They’re all Presarios, BTW, not Pavilions. I can’t speak to Pavilions.
I thought that Presarios were Compaq computers, not HP?
HP bought Compaq a few years ago, so the Presario is actually an HP machine now. It might be marketed as a Compaq, but it’s an HP.
Yeah, i’ve been keeping an eye on Dell prices and specs for about a month now, and what they seem to do is change the specs and prices every so often. One week they’ll be giving you 512Mb of RAM but only a 40Gb hard drive, and the next week it will all change around. You really have to be careful to make sure that you get everything you want in a single package, and check the pricing closely at the checkout.
Most of the systems i’m looking at do indeed have one of these cards. For me, the video card probably won’t be the thing that makes or breaks the deal.
Actually, my question about which system was more of a rhetorical one. I don’t expect you to spend time looking them all over. I was more interested in knowing that HP is, in fact, a decent brand.
Looking on CompUSA’s website, i found a couple that might fit the bill.
This one has the sort of specs i’m looking for (although the DVD only writes at 4x) for just under $1000. This one is more powerful and with better optical drives/writers, but it’s at the top end of my price range, and i still need a monitor.
I wonder whether the refurbished HPs available at CompUSA are worth the risk? If so, then this seems like a reasonable deal; it’s the same system as the first one linked in the above paragraph, but costs $750. That would leave me enough for a good, 19" flat screen CRT monitor, plus a coupla hundred for upgrades or peripherals.
On a similar note, does anyone know anything about Sony Vaio desktops? I know that Sony has always had a decent reputation as an electronics manufacturers, but i haven’t heard much about their computers.
This seems to be the case with all the manufacturers. It’s really something of a crapshoot, with no standardization of pricing and specs, even within a single manufacturer’s price structure.
Ah, i see.
Does this change things? I remember hearing that Compaq (or was it Toshiba? maybe i’m getting confused) used a bunch of proprietary stuff that made reapirs and upgrades something of a hassle, and also that they bundled a bunch of crappy software that was hard to remove.
Is this true? And did the HP takeover make Compaq-brand computers better or worse?
One more thing. I don’t know how much you know about computers, so forgive me if I am saying things you already know.
Are you sure you don’t want to build the system yourself? If everything goes right, you can have it up and running in less than a weekend (and a lot of that is the software install.) As I said earlier, don’t let me try and talk you out of anything you want or don’t want to do.
I believe that there is no better way to learn about how a computer works (I don’t mean the electronics and such nitpicky parts, but more of a macro level) than to put it all together yourself. Unlike old parts and form factors, cards and such are really easy to deal with now. Depending on whether or not you want to keep your old computer intact, you can strip part of it for parts, reinstall OEM included programs (such as the office suite) on the new one, and so on. For example, you could use your old hard drive (assuming it’s not one of the components that might be failing) purely for your OS and put all your programs and files on a new hard drive. I’m doing that right now with a 40 gig and a 160 gig drive. You don’t need a lot of space for the OS, as I triple-booted my machine for a little while giving each OS about 13 gigs each. Shopping online will get you good deals on new parts as well, but you have to spend some time looking.
I personally believe that the savings you see from a manufacturer like Dell or Gateway is not so much lower-quality parts as the price of buying all the software yourself, although this can be reduced if you already have software or don’t mind going open-source or freeware. For example, you could take your copy of whatever OS you’re running right now (my guess would be either WinME or Win98SE) and buy an upgrade version of XP Home or XP Pro for about $99 or $199, respectively.
I don’t know how much my family paid over the years by doing what was more a series of upgrades instead of buying a new computer every two or three years, but I do know that we bought a Gateway in 1994 and didn’t buy another manufactured computer until the old one was so far behind that it was cheaper to buy a new Dell for about $600 in 2001 or 2002. And I’ll admit that I haven’t priced out what replacing my motherboard, RAM, and CPU would cost me, but I have spent about $250 to $300 adding a hard drive and replacing my DVD and CD-RW drives, though I did get a little money back selling the old optical drives on eBay. Plus another $100 for upgrading to WinXP Pro (that was an academic price.)
[q]Does this change things? I remember hearing that Compaq (or was it Toshiba? maybe i’m getting confused) used a bunch of proprietary stuff that made reapirs and upgrades something of a hassle, and also that they bundled a bunch of crappy software that was hard to remove.
