# help with finding a painting for a symbolism lesson
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-finding-a-painting-for-a-symbolism-lesson/537068
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [April 23, 2010, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-finding-a-painting-for-a-symbolism-lesson/537068 "2010-04-23T02:09:50Z")
**Posts on this page:** 17
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)
#### Post date: [April 23, 2010, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-finding-a-painting-for-a-symbolism-lesson/537068/1 "2010-04-23T02:09:50Z")
My knowledge of art is sorely lacking - I’m looking for a painting like “Self-Portrait With Vanitas Symbols” (Bailly) that could be used for a lesson on symbolism for 6-7th graders. Nothing too obscure or surreal (Magritte, for example, I think would be over their heads).
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. 🙂
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### Author:  [@BACI](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BACI)
#### Post date: [April 23, 2010, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-finding-a-painting-for-a-symbolism-lesson/537068/2 "2010-04-23T12:04:46Z")
Umm.
Bump~
I’m interested in the answer!
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### Author:  [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)
#### Post date: [April 23, 2010, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-finding-a-painting-for-a-symbolism-lesson/537068/3 "2010-04-23T12:05:42Z")
How about other 17th-c still lifes by someone like Pieter Claesz.? Or the Arnolfini “wedding” portrait? Trying to think of something that’s not ridiculously religious. . .
(if you find something interesting and want some help unpacking it, ask, as that’s what I do, strangely enough)
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### Author:  [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)
#### Post date: [April 23, 2010, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-finding-a-painting-for-a-symbolism-lesson/537068/4 "2010-04-23T12:20:58Z")
How about that Bruegels, _[Landscape with the fall of Icarus](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landscape_with_the_Fall_of_Icarus)_?
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### Author:  [@Rrose\_Selavy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rrose_Selavy)
#### Post date: [April 23, 2010, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-finding-a-painting-for-a-symbolism-lesson/537068/5 "2010-04-23T12:28:40Z")
A little mysterious, but How about [The Ambassadors](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ambassadors_(Holbein))?
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### Author:  [@Darryl\_Lict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darryl_Lict)
#### Post date: [April 23, 2010, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-finding-a-painting-for-a-symbolism-lesson/537068/6 "2010-04-23T12:33:04Z")
I’m not sure what exactly you’re looking for, but [_The Garden of Earthly Delights_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Garden_of_Earthly_Delights) by **Hieronymus Bosch** has always been a favorite of mine. Might freak out those youngsters though.
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### Author:  [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)
#### Post date: [April 23, 2010, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-finding-a-painting-for-a-symbolism-lesson/537068/7 "2010-04-23T12:40:19Z")
“Still Life: An Allegory of the Vanities of Human Life” by Harmen Steenwyck is cool because it has a samurai sword. Kids still like that stuff, right? 🙂
> **[Harmen Steenwyck | Still Life: An Allegory of the Vanities of Human Life |...](https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/harmen-steenwyck-still-life-an-allegory-of-the-vanities-of-human-life)**
>
> Harmen Steenwyck, Still Life: An Allegory of the Vanities of Human Life, about 1640. Read about this painting, learn the key facts and zoom in to discover more.
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### Author:  [@tobijc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tobijc)
#### Post date: [April 27, 2010, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-finding-a-painting-for-a-symbolism-lesson/537068/8 "2010-04-27T05:29:07Z")
Nothing too crazy, but I was thinking of Dali’s Persistence of Memory.
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### Author:  [@infinitii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/infinitii)
#### Post date: [April 27, 2010, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-finding-a-painting-for-a-symbolism-lesson/537068/9 "2010-04-27T05:41:55Z")
I don’t know about too obscure or anything, but if I were to do such a study, I would use Dürer’s “Melancolia I”.
> **[Melencolia I](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melencolia_I)**
>
> Melencolia I is a large 1514 engraving by the German Renaissance artist Albrecht Dürer. Its central subject is an enigmatic and gloomy winged female figure thought to be a personification of melancholia – melancholy. Holding her head in her hand, she stares past the busy scene in front of her. The area is strewn with symbols and tools associated with craft and carpentry, including an hourglass, weighing scales, a hand plane, a claw hammer, and a saw. Other objects relate to alchemy, geometry or...
Though, on retrospect, I guess it’s not a painting…
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### Author:  [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)
#### Post date: [April 27, 2010, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-finding-a-painting-for-a-symbolism-lesson/537068/10 "2010-04-27T11:16:14Z")
I believe there’s supposed to be a lot of “simple” symbolism in American Gothic, but haven’t really read up on it. I mention it only because the kids would recognize the painting, and the experience of “re-seeing” something familiar often makes an impact.
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### Author:  [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)
#### Post date: [April 27, 2010, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-finding-a-painting-for-a-symbolism-lesson/537068/11 "2010-04-27T12:47:51Z")
What makes you think [Magritte](http://www.google.com/images?q=magritte&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=idPWS6--MY-a8AScueCUBw&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCkQsAQwAA) would be “over their heads”? Most of his works are _simple_, taken separately. But–is he using cut & dried symbolism or making suggestions? (You could drop a few [Surreal](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrealism) hints.)
