# Help with writing numbers as words **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 5, 2010, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-writing-numbers-as-words/549298 "2010-08-05T17:33:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-writing-numbers-as-words/549298/21 "2010-08-05T21:16:53Z")
> [@J\_Cubed](#): > > 333 = three hundred thirty-three > 330 = three hundred thirty > 300 = three hundred > 303 = three hundred three > 3,003 = three thousand three > 3,030,300,003 = three billion thirty million three hundred thousand three > 3,000,000,000,003 = three trillion three (at this point, you might want to think about significant digits) In Britain and Ireland: three hundred and thirty-three three hundred and thirty three hundred (we agree about this one :)) three hundred and three three thousand and three three billion thirty million three hundred thousand and three three trillion and three ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-writing-numbers-as-words/549298/22 "2010-08-05T21:20:31Z")
There is an excellent reason for not writing numbers with “and”: numbers written in series. Consider the relative clarity of the following: “Examples of perfect squares are sixteen, eighty-one, one hundred twenty-five, and one hundred forty-four.” “Examples of perfect squares are sixteen, eighty-one, one hundred and twenty-five, and one hundred and forty-four.” The first is clearly 16, 81, 125, and 144 – but the second causes a double-take. Until you get to the Oxford comma and penultimate and, it could be “16, 81, 100, and 25…” (which would be a true statement). ===== The rule set I learned was: 1. Always be consistent. Break the other rules if you must to assure conssitency. 2. Always write out the numbers one through ten (except as provided in rule 1). 3. Prefer writing out single-word numbers (sixteen and fifty, rather than 16 and 50). 4. In general, write numerals rather than words for multi-word (including hyphenated-phrase) numbers: 46, 118, 1024, rather than forty-six, one hundred eighteen, one thousand twenty-four. Vary this where it seems appropriate: “The fixed verse forms beloved of Provencal poets were generally short: the villanelle and triolet had eight lines, the sonnet fourteen. But the sestina was an exception, with thirty-nine lines.” (To me that reads better than 8, 14, and 39 popping up in the text.) 5. Always write large numbers (over 10,000) as numerals. Exception: write digits for precise round numbers, words for approximations. 8,000,000 means the next number after 7,999,999; “eight million” means an estimate; it might actually be 7,998,103 or 8,001,643, but it’s right in the eight million range. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-writing-numbers-as-words/549298/23 "2010-08-05T22:58:51Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > There is an excellent reason for not writing numbers with “and”: numbers written in series. Consider the relative clarity of the following: > > “Examples of perfect squares are sixteen, eighty-one, one hundred twenty-five, and one hundred forty-four.” > > “Examples of perfect squares are sixteen, eighty-one, one hundred and twenty-five, and one hundred and forty-four.” > > The first is clearly 16, 81, 125, and 144 Not at all. The first might just as well be “16, 81, 100, 25, and 144”, “16, 80, 1, 125, and 144”, and “16, 80, 1, 100, 20, 5, and 144”, for all we know. As well as “16, 80, 1, 100, 25, and 144”, “16, 81, 120, 5, and 144”, “16, 80, 1, 120, 5, and 144”… you get the idea. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-writing-numbers-as-words/549298/24 "2010-08-05T23:16:16Z")
> [@qpw3141](#): > > > [@ChrisBooth12](#): > > > > and should only be used with decimals. > > I’ve never heard anyone try and use hundred, thousand, etc with octal or hex. **ChrisBooth12** wasn’t talking about decimal as in “base ten,” but about decimal points. I learned in school (and through style guides) that the only time you put an “and” into a number is where the decimal point goes: 4,102.3 = four thousand one hundred two and three tenths Although I would say “four thousand one hundred two point three” and not have the word “and” in the number at all. If you’re writing for publication, follow the style guide of the publisher’s choice. If you’re writing casually, just be consistent. ETA: Putting the word “and” in a year (e.g., “two thousand and ten”) just makes me cringe. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-writing-numbers-as-words/549298/25 "2010-08-06T00:17:27Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > > [@CookingWithGas](#): > > > > Someone else once said, “There are seventeen types of people–one that understands hex and F everyone else.” 😉 > > Wow. This is the only joke along these lines I’ve ever found actually humorous. Glad you liked it. It’s mine, I made it up a couple of years ago, and this is the first time it’s ever been printed, anywhere. 🙂 Oh, and shit, it should have been “sixteen”. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-writing-numbers-as-words/549298/26 "2010-08-06T00:36:05Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > Oh, and shit, it should have been “sixteen”. Heh, good point. I missed that too. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-writing-numbers-as-words/549298/27 "2010-08-06T00:50:05Z")