Is this true? And did the HP takeover make Compaq-brand computers better or worse?[/q]
I think they (well, the big names) all use proprietary hardware - Toshiba, Compaq, HP, Dell, etc. As to how the takeover affected the machines I haven’t the foggiest: I’m one of those “I’ll never buy an OEM machine if my life depended on it” kind of guys. Ever since I decided to stop building my own computers (not enough time), I’ve gone to the local computer guy and handpicked my components.
It all sounds rather appealing, asterion. I guess my questions would be:
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How adept at mechanical operations would i have to be in order to put my own computer together? What tools would i need?
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How much would i have to know about electronics, etc.?
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Where can i find out exactly what i need to buy in order to put a machine together?
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Are there any books or websites that tell me how to go about it? And do the components (notherboards, hard drives, DVD drives, etc.) come with installation instructions?
As far as OS goes, you’re right that i’m currently running WinME. I’m a student, and my university has a deal whereby we can buy a WinXP Pro upgrade for $70, which seems like a pretty good deal to me.
If i did decide to build a system, where should i look for parts? I remember seeing threads in which Dopers have recommended newegg.com, but i’m sure that there are other good sites out there…
If you’ve never even changed the components in the machines that you have owned (I get the feeling that you haven’t, and a quick review of your posts hasn’t changed that feeling), then I would strongly recommend not building your own machine.
As a matter of fact, if you’re not a power user or a gamer, and you don’t want the hassle of picking out components/building your own machine, there really is no need not to buy a Dell. I know it’s against the advice (even mine) given in this thread, but sometimes stuff like this isn’t worth worrying about.
Not much, actually. Get yourself one of those little specialized computer toolkits, like from Belkin. The metal will all have been demagnetized and it’ll come with a number of handy things like a screwdriver with lots of different bits, a couple pairs of tweezers (mostly needed for switching jumpers), a chip extractor, a little pickup dealie for screws and such, and maybe some extra screws. Generally, if you can use a screwdriver and can be careful yet firm inserting cards and the like, you’ll be fine.
Practically none. I’d spend some time on messageboards asking for recommendations on a motherboard, CPU, chipset, RAM, and power supply, but that’s a question of getting the best stuff at a good price. The new form factors make it difficult to impossible to put a card in wrong or to accidentally attach a power cord backwards. It’s all IC, so all you have to do is plug it in.
Here would probably work. The previously mentioned Tom’s Hardware looks pretty good too, and I’m sure there’s a slew of other good message boards out there. Basically, though, you need a motherboard (I suggest against getting one with onboard audio and/or video), processor, RAM, power supply, video card, sound card, a new hard drive, possibly new optical drives, a 3.5" floppy drive. As for specific recommendations, I’m not on top enough to give any other than the optical drives I use, since I like them. I’d assume that you already have an ethernet card in your old computer for your school’s network. You might or might not want to get a modem, depending on how you use your computer, though they’re generally cheap enough that you might as well.
The motherboard will come with a manual telling you everything about the motherboard and where stuff is. Hard drives and optical drives may or may not, depending on whether you get the retail box style or just the bare drive. I suggest getting the retail box since you’ll probably need the rails and screws and maybe even the IDEE cable. When I got my second hard drive, I saved some money getting the bare drive, but that was because I already had everything I needed that would have come in a retail box and the jumper settings are printed on the drive itself. I’m sure there are good websites out there, but I don’t personally know of any.
A WinXP Pro upgrade is a very good deal and better than what I got. The normal WinXP Pro upgrade retails for about $200. I suggest using WinXP Pro over home, especially if you’re on a school network. It’s got nice networking capabilites and in fact your school may require that you use Pro if you are going to use XP.
Fair enough. As I said, I’m a bit biased due to my own history with computers, which while not much of a computer geek compared to a lot of people, is enough to serve my purposes and allow me to do things like that. All I am suggesting is that, since mhendo seems to be willing to listen to all suggestions, comparsion shop, and the like, that it might be worthwhile for him to look into learning how to do it himself. I also agree that a prebuilt computer will do the job for many people and quite possibly for mhendo as well. It really is a question of personal preference and convience, much like how I’d rather pay someone to change my oil instead of doing it myself.
Yeah, I’m biased as well (I can’t stand OEM machines and I’ve been building computers since the late 80s), but, imho, one can’t really expect somebody with no experience in upgrading (again an assumption) to satisfactorily (and successfully) build their own machine. If things go right, it’s a piece of cake, if things go wrong, well, I (and you) have a bit of experience to fall back on. If the new DVD drive doesn’t work, what is it? Bad cables? Insufficient power? A broken drive? Improperly installed drivers? A Windows problem? I could probably figure it out in an hour or so, others can do so in 15 minutes, somebody totally inexperienced might take a week before they decide to take it in the shop and let somebody else deal with it.
