# Hen and a half, bah! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [August 9, 2006, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hen-and-a-half-bah/368004 "2006-08-09T14:26:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hen-and-a-half-bah/368004/21 "2006-08-11T23:34:34Z")
[QUOTE=The Flying Dutchman] So what. Cecil is not the final arbiter of someone elses question [/QUOTE] Well, he has to make some interpretation decisions in order to answer the question. For one thing, the question says “If a **chicken** and a half can lay an egg and a half in a day and a half, how many **hens** to lay six eggs in six days?” So a correct answer, I guess, would be that information about chickens don’t tell us anything about hens. But that is not very interesting. It is better to interpret the question in a way in which it makes sense. Your objection, as I see it, is that the question cannot be in half chickens. But if the question can be phrased in half chickens, then surely the answer can too? If you don’t want to allow fractions, then no amount of chickens can lay “half an egg”. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2006, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hen-and-a-half-bah/368004/22 "2006-08-12T12:30:27Z")
Obviously, the original was: “If a chicken and a calf can lay an egg, and a half a day…” It’s just got transformed over the centuries by scribal errors. I also presume that you don’t like a joke such as “Why did the chicken cross the road?” since chickens can’t hold crayons and therefore can’t make crosses anywhere, on road or on paper? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2006, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hen-and-a-half-bah/368004/23 "2006-08-12T13:00:23Z")
Silly humour is a tactic employed by those who don’t want to admit they are wrong. Lets review the question. If a chicken and a half can lay an egg and a half in a day and a half, how many hens to lay six eggs in six days? The question can be rephrased without changing the values as follows. If a chicken can lay an egg in a day and a half, how many hens to lay six eggs in six days? All I did was simplify the ratio. 1.5/1.5 equals 1/1 which equals 1 . As pointed out before, it is perfectly valid to express ratios in any number of ways as long as one applies a common factor such as 1000 for 1500 chickens laying 1500 eggs in a day and a half. Just because the ratio in the original question expresses half chickens and half eggs does not validate the concept of half chickens or half eggs on their own. ---
**Author:** ![Alex\_Dubinsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dbc845/32.png) [@Alex\_Dubinsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alex_Dubinsky)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2006, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hen-and-a-half-bah/368004/24 "2006-08-12T13:04:20Z")
> [@](#): > > For one thing, the question says “If a chicken and a half can lay an egg and a half in a day and a half, how many hens to lay six eggs in six days?” > > So a correct answer, I guess, would be that information about chickens don’t tell us anything about hens. But that is not very interesting. It is better to interpret the question in a way in which it makes sense. Your objection, as I see it, is that the question cannot be in half chickens. But if the question can be phrased in half chickens, then surely the answer can too? If you don’t want to allow fractions, then no amount of chickens can lay “half an egg”. Whoa, and I had given up hope on finding an elegant way out for the “you need two chickens” vs "i dun like yer smart assin’ " debate. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2006, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hen-and-a-half-bah/368004/25 "2006-08-12T13:41:27Z")
[QUOTE=C K Dexter Haven] Obviously, the original was: “If a chicken and a calf can lay an egg, and a half a day…” It’s just got transformed over the centuries by scribal errors. I also presume that you don’t like a joke such as “Why did the chicken cross the road?” since chickens can’t hold crayons and therefore can’t make crosses anywhere, on road or on paper? [/QUOTE] I think you misunderstand my intentions. I’m on Cecil’s side. I indeed think it would be silly to answer the way I suggested. It is meant to illustrate that Cecil should work as the “arbiter” of the question. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2006, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hen-and-a-half-bah/368004/26 "2006-08-12T20:41:56Z")