My observation is that using the “and” seems to be more of a British practice, although that’s not hard and fast. I still recall my 7th-grade math teacher drumming the “and” into us in Texas. But I don’t use it now myself. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-writing-numbers-as-words/549298/28 "2010-08-06T03:50:08Z")
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:24, topic:549298”] I learned in school (and through style guides) that the only time you put an “and” into a number is where the decimal point goes: 4,102.3 = four thousand one hundred two and three tenths Although I would say “four thousand one hundred two point three” and not have the word “and” in the number at all. [/QUOTE] There are times you – well, maybe not _you_ personally – would read the last part of 4102.3 as “three tenths”? Would 0.35 get read as “zero and thirty-five hundredths”? Is this a US practice? (WAG – it sounds a bit like an imperial to metric transition sort of thing). (Another in the "one hundred **and** two camp – British usage often means Commonwealth usage as well). ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-writing-numbers-as-words/549298/29 "2010-08-06T04:18:03Z")
I think “one hundred **and** two” is standard in all flavours of English outside North America. Nobody has talked about punctuation. If I were writing out a large number it would be, e.g., “one million, four hundred and twenty-seven thousand, six hundred and twenty-eight point four two”. I’ve never heard a number shown as a decimal read or pronounced as a fraction. Those who follow this practice - would you render 4102.5 with “. . . and five-tenths” or “. . . and a half”? What about .25? Or .2? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-writing-numbers-as-words/549298/30 "2010-08-06T11:32:54Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > There is an excellent reason for not writing numbers with “and”: numbers written in series. Consider the relative clarity of the following: > > “Examples of perfect squares are sixteen, eighty-one, one hundred twenty-five, and one hundred forty-four.” > > “Examples of perfect squares are sixteen, eighty-one, one hundred and twenty-five, and one hundred and forty-four.” It is your first example that causes me to double-take as I’m expecting the word “and” between “one hundred” and “twenty five”. It is the same, to me, as if you asked “do want drink?” My point being that it causes _you_ to double take because it is not what _you_ expect and it’s not what you expect because that’s not how you do it in North America. It’s a circular argument. As far as _speaking_ this kind of series it’s not a big problem because you don’t really say “one hundred and twenty five” you say “one hundred ‘n’ twenty five” which distinguishes it from any other "and"s in the sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-writing-numbers-as-words/549298/31 "2010-08-06T14:05:46Z")
> [@Apollyon](#): > > There are times you – well, maybe not _you_ personally – would read the last part of 4102.3 as “three tenths”? Would 0.35 get read as “zero and thirty-five hundredths”? Is this a US practice? (WAG – it sounds a bit like an imperial to metric transition sort of thing). No, I wouldn’t. As I said in the quoted text: [quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:24, topic:549298”] Although I would say “four thousand one hundred two point three” and not have the word “and” in the number at all. [/QUOTE] The “and three tenths” structure is a math class kind of thing, not a real life kind of thing. My main objections to putting “and” in numbers: 1. It adds unnecessary words. “Two thousand two” is shorter than “Two thousand and two,” and the “and” adds absolutely nothing. 2. It’s ambiguous. “Two thousand and two” could mean 2002, or it could mean 2000 (one number) and 2 (another number). 3. To my ears, it’s awkward. I understand that’s a personal and regional thing, unlike the first two objections. ---
