# Helped a 9 y.o. get an abortion? That's an excommunication (RO) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 5, 2009, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452 "2009-03-05T23:11:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452/61 "2009-03-06T19:18:20Z")
> [@vdgg81](#): > > Hi. I won’t be commenting on the whole catholicism discussion in progress here, to which I’m largely indifferent, but I’d like to clarify a small point in the OP. > > [snip] Thanks. Great to have some facts. Stupid Catholic Church, things like this is why I got out before they kicked me out. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452/62 "2009-03-06T19:30:08Z")
> [@An\_Arky](#): > > Actually, I used a narrower brush than necessary, as I only pointed out the smudgies. There’s millions more who are every bit as culpable. > > And it really doesn’t take much self-righteousness at all to be appalled by the actions/inactions of the RCCs officials and the millions of folks who provide approval and support of such actions/inactions. > > Sorry if you don’t like that, but until they change, they deserve no slack. You know, I hate to sound like a weasel, but this is harsher than I really want to mean, after some thought. I do have issues with the RCCs actions and policies, but I don’t want to sound like I’ve got a hardon for them. (heh) I don’t, but this is an RO thread and I get RO-ish in them sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452/63 "2009-03-06T20:44:10Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Also, it leaves me free to deal with this: **Begbert2** , come over here for a minute, I want to discuss something with you. > **TENET!** > Thanks a lot, eh? **Thank you!!!** I’ve actually thought of getting a T-shirt or bumper sticker made that says, _ **“My religion is not for rent.”** _ ---
**Author:** ![CircleofWillis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/54ee81/32.png) [@CircleofWillis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CircleofWillis)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452/64 "2009-03-06T21:19:04Z")
A 9 yrold is raped and impregnated and the RO here is saved for the Cat’lics excommunicating them from a club most of you have nothing but utter disdain for? Could we pretty please get some motherfucking perspective up in this bitch? ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Sensitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452/65 "2009-03-06T22:05:13Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > I’m sure most Catholics would think it’s better for the 9 year old to carry the twins to term, hoping for a miracle, and if it kills her, she’ll go straight to heaven. But abortion sends her straight to hell. And I’m sure you’re a fucking moron, but hey, you keep on throwing that paint everywhere, jackass. ---
**Author:** ![Shawn1767](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shawn1767](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shawn1767)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452/66 "2009-03-06T22:48:05Z")
Are the defenders of Catholicism saying that Catholicism is a cafeteria-style religion where you get to pick and choose which things you will believe that the Catholic church believes in or what? Because, to me, if you are not believing everything a certain religion teaches, then you really can’t be part of that religion. What’s the point of having a religion then? I mean if a religion teaches that if you have an abortion, you’re going to hell, you can’t really say well, “I’m a Catholic, but I don’t believe that.” Otherwise, anyone can pick and choose what they want to believe and have it be just as valid as anyone else. Which leads me to my conclusion again: What’s the point in having a religion if you’re just going to make up your own beliefs and rules? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452/67 "2009-03-06T22:51:12Z")
> [@Darth\_Sensitive](#): > > And I’m sure you’re a fucking moron, but hey, you keep on throwing that paint everywhere, jackass. No, no. A fucking moron would have ignored the fact that no 9-year-old rape victims were excommunicated in this horrible incident, whereas… Oh, right. Excuse me. ---
**Author:** ![Shawn1767](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shawn1767](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shawn1767)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452/68 "2009-03-06T23:04:04Z")
Hmm.. according to [Catholic.com](http://Catholic.com), in order to get off the hook for abortion, all you have to do is confess. > [@](#): > > Thus, in 1995 Pope John Paul II declared that the Church’s teaching on abortion “is unchanged and unchangeable. Therefore, by the authority which Christ conferred upon Peter and his successors . . . I declare that direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, always constitutes a grave moral disorder, since it is the deliberate killing of an innocent human being. This doctrine is based upon the natural law and upon the written word of God, is transmitted by the Church’s tradition and taught by the ordinary and universal magisterium. No circumstance, no purpose, no law whatsoever can ever make licit an act which is intrinsically illicit, since it is contrary to the law of God which is written in every human heart, knowable by reason itself, and proclaimed by the Church” (Evangelium Vitae 62). > > The early Church Fathers agreed. Fortunately, abortion, like all sins, is forgivable; and forgiveness is as close as the nearest confessional. So, I mean, as far as this thread is concerned, I don’t understand how being excommunicated really hurts someone since it’s a make-believe ritual for a make-believe system. ---
