Precisely this. He could’ve said “In light of recent discussions about sexual harassment, I’m now worried that my manner of flirting may be read as creepy by women, and I don’t wish to make them uncomfortable or offend them and right now I’m a bit unsure as to how to proceed in pursuing women without giving a bad vibe in this new social climate. I realise this means I may have to unlearn everything I’ve learned about how to interact with the opposite sex in a romantic setting and this may take some getting used to”. And yes, he would still get ripped apart by some people, but generally we would at least be able to understand where he’s coming from and know he means no harm.
Instead he went with “can’t hit on chicks anymore cause bitches be crying rape. Oh and I’m proud to be stuck in my ways”. Zero sympathy here.
Yep, I’ll admit I used to roll my eyes at men being hysterical over feminists demanding more consideration when they approach women (and I still do, like with Cavill right now) but I never really gave thought to ambiguous scenarios where neither side can properly read the other party’s intentions and both suck at communication. I was also shocked to find out how many women don’t feel empowered to speak up and think it’s a man’s job to read her mind.
Hyperbole is unnecessary when it comes to this topic, but a reasonable level of fear/uncertainty on men’s part isn’t completely unwarranted. That just means we need to really ramp up the importance of clear, unambiguous communication.
With that mustache he sported in Mission Imposible: Fallout it isn’t surprising; he looks like every sketch artists’ rendering of “Man Wanted on Suspision of Assualt”. Some men can carry off that full ‘stash look, and by “some men” I mean Tom Selleck, Sam Elliott and Kurt Russell. He just needs to shave that catapillar off and then women will go back to not hiding from his approach.
Speaking from the guy POV, it’s really pretty simple.
You don’t wait for ‘signs of rejection,’ you call a time-out *at the point where she’s not stopping you, but she seems to be less than enthusiastic about what the two of you are doing. *
Because really, once you’re into this dance, it should be both persons’ sexual excitement feeding off each other. If your partner doesn’t particularly seem to have the hots for you that you do for her, and you keep on going, it’s your bad. It’s not rape yet, it’s not sexual assault yet, but if you stop then, you won’t have to worry about its getting into that sort of territory.
And even all that legality stuff aside, if you ignore your partner’s lack of enthusiasm and desire, well, just WTF, dude?!
You know what makes this more complicated than it needs to be? Alcohol. Yet another reason why I think it does more harm than good. But our society has embraced “social drinking” to such a great extent that a lot of people feel totally lost without it, in all the social scenarios that could potentially lead to a sexual encounter.
When Chris Brown beat his girlfriend, teen girls were all over twitter posting some variation of “he can beat up my pussy anytime.” And now women are saying Cavill can rape them anytime. AsExpected
So. . . .what conclusion do you draw from this? Do you feel like this reveals something universal about people, or more specifically, women? Because I feel like you’re implying that woman generally actually like/prefer dominant, aggressive men, despite all protests to the contrary.
Dating is hard. Expectations and limits are hard. Stakes are high, especially for celebrities whose careers depend on the appearance of wholesomeness. I have some sympathy for Cavill because I am starting to get back into the dating world after a 20+ year hiatus and it’s changed. In theory for the better, but in practice it seems the flux in expectations and gender roles are hurting pretty much everyone engaging in the activity. I see tons of messages from frustrated women just wishing men would step up and initiate like they used to and from men saying they’re afraid now of being taken as a predator.
I once heard it said that racism makes black men crazy. You never know if that person treated you the way they did(ignored you at the restaurant, trashed your resume, pulled you over, etc.) because of the color of your skin or if that wasn’t a factor. There’s a spectrum of motives in human interactions. On the opposite side of the scale, privilege can make someone crazy as well. A white, rich, famous, and handsome man may view every interaction with him as skewed to the point of questioning if the consent was valid. Did she want him, or did she just go along with everything he suggested because she was star struck and he end up the subject of a web article the next day?
It all comes down to trust. Trust is hard when there’s a large power imbalance. The more self-aware men want to know their relationships are based on shared interests and personality, not gold-digging, or celebrity worship. How does it change your partner’s motives when you’re such an outlier on the socioeconomic scale? But if he wants to be able to look himself in the mirror in the morning and know that he did the right thing, it’s harder for him than it is for the typical person.
Ultimately, yes, he’ll just have to grow up and use his words. But that’s easier said than done when you live in a celebrity bubble, whether you like it or not.
I can see where he is coming from. My current girlfriend (an Episcopal Priest no less) still makes fun of me for just giving her a gentle arm pat after our first date. She said I should have tried to kiss her although she wouldn’t have done it. How confusing is that?