I really appreciate all the advice.
I think that, for this computer, it really would be better for me to get a system that’s ready to go, rather than build it myself. JohnT is correct that i have absolutely no experience messing around inside my computer’s case, and i’m not sure that building one from scratch right now is a good idea, especially given the steep learning curve that would be involved both in terms of the equipment itself and putting it together.
I do like the principle, though, and i think that over the next few years i’ll try, in my spare time, to learn as much as i can about computer components and how they fit together. That way, when the computer that i’m about to buy is ready to be replaced in three or four years, i will be ready to delve into the business of putting one together myself.
Also, while i quite like the idea of tinkering around with the components and such, right now i really can’t afford the time. I have paid-work jobs that i have to do in order to pay the rent, and i have a PhD dissertation in progress that isn’t going to get written any faster if i’m spending hours researching motherboards and system memory and video cards, and then trying to buy the right ones and put them all together.
I think it really comes down to a choice between the Dell that i described in the OP (offer good until Wednesday 6/9 only, when some other “spectacular” offer will no doubt replace it) or another system from CompUSA (or somewhere similar) like a Sony or an HP.
I must say that, despite what i’ve read about the contrast and color issues related to LCD screens, i quite like the idea of the 17" flat panel monitor that Dell is currently offering as a “free” upgrade. While i do digital photography and use Photoshop and Flash, a large proportion of my computer time is also spend doing dissertation-related stuff like online research and writing (as well as hanging out on SDMB), and it always seems to me that LCD screens are easier on the eyes.
I guess that it probably sounds to many of you like i’ve already decided on the Dell, and am now just trying to rationalize my decision. You might be right. But i like to think that i’m still at least open to other out-of-the-box solutions like HP or Sony, and if anyone has any advice about this i’d be happy to hear it. While i don’t necessarily need a new computer right this minute, i do want to move on this pretty quickly, as my current computer has given me the Blue Screen of Death twice today, and has needed to be rebooted each time.
Buy a new one, and take the old one apart in your free time. That way, you never have to worry about breaking it.
Neither Dell nor Gateway “suck”. Both make fine PCs that most consumers use without major hardware issues. The Dell is the PC you want out of the two and the video card you have chosen, while not a bleeding edge gamer’s wet dream, will work fine for image and video editing re your intended purposes.
I would get a DVD burner if you are doing video work.
That certainly makes me feel better. 
The Dell i’m looking at does indeed have a DVD burner, which is good not only for video, but the larger storage capacity of DVDs will allow me to get many more digital photos on each disc, meaning that i will have fewer discs cluttering up the place.
Yeah I think you got the right idea Mhendo, even though I agree with these guys that building your own is better 99% of the time. It’s always the little things that will get you, like putting the cpu in without snapping it in two, connecting the system/HD activity lights and system speaker to the motherboard, or setting the drive jumpers. These are things that we take for granted, but would probably confuse the hell out of someone not comfortable toying around inside the box. Over time you’ll become familiar with these things, (got a new hard drive, learned about jumpers, got a new case, learned to wire it to mobo) but for now you just need the thing to turn on and go.
Now that we’ve got that out of the way, let me throw up some links.
How to build a $1000 super gaming machine. (yea yea, I just thought I would include it.) 
http://www.tomshardware.com/game/20040529/index.html
For tons of good guides, go to http://www.tomshardware.com then on the left side look for “guides”. Once you click that, a submenu will pop up under it, with all the different components, (drives, power, cpus, cases, video, etc, etc). They have some fantastic resources if you surf around the site.
Places to buy things.
http://www.tigerdirect.com (try getting a monitor here)
zipzoomfly.com (used to be called googlegear.com, I got most of my stuff from here)
http://www.computerhq.com (every other site, my comp case was $110 - $130, this place had it for $85)
One important thing to remember about monitors btw is that CRT (cathode ray tube, AKA the regular normal kind) and LCD are measured differently. A 19" CRT has about the same screen size as a 17" LCD.