**Author:** ![Brunhilda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cdc98d/32.png) [@Brunhilda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brunhilda)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452/69 "2009-03-06T23:26:15Z")
As one of the previous posters pointed out, the Cardinal seems to be in the wrong; if the twins will put the mother’s life in danger, then they can be aborted. The vatican should be called to investigate the cardinal’s behavior. He is actually rather far out of line with the actual doctrine of the church. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2009, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452/70 "2009-03-07T00:11:49Z")
> [@Shawn1767](#): > > So, I mean, as far as this thread is concerned, I don’t understand how being excommunicated really hurts someone since it’s a make-believe ritual for a make-believe system. Because for those who do believe in it, it is quite real. If I put a lot of value in something, regardless of whether that is true or not, as long as I believe it is and am invested in it then to have it taken away is going to seriously affect me. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2009, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452/71 "2009-03-07T00:27:11Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > The Bishops were simply following a long-standing rule. > [This link has all the necessary info.](http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/Abortio2.htm) I actually do appreciate the attempt to dispel a little ignorance. Because in response to this story I, a non-Catholic, wondered just what, in general, people could get excommunicated for. What counts as an excommunicable offense? Who decides who gets excommunicated? How does one get unexcommunicated again? I wondered about these things, partly just because the story piqued my curiosity, and partly because, yeah, this whole thing is fucked up, but if I knew the answers to those questions, I’d be better able to judge whether the excommunication part is just a little fucked up, or way way fucked up; and I’d be better able to judge where the fucked-uppedness lies: in the excommunication rules of the Church, or in the way they had been applied (possibly inappropriately) in this case, or both? ---
**Author:** ![Dog80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@Dog80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dog80)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2009, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452/72 "2009-03-07T00:39:41Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > So does the Catholic Church also make a practice of excommunicating rapists and child abusers? You the priests to excommunicate themselves? ---
**Author:** ![Nicolas\_Bourbaki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecc23a/32.png) [@Nicolas\_Bourbaki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nicolas_Bourbaki)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2009, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452/73 "2009-03-07T01:01:58Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > “Hey did you see that? Steve just punched that guy for no reason! What an asshole!” > > “Oh, well you have to put it in context. See, the guy was wearing a red hat filled with explosives and ready to set them off. Steve has been punching people who wear red hats filled with explosives and ready to set them off for the last 20 years. It’s part of his religious beliefs, which we must respect” > > “Well, that explains everything. I’m sorry I called Steve an asshole. Thanks for educating me.” > > I didn’t say you have to respect it, please hate it, despise, tear it to pieces, simply do it knowing what you’re talking about…or not, whatever gets you through the night. > If the sign in the door says “we punch red-hatted people who enter” feel free not to enter. My god, it’s unpossibly terrible. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Sensitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2009, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452/74 "2009-03-07T07:37:43Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > No, no. A fucking moron would have ignored the fact that no 9-year-old rape victims were excommunicated in this horrible incident, whereas… > > Oh, right. Excuse me. Did I ignore that fact? No. Up yours. Did the person I quoted paint Catholics with an absurdly large brush and ascribe ideas to them that nobody I know (or have even found being serious on the internet) holds? Yes. We’re supposed to be fighting ignorance, not spreading it. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2009, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452/75 "2009-03-07T15:54:26Z")
> [@CircleofWillis](#): > > A 9 yrold is raped and impregnated and the RO here is saved for the Cat’lics excommunicating them from a club most of you have nothing but utter disdain for? > > Could we pretty please get some motherfucking perspective up in this bitch? I’ve been full up on outrage for the former as soon as I read about it. I can’t imagine how anyone’s reaction could differ from my own (except maybe that one dude who posted a while back about how ‘mature’ is underage, potential girlfriend was…) I just thought it was fantastic that this girl is going to grow up to learn how her family and the doctors who saved her did something wrong by helping her live. And that her dad, well, didn’t (unless I’m wrong and he’s been booted, too). Honestly, to me, getting excommunicated seems like the best thing that could happen to someone. But I didn’t grow up that way or in that sort of society. ---