What’s the context of your class? Obviously not Art History, since you claim to be lacking knowledge in that field. Literature? Allegory? Christian Saints may be identified by their [symbols](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_symbolism). Heading toward the Renaissance, Wikipedia even supplies [an explanation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Holbein_the_Younger) for Holbein’s [The Ambassadors](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:The_Ambassadors,_by_Hans_Holbein_the_Younger.jpg):
> [@](#):
>
> … This life-sized panel portrays Jean de Dinteville, an ambassador of Francis I of France in 1533, and Georges de Selve, Bishop of Lavaur, who visited London the same year. The work incorporates symbols and paradoxes, including an anamorphic (distorted) skull. According to scholars, these encode enigmatic references to learning, religion, mortality, and illusion in the tradition of the Northern Renaissance. Art historians Oskar Bätschmann and Pascal Griener suggest that in The Ambassadors “Sciences and arts, objects of luxury and glory, are measured against the grandeur of Death”.
Then, there are the [Symbolists](http://www.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&tbs=isch:1&sa=1&q=symbolists&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=). (You can find\* a few\* pictures without naked ladies!) Here’s some [background](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbolism_(arts)). More [Death](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:The_Death_of_the_Grave_Digger.jpg)…
(Mid 20th Century, the de Menils settled in Houston, with the goal of bringing culture to Texas. Before they built [their own museum](http://www.menil.org/index.php), they sponsored mind-opening shows all over our city. [Painters of the Mind’s Eye: Belgian Symbolists & Surrealists](http://www.amazon.com/PAINTERS-MINDS-EYE-SYMBOLISTS-SURREALISTS/dp/B000IA0T5I) certainly opened my mind! One of my hippie friends yelled at me for blowing $5.00 on the catalog; I’ve still got it.)
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### Author:  [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)
#### Post date: [April 27, 2010, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-finding-a-painting-for-a-symbolism-lesson/537068/12 "2010-04-27T13:53:48Z")
\*\*HNC \*\*- are you looking to specifically discuss the [Symbolist movement](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbolism_in_art)(wiki link - the section on Visual Art lists many examples) or more just the concept that in Art, many times what is painted is clearly meant to represent something more, like an idea?
I mean - why not go for a typical French National type painting, where La Liberte’ - France’s concept of itself as a Nation - is symbolized by a [hot lady, preferably with at least one boob showing](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/a/a7/20050121022331!Eug%C3%A8ne_Delacroix_-_La_libert%C3%A9_guidant_le_peuple.jpg). Sorry for the crude line, and the kids may giggle at the boob, but this is a country’s narrative for itself and you can’t get more symbolistic than that. Heck, if you want to get boring you can use Uncle Sam representing the U.S., but he isn’t used in classic Art the way Ms. Liberty Boob is…
My $.02 - fwiw, my Mom teaches art appreciation to 5th graders in California and uses stuff like this…not exactly Korea, though, so perhaps different norms about boobage in class 😉
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### Author:  [@parsnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/parsnip)
#### Post date: [April 27, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-finding-a-painting-for-a-symbolism-lesson/537068/13 "2010-04-27T16:51:15Z")
Thomas Cole–the kids should be able to explain the series of symbols to you–
> **[The Voyage of Life](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Voyage_of_Life)**
>
> The Voyage of Life is a series of four paintings created by the American artist Thomas Cole in 1840 and reproduced with minor alterations in 1842, representing an allegory of the four stages of human life. The paintings, Childhood, Youth, Manhood, and Old Age, depict a voyager who travels in a boat on a river through the mid-19th-century American wilderness. In each painting the voyager rides the boat on the River of Life accompanied by a guardian angel. The landscape, each reflecting one of the ...
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### Author:  [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2010, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-finding-a-painting-for-a-symbolism-lesson/537068/14 "2010-04-29T02:58:09Z")
So \*\*HazelNut \*\*- did you get what you need?
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### Author:  [@Rrose\_Selavy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rrose_Selavy)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2010, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-finding-a-painting-for-a-symbolism-lesson/537068/15 "2010-05-02T14:21:56Z")
> [@WordMan](#):
>
> So \*\*HazelNut \*\*- did you get what you need?
Don’t you hate it as well when someone asks a question, gets plenty of replies, has been /is online , posts to several other threads , yet doesn’t even bother to return to their thread to respond any of the suggestions/questions?:mad:
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### Author:  [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2010, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-finding-a-painting-for-a-symbolism-lesson/537068/16 "2010-08-05T20:52:39Z")
> [@Rrose\_Selavy](#):
>
> > [@WordMan](#):
> >
> > So \*\*HazelNut \*\*- did you get what you need?
>
> Don’t you hate it as well when someone asks a question, gets plenty of replies, has been /is online , posts to several other threads , yet doesn’t even bother to return to their thread to respond any of the suggestions/questions?:mad:
Uh, sorry. Life happened, but I did remember this thread and a belated thanks to everyone who replied. (Also, I needed the answer that day and when I didn’t get any right away I think I just winged it. But the suggestions are still helpful for another lesson I’m planning at the moment. Also I forgot to subscribe to the thread.)
I was looking for a painting to use in a literature class - just to give them something different (a picture rather than a text). This is an ESL class so even though most of the kids speak English almost fluently, some of them don’t have the language that would be needed to discuss something too obscure. Also it’s only a 15 minute lesson, so I needed something with a lot of interesting stuff but nothing that would require too much explanation. Another thing is that some of my teachers are lazy/not very bright and if I gave them anything too out there that they’re not able to find on wiki or Sparknotes they would whine about it.
Also, I needed something that could be recognizable in black and white print. Yeah, I forgot to put all this info in the OP. :smack:
Anyway, thanks everyone for the suggestions. “An Allegory of the Vanities of Life” is perfect. Thanks **hogarth**!
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2010, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-finding-a-painting-for-a-symbolism-lesson/537068/17 "2010-08-05T22:33:07Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Nothing too obscure or surreal (Magritte, for example, I think would be over their heads).
[This is not Magritte](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MagrittePipe.jpg).