LCD --------------- CRT
15" ---------------- 17"
17" -----------------19"
19"------------------21"
21" ----------------- Too much money
That 450n from CompUSA looks like a good machine, and personally I wouldn’t worry about the DVD burner only being 4 times. The fact of the matter is sure, you’ll splurge, you’ll have the 8X, but you know what? I just looked on a few websites, and I don’t even see blank discs that you can write to at 8X, 4X is the fastest. I’m sure they’re on the way, but the faster the supported write speed, the more expensive. 4X is more expensive then 2X, guess which discs I buy? Don’t get me wrong, 8X is nice if you have the $50, I’m just saying you won’t really be taking advantage of it for awhile, and when you do, it will cost more, at least initially. Other then that, the machine meets my specs, 512 ram, 3 ghz and a huge 160 gig hard drive. IIRC my girlfriend bought the model under this one (420n?), because she has a 2.8 ghz and I think the HD was 120 gig.
Feel free to post the specs on the Dell, who knows it could be a better deal.
I haven’t read through all the posts since I posted yesterday, so sorry if I’m repeating what others have said.
All brand-name computers will have proprietary stuff. That’s why I like white boxes. If you don’t want to build your own computer, you can get someone to put together a white box for you for not much money.
Another posibility is to look into used servers. I haven’t looked lately, but you can get them remarkably cheap. Servers are where the quality is. Proliants are probably the best out there. So check ebay and see if you can pick one up that meets your requirements.
Thanks again, World Eater. It’s good to have that info about where to get stuff. I think that once i’ve bought the new machine, i might slowly (as money and time allow) start rebuilding my old one in order to learn how it’s done. That way, i can learn without fucking up a good machine, and i might know what i’m doing by the time i’m ready to buy another new one in a few years’ time. Also, if i can successfully fix up the old one, i can give it to my SO for home use–she has a laptop with a PII 233MHz with a 2Gig hard drive.
The Dell still seems like a pretty good deal, especially if i decide i want a relatively large LCD screen. Its specs are:
P4 3.0GHz processor with Hyperthreading Technology, 800Mb FSB
512Mb RAM
160Gb Serial ATA HDD
Dual Drives: 16x DVD-ROM and 8x DVD+RW
128MB DDR GeForce FX 5200 Graphics Card with TV-Out and DVI
Sound Blaster Live! 5.1 (D) Card
Dell 17" E172FPb Flat Panel Display
I just went online to look at the system again, and Dell has removed the “free shipping” option that applied to this computer yesterday. So the price has gone up by $99, bringing the total for the system, including shipping, to $1,199.
I’m about to drive up to CompUSA to have a look at what they’ve got on the floor. That HP is starting to look pretty good, especially now that the Dell has effectively gone up by a hundred bucks.
On the monitor issue, i always thought that a 19" CRT was 1" larger than a 17" LCD. I was under the impression that, for LCDs, the stated size and the actual VIS were the same, whereas for CRTs the VIS is 1" less than the official size. For example, my current 17" CRT has an actual screen horizontal measurement of 16", which would make it about an inch bigger than a 15" CRT.
kelly: can a server be used as a regular home computer? Do any modifications have to be made? I don’t know much about this sort of thing.
Sounds like a good idea.
So for $200 more then the HP, you get a 17 flat panel, and a better sound card. Considering that a low end, bottom of the barrel 17 inch LCD costs $350 and up, the Dell sounds like the better buy.
Who knows? Maybe They’ll have a sale.
But don’t forget that the 15" CRT has a horizontal measurment of about 14". CRT screens are measured diagonally from lower corner to higher corner, with the molding included. LCDs are measured in the same fashion, but only the actual screen is incorporated into the size, none of “trim”.
Although I’ve never thought of that, I probably wouldn’t mess with a server as the guts (hard drives, CPU, etc) will differ from a home machine.
Yes, a server can be used as a home computer. They usually come naked from the factory, but if you’re buying one used (you could never afford a new one) the previous owner would presumably have put in memory, video cards, a nic, and one or more hard drives. Once you’ve got those things, you’re in business.
The one thing you’ve got to watch out for is that some servers have seriously noisy fans. All servers are going to be noisier than a consumer PC. Some are not very loud at all, others sound like a jet aircraft. So be sure to ask about that.
Every non-white box desktop I’ve ever bought has been refurbished. I got them from the Compaq factory outlet (now it’s HP, but I’ve never dealt with them since the merger). I got a couple of DOA boxes, but they were very responsive about replacing them, paid all the shipping, and I never had a problem after that. If CompUSA has similar policies, I’d say this is definitely a good option. You save a pile.