# Helped a 9 y.o. get an abortion? That's an excommunication (RO) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 5, 2009, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452 "2009-03-05T23:11:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Man\_from\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Man\_from\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Man_from_Mars)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452/41 "2009-03-06T06:22:34Z")
> [@Seven](#): > > People join a God club, don’t play by the rules and get kicked out. I don’t see the problem here. The problem is that this “God club” is very influential and considers interfering into the affairs of others its moral obligation and condemns anyone who disagrees as not worthy of so many good things. To a secular person who can think for himself, the threat of excommunication won’t mean shit, but to a religious person, it poses a dilemma. This is very unfortunate because more people should just tell these pious blowhards to fuck off in situations like this and that having an opinion for oneself is a good thing, while the persistent threat of this or that is really nothing more than bullying so they can have their way. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452/42 "2009-03-06T06:51:12Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > The Bishops were simply following a long-standing rule. > [This link has all the necessary info.](http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/Abortio2.htm) > > You may now return to your regular (and repetitively unimaginative) Catholic-bashing. Well ,if its a long standing rule ,it must be OK. Let a 9 year old die . Wouldn’t want to break a rule would we. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452/43 "2009-03-06T10:37:12Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > If you’re planning on turning this thread into yet another abortion thread more power to you. Actually, no. See, if you were a normal, literate person, you’d note that I specifically ceded the argument that abortion is immoral, thereby side stepping that entire debate. One does not have to support abortion on demand to find the Catholic doctrine as applied to this particular case reprehensible. > [@](#): > > Thanks for calling me an asshole, I’m sure mentioning it reminds you of the pleasure you get from it when you get fisted by stray dogs. Funny thing about that - you can’t actually get fisted by something that can’t make a fist. So your insult here, like virtually everything you’ve ever posted to this board, doesn’t really make any sense. > [@](#): > > \*“Hey did you see that? Steve just punched that guy for no reason! What an asshole!” > > “Oh, well you have to put it in context. See, the guy was wearing a red hat filled with explosives and ready to set them off. Steve has been punching people who wear red hats filled with explosives and ready to set them off for the last 20 years. It’s part of his religious beliefs, which we must respect” > > “Well, that explains everything. I’m sorry I called Steve an asshole. Thanks for educating me.”\* Do you have any idea how badly you suck at analogies? Points for being consistent, though: you seem to suck at just about everything else, too. > [@](#): > > I didn’t say you have to respect it, please hate it, despise, tear it to pieces, simply do it knowing what you’re talking about…or not, whatever gets you through the night. Still waiting for you to show where anyone here is arguing from ignorance. > [@](#): > > If the sign in the door says “we punch red-hatted people who enter” feel free not to enter. Last time I checked, the vast majority of Catholics were born into that religion. So, once again, you’ve managed to create an analogy that fails on just about every level. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452/44 "2009-03-06T12:02:57Z")
> [@Seven](#): > > People join a God club, don’t play by the rules and get kicked out. I don’t see the problem here. I wanna start my own GOD CLUB! Ok, sorta. But really, I just want the tax-free status. God Club. That’s gold. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452/45 "2009-03-06T12:31:48Z")
Nothing to see here, info had already been provided. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452/46 "2009-03-06T12:33:24Z")
The First Rule of God Club: Talk about God Club to eeeeeeeeeveryone… ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452/47 "2009-03-06T13:59:46Z")
