# Help with translation into German and Latin? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 4, 2017, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-translation-into-german-and-latin/790476 "2017-07-04T01:15:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-translation-into-german-and-latin/790476/1 "2017-07-04T01:15:34Z")
I would love some help translating a couple unrelated phrases. * * * One is for a Germanophile having a difficult time right now: “When hot dogs are mandatory, bratwurst becomes resistance” I think he’ll get the humor of playing off ‘When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.’ ## Google Translate tells me this is “Wenn Hot Dogs obligatorisch sind, wird Bratwurst Widerstand” The second is also not intended very seriously: “Keep your fork, there’s pie!” Google Translate tells me that in Latin this is “Custodiam tua furca, illic pie scriptor” What does the SDMB say? Anyone good with German or Latin? ---
**Author:** ![Weisshund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba8739/32.png) [@Weisshund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weisshund)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-translation-into-german-and-latin/790476/2 "2017-07-04T01:46:21Z")
Wenn frankfurter obligatorisch wird bratwurst wird widerstand He may or may not understand hot dog? ---
**Author:** ![Weisshund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba8739/32.png) [@Weisshund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weisshund)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-translation-into-german-and-latin/790476/3 "2017-07-04T01:55:12Z")
Curious? I am missing the humor in Wenn das gesetz frankfurter wird, wird die pflicht bratwurst ? Feel like im missing a great joke ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-translation-into-german-and-latin/790476/4 "2017-07-04T03:50:25Z")
Not a great joke, I’m afraid. Just playing on the idea that conformity in American consumerism makes the hot dog popular, and so the bratwurst becomes an act of resistance against that conformity. (Especially humorous in that it isn’t particularly close to true.) And the famous quote I mentioned above about injustice and resistance. Not everybody’s cup of tea, I understand, but then everybody’s not closely related to me. Hm. Probably using ‘frankfurter’ would undermine the consumerist conformity aspect, so I should probably just stick to ‘hot dog.’ So would it be: “Wenn das gesetz hot dog wird, wird die pflicht bratwurst”? Many Thanks! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-translation-into-german-and-latin/790476/5 "2017-07-04T04:22:03Z")
> [@wevets](#): > > So would it be: “Wenn das gesetz hot dog wird, wird die pflicht bratwurst”? Something which might hit closer to the heart: “Wenn das gesetz Coors wird, wird die pflicht Bier” 😉 (As in, when Coors is mandatory, drinking _beer_ is an act of resistance.) ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-translation-into-german-and-latin/790476/6 "2017-07-04T05:00:00Z")
> [@wevets](#): > > So would it be: “Wenn das gesetz hot dog wird, wird die pflicht bratwurst”? There’s a danger of understanding this the wrong way around, e.g. as duty itself becoming bratwurst, though. I would say, “Wenn Hot Dogs Gesetz sind, ist Bratwurst Widerstand”. Although I couldn’t tell you why I’d put “Bratwurst” as a singular—to me, it simply sounds better, referring to “the bratwurst” in the abstract. ---
**Author:** ![Remember\_me](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/82dd89/32.png) [@Remember\_me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Remember_me)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-translation-into-german-and-latin/790476/7 "2017-07-04T07:27:23Z")
This German thinks that the Google translation is actually the best proposal in this thread so far. There is however a difference in perceived meaning of the phrase “Hot Dog”. A “Hotdog” (typically spelled as one word in German) is a perfectly normal loan word in German, that nearly anyone here in Germany would be familiar with. The difference in perception is, that the sausage alone is never a “Hotdog”, it is always the combination of a soft, longish bun, a “Bockwurst”-style sausage and some optional condiments (mustard, ketchup, mayonnaise, …), pickles and crisp fried onion. The staple hotdog nearly any German knows is served at [Ikea](http://www.ikea.com/ms/de_DE/campaigns/food/schwedenshop.html?icid=6VgmYrsDLCBjTlzSQ8yLzX3PRhcYsS). The sausage alone would be a Bockwurst (or a number of other regional variations thereof like Frankfurter Würstchen, Wiener Würstchen, Brühwurst, or many