[QUOTE=The Flying Dutchman] Silly humour is a tactic employed by those who don’t want to admit they are wrong. Lets review the question. If a chicken and a half can lay an egg and a half in a day and a half, how many hens to lay six eggs in six days? The question can be rephrased without changing the values as follows. If a chicken can lay an egg in a day and a half, how many hens to lay six eggs in six days? All I did was simplify the ratio. 1.5/1.5 equals 1/1 which equals 1 . As pointed out before, it is perfectly valid to express ratios in any number of ways as long as one applies a common factor such as 1000 for 1500 chickens laying 1500 eggs in a day and a half. Just because the ratio in the original question expresses half chickens and half eggs does not validate the concept of half chickens or half eggs on their own. [/QUOTE] If you are going to suggest that you must have an answer in whole chickens, you should, one presume, be forced to round the eggs, too, because no chicken can lay a half-egg. Therefore, the whole ratio has to be changed; the riddle becomes one about two hens laying two eggs in a day and a half (we CAN have half days). All of which is simply pointlessly insistent upon a literal reading of the situation. Insisting upon such an answer simply shows an unyielding insistence upon strict meaning without reference to actual intent; you should apply to be appointed to the current Supreme Court with that attitude. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2006, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hen-and-a-half-bah/368004/27 "2006-08-13T00:15:52Z")
[QUOTE=DSYoungEsq] Insisting upon such an answer simply shows an unyielding insistence upon strict meaning without reference to actual intent; you should apply to be appointed to the current Supreme Court with that attitude. [/QUOTE] Uuuh, that’s satire. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2006, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hen-and-a-half-bah/368004/28 "2006-08-13T00:47:35Z")
A **ratio** nal mind can easily comprehend the question in terms of half chickens vs half eggs. A reasonable mind cannot accept that half a chicken can produce an egg never mind half an egg. **C K Dexter Haven** , I followed the appropriate channel outside of the SDMB to contact Cecil regarding this question and instead you intercepted my e-mail. Given that we already don’t see eye to eye on this problem, it just isn’t fair for you to cut me off from the master. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2006, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hen-and-a-half-bah/368004/29 "2006-08-13T00:58:19Z")
[QUOTE=DSYoungEsq] If you are going to suggest that you must have an answer in whole chickens, you should, one presume, be forced to round the eggs, too, because no chicken can lay a half-egg. Therefore, the whole ratio has to be changed; the riddle becomes one about two hens laying two eggs in a day and a half (we CAN have half days). [/QUOTE] Forced? No one is changing a ratio. Seriously, the above statement makes absolutely no sense at all. Just in case you can comprehend. One and a half eggs per one and a half chickens is the same ratio as One egg per one chicken is the same ratio as Two eggs per two chickens. Need I go on? ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2006, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hen-and-a-half-bah/368004/30 "2006-08-13T01:17:50Z")
Sorry, **Flying Dutchman** , but one of my main staff jobs is going through Cecil’s mail, to separate the grain from the chaff. Cecil doesn’t want to be bothered with the huge inflow of mail, he just wants to see the questions that might be of interest for a new column. He does sometimes look at mail that’s a follow-up to a prior column, but that’s pretty rare. He just doesn’t seem to be very interested in re-visiting old columns without some compelling reason. And “here’s a different interpretation of a riddle” isn’t what he’d call a compelling reason. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2006, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hen-and-a-half-bah/368004/31 "2006-08-13T02:56:00Z")
[QUOTE=Cervaise] The mathematician studies the problem, and says, “First, assume the cow is a sphere.” [/QUOTE] Thus solving the problem of cow tipping once and for all… 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Alex\_Dubinsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dbc845/32.png) [@Alex\_Dubinsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alex_Dubinsky)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2006, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hen-and-a-half-bah/368004/32 "2006-08-13T06:07:23Z")
> [@](#): > > Cecil doesn’t want to be bothered with the huge inflow of mail, he just wants to see the questions that might be of interest for a new column. He does sometimes look at mail that’s a follow-up to a prior column, but that’s pretty rare. He just doesn’t seem to be very interested in re-visiting old columns without some compelling reason. pst, i see how it is. _begins listening to the song Stan_ ---
**Author:** ![Justins\_baby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e36b37/32.png) [@Justins\_baby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justins_baby)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2006, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hen-and-a-half-bah/368004/33 "2006-08-13T06:58:51Z")
I thought a hen was a female chicken? And why the hell am I stressing over this question? This question makes no sence at all. “if a chicken and a half can lay an egg and a half in a day and a half, then how many hens can lay 6 eggs in 6 days?” Ok… growing up on a chicken farm proves that hens can lay more than one egg in a days time. And hens can lay eggs every day. So the answer to “how many hens can lay 6 eggs in 6 days” is one hen. Also, a half a chicken is a dead chicken… which is also, to me,is called dinner. So the part of the question “If a chicken and a half can lay an egg and a half in a day in a half” has no relivant answer to the actual question that is being asked. Because and dead chicken cant lay an egg. ---