**Author:** ![CircleofWillis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/54ee81/32.png) [@CircleofWillis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CircleofWillis)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2009, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452/76 "2009-03-07T19:56:01Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > I’ve been full up on outrage for the former as soon as I read about it. I can’t imagine how anyone’s reaction could differ from my own (except maybe that one dude who posted a while back about how ‘mature’ is underage, potential girlfriend was…) Except your OP and OP title gives no indication of this, the only real mention of the girl’s situation is the set up for the moral indignation of the OP’s title and is presented as if it were half price carrots in the Costco ad… > [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > So as you may already know by now, a 9-year-old Brazilian girl became pregnant with twins after being (‘allegedly’) raped by her father. …\*\*\*\* I know that, as a general broad-brush rule, this board has a hard-on for Catholics, Christianity .. and pretty much religion of any sort.. but damn.. can we keep in perspective the REAL issue here? And not for nothing, but calling moral indignation out on the Catholics for their interpretation of ridiculous antediluvian rules is like playing basketball with a retard and calling him for double dribble… some shit ya gotta let slide. (Chris Rock,Bigger and Blacker, Chris Rock Enterprises, 1996)\* - - for appropriate source citation ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2009, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452/77 "2009-03-08T03:41:44Z")
> [@CircleofWillis](#): > > And not for nothing, but calling moral indignation out on the Catholics for their interpretation of ridiculous antediluvian rules is like playing basketball with a retard and calling him for double dribble… some shit ya gotta let slide. No we don’t. So long as the Catholic Church is trying to prevent ALL of us (not just Catholics) from having access to abortions or, for that matter, birth control, we’re not letting any damn thing they do slide. They want some slack, they better damn well get out of our faces. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2009, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452/78 "2009-03-08T04:11:57Z")
> [@Darth\_Sensitive](#): > > Did I ignore that fact? No. Up yours. > > Did the person I quoted paint Catholics with an absurdly large brush and ascribe ideas to them that nobody I know (or have even found being serious on the internet) holds? Yes. We’re supposed to be fighting ignorance, not spreading it. Err, she’s agreeing with you that the person you quoted was a fucking moron (since the logic involved only makes a shred of sense if the nine-year-old was the one excommunicated). ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2009, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452/79 "2009-03-08T06:02:13Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > I just thought it was fantastic that this girl is going to grow up to learn how her family and the doctors who saved her did something wrong by helping her live. **And that her dad, well, didn’t (unless I’m wrong and he’s been booted, too)**. No, he didn’t. [Vatican defends Brazil excommunication](http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/world/5375029/vatican-defends-brazil-excommunication/) > [@](#): > > A senior Vatican cleric has defended the excommunication of the mother and doctors of a nine-year-old girl who had an abortion in Brazil after being raped. > > Cardinal Giovanni Battista Re, head of the Catholic church’s Congregation for Bishops, told the daily La Stampa on Saturday that the twins the girl had been carrying had a right to live. > > “It is a sad case but the real problem is that the twins conceived were two innocent persons, who had the right to live and could not be eliminated,” he said. > > Re, who also heads the Pontifical Commission for Latin America, added: “Life must always be protected, the attack on the Brazilian church is unjustified.” > > … > > **He also said the accused stepfather would not be expelled from the church. Although the man allegedly committed “a heinous crime … the abortion - the elimination of an innocent life - was more serious”.** Right. > [@](#): > > … > > \*\*Officials said she told them she had suffered sexual abuse by her stepfather since the age of six. > > Police said the 23-year-old stepfather also allegedly sexually abused the girl’s physically handicapped 14-year-old sister.\*\* > > … But then, they don’t mind pedophiles in the Catholic Church, so why should we be surprised at this? One of the doctors is going to attend mass anyway. > [@](#): > > … > > One of the doctors involved in the abortion, Rivaldo Albuquerque, told Globo television that he would keep going to mass, regardless of the archbishop’s order. > > “The people want a church full of forgiveness, love and mercy,” he said. > > … Oh, and in other news… > [@](#): > > … > > The website of the news group Globo reported that another girl, aged 11, had been found to be seven months pregnant following alleged sexual abuse at the hands of her adoptive father. > > The girl has said she does not intend to seek an abortion, according to reports. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2009, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452/80 "2009-03-08T09:00:47Z")
So the fact that the stepfather violating his stepdaughter resulted in said pregnancy which necessitated an abortion…that doesn’t register for the Catholic Church? Even a little? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helped-a-9-y-o-get-an-abortion-thats-an-excommunication-ro/488452.md?page=5)