more). Btw: A soft, long bun filled with a Bratwurst with condiments would also be considered a “Hotdog”. It is mostly the (soft!) bun, that defines a hotdog in German, not the sausage. One more thing has to be considered: The Phrase “Wenn Hot Dogs obligatorisch sind, wird Bratwurst Widerstand” might carry some sort of cultural isolationism or anti-Americanism: A “Hotdog” is perceived as a foreign food, namely as either American or Danish food (or maybe Swedish, thanks to Ikea). Using Hotdog (as a vehicle for American culture) and Bratwurst (as a vehicle of traditional German culture) in your phrase could thus be perceived as a call to resistance against Americanization of German culture. To avoid any intercultural connotations I would suggest the following phrase: “Wenn Bockwurst obligatorisch ist, wird Bratwurst Widerstand” ---
**Author:** ![Remember\_me](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/82dd89/32.png) [@Remember\_me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Remember_me)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-translation-into-german-and-latin/790476/8 "2017-07-04T07:39:42Z")
Missed the time window for my second edit: To stress the consumerist aspect that you mention in your explanation, you might want to abandon sausage-themed examples for something else. You might use “Wenn der Smoothie zur Pflicht wird, wird das Glas Saft zum Widerstand”. Or “When der Latte Macchiato zur Pflicht wird, wird das Kännchen Kaffee zum Widerstand” In that case you get the opposition of consumerist fruit smoothies or coffee creations against the more traditional things like a glas of fruit juice or “normal” filtered coffee ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-translation-into-german-and-latin/790476/9 "2017-07-04T09:25:05Z")
> [@wevets](#): > > The second is also not intended very seriously: > > “Keep your fork, there’s pie!” > > Google Translate tells me that in Latin this is “Custodiam tua furca, illic pie scriptor” Blech! IIRC the Romans didn’t have forks as eating utensils. And furca is a pitchfork. I suppose a neologism could be furcula - little pitchfork. I suggest substituting spoon. How about _Tene ligulam, nos esuri_ - hold (your) spoon, we are about to eat? But as ever, you don’t want a literal translation, you want something which translates the sense of the phrase, and as I’m unfamiliar with the expression, I’ll leave that to others. ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-translation-into-german-and-latin/790476/10 "2017-07-04T15:00:37Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Something which might hit closer to the heart: “Wenn das gesetz Coors wird, wird die pflicht Bier” 😉 > > (As in, when Coors is mandatory, drinking _beer_ is an act of resistance.) Totally within the spirit of what I’m trying to communicate! 🙂 > [@Remember\_me](#): > > This German thinks that the Google translation is actually the best proposal in this thread so far. > > There is however a difference in perceived meaning of the phrase “Hot Dog”. A “Hotdog” (typically spelled as one word in German) is a perfectly normal loan word in German, that nearly anyone here in Germany would be familiar with. The difference in perception is, that the sausage alone is never a “Hotdog”, it is always the combination of a soft, longish bun, a “Bockwurst”-style sausage and some optional condiments (mustard, ketchup, mayonnaise, …), pickles and crisp fried onion. The staple hotdog nearly any German knows is served at [Ikea](http://www.ikea.com/ms/de_DE/campaigns/food/schwedenshop.html?icid=6VgmYrsDLCBjTlzSQ8yLzX3PRhcYsS). The sausage alone would be a Bockwurst (or a number of other regional variations thereof like Frankfurter Würstchen, Wiener Würstchen, Brühwurst, or many more). Btw: A soft, long bun filled with a Bratwurst with condiments would also be considered a “Hotdog”. It is mostly the (soft!) bun, that defines a hotdog in German, not the sausage. > > One more thing has to be considered: The Phrase “Wenn Hot Dogs obligatorisch sind, wird Bratwurst Widerstand” might carry some sort of cultural isolationism or anti-Americanism: A “Hotdog” is perceived as a foreign food, namely as either American or Danish food (or maybe Swedish, thanks to Ikea). Using Hotdog (as a vehicle for American culture) and Bratwurst (as a vehicle of traditional German culture) in your phrase could thus be perceived as a call to resistance against Americanization of German culture. > > To avoid any intercultural connotations I would suggest the following phrase: “Wenn Bockwurst obligatorisch ist, wird Bratwurst Widerstand” Fascinating. I just automatically mistrust Google Translate for pretty much anything. I’m grateful that you’ve clarified that the bun defines the hot dog for Germans, that would never have even occurred to me. I like your translation a lot - thank you very much! ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-translation-into-german-and-latin/790476/11 "2017-07-04T15:03:05Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Blech! > > IIRC the Romans didn’t have forks as eating utensils. And furca is a pitchfork. I suppose a neologism could be furcula - little pitchfork. I suggest substituting spoon. > > How about _Tene ligulam, nos esuri_ - hold (your) spoon, we are about to eat? > > But as ever, you don’t want a literal translation, you want something which translates the sense of the phrase, and as I’m unfamiliar with the expression, I’ll leave that to others. Furcula does seem much better than “pitchfork,” neologism or not. “Pie” is an important part of the phrase (well, as much as anything here is important) - is there a Latin equivalent for pie? If there is, Google Translate doesn’t seem to know what it is. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-translation-into-german-and-latin/790476/12 "2017-07-04T15:50:46Z")
My Latin dictionary suggests _furcilla_ for fork, and _crustum_ for “pie”. (Also _placenta_, but first, _placenta_ is more like “cake”, and second, ew.) So perhaps _Tene furcillam, praebendum crustum est_ = “hold (your) fork, pie is about to be served”. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-translation-into-german-and-latin/790476/13 "2017-07-04T16:02:15Z")
You’ve used the gerund there; you want the future participle. Instead of worrying about the word for fork, how about using the Latin word for cutlery, ferramentum? Carpe ferramenta, nos esuri? (I’m using the plural here because it sounds better.) BTW is this pie as in pizza, blackberry & apple, or meat? ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-translation-into-german-and-latin/790476/14 "2017-07-04T18:26:25Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > BTW is this pie as in pizza, blackberry & apple, or meat? Blackberry and apple. The phrase means “keep your eating utensil, dessert’s coming”. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-translation-into-german-and-latin/790476/15 "2017-07-04T19:02:24Z")
Right. I think _Tene_ for hold might be better than _Carpe_, but _Carpe_ is more familiar from _Carpe diem_. _Carpe ferramenta, nos amplius esurumus._ though I’m not sure if it shouldn’t be _Carpe ferramenta, nos amplius esuri sumus._ (Hold your utensils, we’re about to eat some more.) ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-translation-into-german-and-latin/790476/16 "2017-07-04T19:20:03Z")
I wonder: instead of the future participle, could we use _mox_, _protinam_, or _statim_? _Carpe ferramenta, mox amplius edemus_. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-translation-into-german-and-latin/790476/17 "2017-07-04T20:11:39Z")
> [@wevets](#): > > … “Keep your fork, there’s pie!” … > [@Quartz](#): > > … > BTW is this pie as in pizza, blackberry & apple, or meat? > [@Derleth](#): > > Blackberry and apple. The phrase means “keep your eating utensil, dessert’s coming”. The German translation is straighforward, but the premise would be somewhat puzzling to a lot of Germans - do people often eat dessert with the same fork they used for the savoury courses in your part of the world? Anyway, the German would be [_Behalte_ (informal)|_Behalten Sie_ (formal)]\* die Gabel, es gibt noch \*[_Kuchen_ (pie, US sense)|_Nachtisch_ (dessert)]. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-translation-into-german-and-latin/790476/18 "2017-07-04T22:46:23Z")
There’s some SD inside running joke about pie, but I can’t quite remember it… ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2017, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-translation-into-german-and-latin/790476/19 "2017-07-05T09:49:09Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > There’s some SD inside running joke about pie, but I can’t quite remember it… _Cum reverteris, crustum adduc._ ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2017, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-translation-into-german-and-latin/790476/20 "2017-07-05T10:48:53Z")
> [@wevets](#): > > “Keep your fork, there’s pie!” > > Google Translate tells me that in Latin this is “Custodiam tua furca, illic pie scriptor” Google Translate for Latin is notoriously and pitifully bad. I suggest: _Furcam tene, crustum habemus!_ [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-translation-into-german-and-latin/790476.md?page=2)