**Author:** ![Alex\_Dubinsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dbc845/32.png) [@Alex\_Dubinsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alex_Dubinsky)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2006, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hen-and-a-half-bah/368004/34 "2006-08-13T07:15:30Z")
ahh… progress. ok, through the labors of our scholars, we have come closer to discerning the meaning of the riddle: If a male-or-female chicken plus half a rotissery dinner were to lay one egg in the first day and get another egg halfway out of its ass by noon of the second, how many female chickens would it take for six eggs to be laid over six days. My answer: two chickens. One hen to do the laying, and one rooster to do the… ahem… laying. I know, i know, lame and unscientific. But it reminds me of another joke. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Answer: the one who’s asleep. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2006, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hen-and-a-half-bah/368004/35 "2006-08-13T07:16:22Z")
Batting averages are mentioned quite often in major league baseball. Let’s suppose someone has a .323 batting average. I’ve never heard of any baseball fans having a problem with this. They don’t say “how can someone possibly get 323 / 1000 of a hit?” Yet, when it comes to chickens, people seem to have problems with this concept. (I’m beginning to feel that this is going to be the new .999… doesn’t equal 1 debate.) ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2006, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hen-and-a-half-bah/368004/36 "2006-08-13T07:24:30Z")
[QUOTE=wolf\_meister] They don’t say “how can someone possibly get 323 / 1000 of a hit?” [/QUOTE] Fowl tip? [sub]I’m so very, very sorry…[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2006, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hen-and-a-half-bah/368004/37 "2006-08-19T11:02:44Z")
[QUOTE=C K Dexter Haven] Obviously, the original was: “If a chicken and a calf can lay an egg, and a half a day…” It’s just got transformed over the centuries by scribal errors. I also presume that you don’t like a joke such as “Why did the chicken cross the road?” since chickens can’t hold crayons and therefore can’t make crosses anywhere, on road or on paper? [/QUOTE] Ooh, ooh. I just made up a joke. Q: Why did Jesus cross the road? A: Jesus didn’t cross the road, he rode the cross. is that original? ---
**Author:** ![aroyfaderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8797f3/32.png) [@aroyfaderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aroyfaderman)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2006, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hen-and-a-half-bah/368004/38 "2006-08-21T21:03:19Z")
I’m fully with the “half a chicken?” people. “You get, on average, 1.5 eggs per 1.5 chickens” _might_ be a legitimate (though bizarre) way of expressing a 1:1 ratio, but “1.5 chickens can lay 1.5 eggs,” by itself, _does not mean that_. So, here’s my attempt to answer the question: We’re given that 1.5 chickens can lay 1.5 eggs in 1.5 days. We start by noticing two things: 1. It implies that 1 chicken can lay 1.5 eggs in 1.5 days. That’s because the half chicken is not contributing to the egg-laying, being dead. 2. It implies that 1 chicken can lay 2 eggs in just over 1.5 days. That’s because, once you’ve got half an egg out, it really only takes a few extra seconds to get out that other half. So, 1 chicken can lay 2 eggs in just over 1.5 days. So how many days, _on average_, does it take a chicken to lay an egg? Well, if the 2 eggs is the chicken’s “personal best” (suggested by “can”), it was probably accomplished by laying one egg at the _start_ of the period, and starting the second egg just before the _end_ of the period. So that’s generally 1 egg in just under 1.5 days. So it would take _one_ chicken just about to 7.5 days to lay 6 eggs: 1 egg per 1.5 days is 5 eggs for 7.5 days, plus an extra egg at the very end (whether the extra egg makes it in under the 7.5 day mark depends on exactly how long between the time an egg crowns and the time it drops into the nest, but one way or the other it’s pretty close). So one chicken can’t make it. But two certainly could, with some eggs to spare. Therefore, the correct answer: 2 chickens. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2006, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hen-and-a-half-bah/368004/39 "2006-08-22T03:38:17Z")
I’d give you full marks for the correct answer if I were your examiner. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hen-and-a-half-bah/368004.md?page=1)