> [@Tony](#): > > The problem is that this “God club” is very influential and considers interfering into the affairs of others its moral obligation and condemns anyone who disagrees as not worthy of so many good things. To a secular person who can think for himself, the threat of excommunication won’t mean shit, but to a religious person, it poses a dilemma. This is very unfortunate because more people should just tell these pious blowhards to fuck off in situations like this and that having an opinion for oneself is a good thing, while the persistent threat of this or that is really nothing more than bullying so they can have their way. You are looking at this backwards. It is a good thing for people to leave the Catholic church. In the long run it doesn’t matter a whole lot if they leave on their own or get kicked out for some rule violation. In fact, a lot of the people who are kicked out would never leave on their own, so they are benefitting. We can hope they reflect on the arbitrariness and moral bankruptcy of the church’s actions and stay away. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452/48 "2009-03-06T14:08:57Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > “Hey did you see that? Steve just punched that guy for no reason! What an asshole!” > > “Oh, well you have to put it in context. See, the guy was wearing a red hat filled with explosives and ready to set them off. Steve has been punching people who wear red hats filled with explosives and ready to set them off for the last 20 years. It’s part of his religious beliefs, which we must respect” > > “Well, that explains everything. I’m sorry I called Steve an asshole. Thanks for educating me.”\* > > If the sign in the door says “we punch red-hatted people who enter” feel free not to enter. Like others, I am utterly at a loss to figure out how you equate a guy in a hat with explosives ready to go off with a nine year old girl who has been raped by her father. But I’m going to stop trying to parse through that analogy and just let it slide. I want to spend my time on this: “If the sign in the door says ‘we punch red-hatted people who enter’ feel free not to enter.” We’re not entering. We’re standing as far away from the door as possible. But, again, in this case “red-hatted people” are “people who help save the life of a nine-year old victim of rape by incest.” You get that? If I tried, I couldn’t come up with a more ridiculous, off the wall, strawman like argument against the Catholic Church as the true story provided to me in this thread. It is so mind bogglingly out there, if someone had posed it last year as a philisophical hypothetical in Great Debates, they’d have been pitted themselves for what amounts to emotional pornography. But it did happen. By making that analogy, as weak-assed as it is, you’re literally saying “If you don’t like a religion that condones the excommunication of those that helped save the life of an innocent girl raped by her father, well, I guess you don’t have to join. You knew the rules before you entered the room.” As if that justifies everything. Yeah, I’m not going to join. I don’t think we have any cause to worry about that. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452/49 "2009-03-06T14:15:51Z")
I’m sure most Catholics would think it’s better for the 9 year old to carry the twins to term, hoping for a miracle, and if it kills her, she’ll go straight to heaven. But abortion sends her straight to hell. ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452/50 "2009-03-06T15:31:29Z")
Remember, guys, god loves you and has a plan for you. If god’s plan includes getting impregnated by your rapist father at the age of 9 and then everyone around you being kicked out of their religion for providing a medically-necessary procedure, well, then that’s just god’s will and you’d best just bend over and take it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452/51 "2009-03-06T15:35:21Z")
> [@Shawn1767](#): > > Does anyone else picture excommunication being like the discommendation ritual for Klingons? Now I’m wondering if a nine-year-old gets a Church-appointed Cha’dich. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452/52 "2009-03-06T17:09:27Z")
The God of the Bible is many things but one thing He is not is “nice”. Even in the NT, the closer you are to God the more likely you are to suffer a really unpleasant death. Which is fine if your end goal is located in the afterlife but not much fun in the meantime. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452/53 "2009-03-06T17:21:37Z")
> [@An\_Arky](#): > > Yeah, it struck me last week on Ash Wednesday (which was my birthday, unfortunately) that all these people walking around with smudges on their foreheads, every single fucking one of them, is responsible for this (the latest in an interminably long line of similar travesties) along with the coddling of pedophile priests and the bilking of untold millions of gut-wrenchingly poor people to finance their gold-plated chicanery. But they are so righteous, because they gave up chocolate for Lent. Does that cloak of self-righteousness help keep you clean when you’re painting with that enormous brush? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452/54 "2009-03-06T18:15:17Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > The First Rule of God Club: Talk about God Club to eeeeeeeeeveryone… _ **Jesus:** _ Now answer me, why do people think that I’m you? _ **The LORD:** _ I think you know. _ **Jesus:** _ No, I don’t. _ **The LORD:** _ Yes, you do. Why would anyone possibly confuse you with me? \*\*\*Jesus: \*\*\* Uh… I… I don’t know. _ **The LORD:** _ You got it. _ **Jesus:** _ No. _ **The LORD:** _ Say it. _ **Jesus:** _ Because… _ **The LORD:** _ Say it. _ **Jesus:** _ Because we’re the same person. \*\*\*The LORD: \*\*\* That’s right. All the ways you wish you could be, that’s me. I create like you wanna create, I smite like you wanna smite, I am angry, jealous, and most importantly, I am one wrathful omnipotent motherfucker in all the ways you are not. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452/55 "2009-03-06T18:19:07Z")
