to make one big Boner {a faggot}. ---
**Author:** ![WoodenTaco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/45deac/32.png) [@WoodenTaco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WoodenTaco)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-a-faggot-friends-romanticists-lateinists-lend-me-your-ear/448982/10 "2008-05-12T04:02:41Z")
[QUOTE=devilsknew] Yes, but I think you are missing the dynamic here… What does one do with a boner? One stuffs it into something… Am I right? [/QUOTE] That’s quite a leap. What’s your reason for believing it, since we haven’t got the vern you are looking for? ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-a-faggot-friends-romanticists-lateinists-lend-me-your-ear/448982/11 "2008-05-12T04:06:31Z")
Well, I believe it’s an interesting subject. I think if people would step out of what the “modern authority” says they might see a much richer etymology. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-a-faggot-friends-romanticists-lateinists-lend-me-your-ear/448982/12 "2008-05-12T10:43:11Z")
[QUOTE=bibliophage] I’m away from my reference books now, but as far as I can tell from [this resource](http://www.ieed.nl/), the two words are unrelated. The noun is from the Indo-European root _bhasko-_ and the verb from _bharek-_. I have no idea what Latin verb would be used in context to mean “assembling/gathering [a bundle]”. [/QUOTE] hm, back up and go read some of the writings on farming and see what they use? Although just as an aside, I seriously doubt that the item came from a phallic pendant decoration, my take on it is a bundle of grape canes [like the ones used in the legions as swagger sticks to beat soldiers with] bundled with an axe that might be ised to chop someones head off with, though I really dont remember axes being used in executions, i remember swords being used so perhaps it dates back to an overseer who would carry around the grape canes to beat slaves with, and an axe to do his work. Seems like the threat to beat someone with a cane makes more sense than a phallus in a symbol of authority. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-a-faggot-friends-romanticists-lateinists-lend-me-your-ear/448982/13 "2008-05-12T12:57:00Z")
[QUOTE=devilsknew] I guess to narrow it down… is _fasces_ a gerund of _farcire_? [/QUOTE] There’s nothing in my best sources to indicate this. The OED(online) says that _fasces_ is the plural noun of _fascis_ which meant _bundle_. My _Chamber’s Dictionary of Etymology_ is what I trust the most on these things and it says > [@](#): > > 1598, borrorwed from Latin _fasces_, plural of _fascis_ bundle of wood, etc.); related to _fascia_ band, bandage, fillet, and probably cognate with Macedonian _baskioi_ bundle of wood, from Indo–European _bhasko-_.