I have had many women reject me after a few dates because I didn’t pursue them aggressively enough and it is a fallacy to think that anyone will actually articulate what they actually want. It simply doesn’t work that way especially in the early stages. You have to have a full blown relationship before you can have those types of honest conversations.
I have tried to have the “open and honest” talk with many women and it is surprisingly hard to get anyone to actually do it.
Since it’s been over 30 years since I’ve had a date with anyone besides my wife, my dating experience is rusty, to say the least. But here’s how I played it:
First date: Unless it was clear that she wanted to do a lot more than just kiss, I didn’t try to kiss her, hug her, or anything, just a polite good-night. Figured more than that could wait until the second date, if there was one, and I usually wanted to go home and see how I felt about that. Why try to kiss someone when you’re not sure yet whether you want to see her again?
Second date: unless the evening started off better than it finished, go for the kiss, and see how things go from there. She said ‘yes’ to a second date to begin with, and if you and she clearly had a good time together on the second date, chances are she’d be disappointed if you didn’t kiss her. If she doesn’t want a kiss at the end of the second date, let it go, and don’t bother with a third date unless you like her a whole hell of a lot, and don’t get your hopes up too much then.
But considerable evidence shows that to be true of many women indeed. The vast majority of fans of Fifty Shades of Grey are women, not men. And that book was written by a woman.
And there are women who are drawn to fame - even terrible fame. There are teenage girls who adore the Columbine shooters. Nikolas Cruz got hundreds of love letters while awaiting trial for the Parkland shooting. Dzhokar Tsraenaev, Boston bomber, got lots of fan mail and there were many women crushing on him.
I’d be wary of generalizing from this. There’s a lot of women in the world, and it doesn’t take many outliers to generate stories like this about bad boys being chick magnets. 50 shades is a fantasy, and while people may dabble in fantasy, they live in reality. I’m sure if you asked men if they’d like to date the, very few, female characters in the Marvel Comics movies you’d find a lot of guys jumping at those fantasies as well.
But there’s a silent majority out there. Guys who aren’t insisting on women being unrealistic stereotypes with impossible bodies. And women who aren’t chasing wealth and arrogance.
Flashy things get human attention, that’s just inescapable, but most people understand that what makes a head turn isn’t the same thing that makes a partnership. Or they learn it over the course of a few relationships.
Also, I very much believe actions speak more than protests (by which I’m assuming you mean verbal). I have mothers, sisters, daughters, wives, girlfriends, co-workers, etc and a lot of experience dealing with people. I believe women are no better or worse than men and men certainly have behaviors/tendencies that are nothing to brag about. In almost every case I find that actions go against what people profess they like in order to be socially acceptable.
Like Shagnasty, I can identify with some of Cavill’s sentiment. I’ve read and heard many of the #metoo accusers label men as sexual predators for attempting to kiss them. This is what scares many men. Leaning in for a kiss with your date has been common practice for eons. If you get rejected, well there’s the line. You stop, you don’t keep pushing it. Doing that is, IMHO, is where the line gets crossed. The #metoo movement creates confusing messages. Do you not even attempt to lean in for that kiss on your date, lest you be accused of being a sexual predator.
Sitting down and having a conversation about whether or not you may want to be kissed beforehand, feels a bit legalistic and removes most if not all of the chemistry from the moment. And I would expect that most women would feel the same way. So taking the risk of being rejected by a turn of the head or a subtle no thank you, would seem to get the same message across.
Have women speaking on behalf of the metoo movement actually said this? I thought their whole thing was about sexual harrassment, like someone trying to kiss you or grab you at work or in public. Not on a date.
Cite? I’ve read a few of the stories, and that’s certainly not the story of Weinstein, Lauer, Spacey, Cosby, or many of the high-profile #metoo toppled men.
I admit it’s fuzzier with stories like Aziz Ansari(who is still working and doing ok) and random CEOs who got fired for having a consensual relationship with a co-worker. Then there’s just the bizarre, like sexualizing things in clearly non-romantic contexts(Al Franken pretending to touch the breasts of a sleeping soldier). That’s uncool, but if it had been an isolated incident that probably would have been the end of it.
But most of the backlash against #metoo saying it’s going too far seems to be from men who haven’t read the stories. Lauer had a remote-controlled lock installed in his office so he could literally trap women in the office with him. Women he wasn’t dating, who didn’t come to his office with any idea of a romantic relationship.
So if there’s someone throwing around #metoo regarding a guy they agreed to go on a date with being too fresh and trying to kiss them, I’m willing to see evidence of it, but so far there’s usually been some pretty strong evidence of fire when I’ve seen the #metoo smoke.