**Author:** ![qpw3141](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/6bbea6/32.png) [@qpw3141](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qpw3141)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-writing-numbers-as-words/549298/32 "2010-08-06T14:21:42Z")
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:31, topic:549298”] 1. It adds unnecessary words. “Two thousand two” is shorter than “Two thousand and two,” and the “and” adds absolutely nothing. [/quote] You could say that about a lot of words used to make English sentences. > [@](#): > > 1. It’s ambiguous. “Two thousand and two” could mean 2002, or it could mean 2000 (one number) and 2 (another number). To anyone used to the ‘and’ structure that’s **exactly** the problem with omitting it. ‘Two thousand two’ sounds like two distinct numbers - there’s nothing linking them. > [@](#): > > 1. To my ears, it’s awkward. I understand that’s a personal and regional thing, unlike the first two objections. Quite. To my ears, people omitting the ‘and’ always sound slightly out of breath. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-writing-numbers-as-words/549298/33 "2010-08-06T14:34:27Z")
To get back to the hijack, there are three kinds of people – those who can count, and those who cannot. ---
**Author:** ![qpw3141](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/6bbea6/32.png) [@qpw3141](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qpw3141)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-writing-numbers-as-words/549298/34 "2010-08-06T14:56:55Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > To get back to the hijack, there are three kinds of people – those who can count, and those who cannot. On a similar tack: Q: How many Intel Pentiums does it take to change a lightbulb? A: Three. One to hold the ladder and one to swap the bulb. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-writing-numbers-as-words/549298/35 "2010-08-06T14:57:44Z")
Only bad people use “and” in numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-writing-numbers-as-words/549298/36 "2010-08-06T14:59:14Z")
Bad is good. ---
**Author:** ![qpw3141](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/6bbea6/32.png) [@qpw3141](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qpw3141)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-writing-numbers-as-words/549298/37 "2010-08-06T14:59:58Z")
Good is the new Bad. ---
**Author:** ![qazwart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/5fc32e/32.png) [@qazwart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qazwart)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-writing-numbers-as-words/549298/38 "2010-08-06T15:24:50Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > I did try to google this with not much success. Take the number > 3,486,421 > it would be written as ‘three million four hundred and eighty six thousand four hundred and twenty one’ right? Would the number > 7,145,071 > be written ‘seven million one hundred and forty five thousand seventy one’ (it’s the 0 in the hundred place that has me confused). Finally, how would you write out > 365,865,012,159,983? and > 365,865,312,159,983? > Thanks A few issues: I personally leave off the _ands_, but that’s a personal preference. There is no standardization when you use them and people just use them where they feel they sound better. - Three million, four hundred eighty six thousand, four hundred twenty one. - Seven million, one hundred forty five thousand, seventy one. As for the bigger numbers, you’ve got some controversy there. Americans use the groups of threes rules. After 999 something, you go to the next one up.[but the rest of the world doesn’t follow this rule](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_large_numbers#The_.22standard_dictionary_numbers.22). To me 1,000,000,000 is a billion, but to many Europeans, it is a thousand million. I believe the British have adapted that 1,000,000,000 is a billion, but they still call 1,000,000,000,000 a thousand billion rather than a trillion. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-writing-numbers-as-words/549298/39 "2010-08-06T16:51:54Z")
Most Americans also use “and” in stating numbers. Only when you ask them about it do they deny it. > [@friedo](#): > > > [@These are my own pants](#): > > > > **and** seventy one > > The “and” depends entirely on style. Most American styles would omit the “and.” Also, “seventy-one” must be hyphenated. That hyphen is also a matter of style. The stylebooks I use say don’t use hyphens after a number ending in the letter _Y_. ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-writing-numbers-as-words/549298/40 "2010-08-06T17:20:58Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > Oh, and shit, it should have been “sixteen”. Yeah, I was wondering why I didn’t get the joke . . . 😕 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-writing-numbers-as-words/549298.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-with-writing-numbers-as-words/549298.md?page=3)