> [@Jayn\_Newell](#): > > Every once in a while I start to think that maybe I need to go to church more often. > > Then a story like this comes along. Pretty much the same here. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452/56 "2009-03-06T18:20:35Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > I keep trying to tell people that _my_ KKK chapter adopts highways and runs soup kitchens, but they never listen! > > I am honestly having trouble coming up with something the Catholic Church could do that would bring it down. Holocaust denial, witch burning, keeping child rapists in business… what could they possibly do to have everyone say ‘You know what? I’m tired of tithing my minimum wage and getting knocked up every time I have sex. Unless you want to send me some art form the Vatican, I’m getting out.’? Some of us did bail out. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Weird\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@The\_Weird\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Weird_One)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452/57 "2009-03-06T18:27:04Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > The Bishops were simply following a long-standing rule. > [This link has all the necessary info.](http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/Abortio2.htm) > > You may now return to your regular (and repetitively unimaginative) Catholic-bashing. From your link: > [@](#): > > NOTE WELL To actually incur the excommunication one must know that it is an excommunicable offense at the time of the abortion. Canon 1323 provides that the following do not incur a sanction, those who are not yet 16, are unaware of a law, do not advert to it or are in error about its scope, were forced or had an unforeseeable accident, **acted out of grave fear,** or who lacked the use of reason (except culpably, as by drunkenness). Thus a woman forced by an abusive husband to have an abortion would not incur an excommunication, for instance, whereas someone culpably under the influence of drugs or alcohol would (canon 1325). (bolding mine) How are the people involved in this abortion not acting out of grave fear for the life of the child-mother? This isn’t just the church sticking to their rule and refusing to make an exception for a special case, they’re choosing not to use an already available exception written into that very rule. They’re willfully making a terrible situation even worse by adding to the mental and emotion stress of the poor girl’s mother. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452/58 "2009-03-06T18:29:44Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > \*\*\*The LORD: \*\*\* That’s right. All the ways you wish you could be, that’s me. I create like you wanna create, I smite like you wanna smite, I am angry, jealous, and most importantly, I am one wrathful omnipotent motherfucker in all the ways you are not. Okay, this made me laugh a lot. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452/59 "2009-03-06T18:54:03Z")
> [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > Does that cloak of self-righteousness help keep you clean when you’re painting with that enormous brush? Actually, I used a narrower brush than necessary, as I only pointed out the smudgies. There’s millions more who are every bit as culpable. And it really doesn’t take much self-righteousness at all to be appalled by the actions/inactions of the RCCs officials and the millions of folks who provide approval and support of such actions/inactions. Sorry if you don’t like that, but until they change, they deserve no slack. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452/60 "2009-03-06T18:54:05Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by **Ají de Gallina** > > Thanks for calling me an asshole, I’m sure mentioning it reminds you of the pleasure you get from it when you get fisted by stray dogs. > > Funny thing about that - you can’t actually get fisted by something that can’t make a fist. So your insult here, like virtually everything you’ve ever posted to this board, doesn’t really make any sense. **Miller** , thanks for taking care of the nitpick about fisting. It was really bothering me, the whole “no opposable thumbs” routine. Also, it leaves me free to deal with this: > [@begbert2](#): > > Isn’t it a fundamental tenant of most religions that if somebody else tells you to do it, you don’t bear any responsibility for your own actions? We heretics need to be reminded of that, lest we mistakenly think that personal responsibility exists. **Begbert2** , come over here for a minute, I want to discuss something with you. **TENET!** Thanks a lot, eh? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452.md?page=4)