# Henry Louis Gates target of death threats, might have to move **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 5, 2009, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/henry-louis-gates-target-of-death-threats-might-have-to-move/505381 "2009-08-05T02:26:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/henry-louis-gates-target-of-death-threats-might-have-to-move/505381/61 "2009-08-06T00:09:52Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > OK LHOD, I think we are getting somewhere. Now, please apply the framework you set up to show that whether slaveowners are morally responsible for injuries incurred in slave uprisings is not meaningless. Thanks. Before I do, lemme be clear. By “we are getting somewhere,” have you conceded that “the whole concept of whether one person is ‘morally responsible’ for the actions of another” is, even though you may disagree with it, not “completely devoid of any meaning”? Because if you haven’t conceded that, we can’t continue, just as I don’t teach my students three-digit addition until they’ve mastered two-digit addition. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/henry-louis-gates-target-of-death-threats-might-have-to-move/505381/62 "2009-08-06T00:36:52Z")
That is what I’ve asked you to demonstrate. I’m not conceding what I asked you to demonstrate. By saying “we are getting somewhere,” I mean that we are getting closer to you demonstrating that. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/henry-louis-gates-target-of-death-threats-might-have-to-move/505381/63 "2009-08-06T04:34:39Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > If I get there first, I’ll save you a spot. You realize, in Hell, its always Pledge Week? By Pledge Week - does that mean: A) Drinking cheap beer while standing in my boxers while guys in Greek letters yell at me, or B) Constantly having a great arts presentation interrupted by someone asking for money? Back to the OP - I would love to see Officer Crowley offer to move in with Professor Gates to keep his new beer buddy safe. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/henry-louis-gates-target-of-death-threats-might-have-to-move/505381/64 "2009-08-06T05:10:25Z")
Make it a reality show and I’m totally in. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/henry-louis-gates-target-of-death-threats-might-have-to-move/505381/65 "2009-08-06T05:58:51Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Make it a reality show and I’m totally in. I see it as more of a Samuel Jackson/Adam Sandler vehicle. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/henry-louis-gates-target-of-death-threats-might-have-to-move/505381/66 "2009-08-06T11:18:01Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > That is what I’ve asked you to demonstrate. I’m not conceding what I asked you to demonstrate. By saying “we are getting somewhere,” I mean that we are getting closer to you demonstrating that. Great. How have I _not_ demonstrated the point in the context of “inciting to violence” crimes? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/henry-louis-gates-target-of-death-threats-might-have-to-move/505381/67 "2009-08-06T12:15:47Z")
LHOD, you were doing so well, don’t give up now! Show me the consequences, like you did with ice cream-stealin’ Jim. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/henry-louis-gates-target-of-death-threats-might-have-to-move/505381/68 "2009-08-06T12:42:02Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > You might possibly argue against the importance or relevance of the question, but asking whether slaveowners share moral responsibility for the bloodshed of slave rebellions is not meaningless. > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Ok, bub. Let’s suppose the answer is yes–they are morally responsible. What are the consequences? And how are those consequences materially different than if we supposed the answer was no? This is not, of course, a hypothetical question: From [Caribbean Slave Revolts and the British Abolitionist Movement, by Gelien Matthews:](http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=gXUf-wAqvfcC&pg=PA14&lpg=PA14&dq=anti-slavery+writings+rebellions&source=bl&ots=-PFeGVKTh0&sig=_SVPbvXjN3H0XQweF2aP4xSIV-E&hl=en&ei=p8B6StXiFJPc-QbH9YU-&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8#v=onepage&q=&f=false) > [@](#): > > “Abolitionists argued that in addition to their view that slavery was repugnant to religion, humanity and the British Constitution, slave revolts demonstrated the expediency of abolishing a system fraught with danger to the wellbeing of all parties concerned…Abolitionists also argued that slaves armed themselves against the regime because of slavery’s gross inhumanity” Abolitionists percieved that slave revolts: a) endangered the well-being of all parties concerned (i.e. led to bloodshed); b) that the slaves were driven to this by the “gross inhumanity” of slavery. What effect did this perception have? > [@](#): > > “Slavery advocates used the revolts to demand a seizure of the slavery debates, while \*\*activists widened their humanitarian and religious attack against slavery \*\*as well as **demanded limited slavery reform**.” Their perception by abolitionists of slave-owners as “_morally responsible for the injuries incurred in slave uprisings_” led abolitionists to step up their campaign both in terms of principled argument and practical amelioration. As I don’t need to tell anyone here, this campaign ultimately succeeded. I’m not sure we ever defined what “meaningful” means in this context but I’m going to guess that “playing a significant role in ending slavery” counts. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/henry-louis-gates-target-of-death-threats-might-have-to-move/505381/69 "2009-08-06T12:55:04Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > LHOD, you were doing so well, don’t give up now! Show me the consequences, like you did with ice cream-stealin’ Jim. If you’re not trolling, and if you’re not an imbecile, post 57 and 58 should answer the question. Show understanding of those posts (even if you disagree with them), and we’ll continue the lesson. DOn’t, and we’re done. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/henry-louis-gates-target-of-death-threats-might-have-to-move/505381/70 "2009-08-06T13:13:02Z")
I understand those posts. You are saying that the question of whether action x is immoral is not meaningless because it has consequences, and those consequences are that deciding the question may cause someone to change their own behavior or encourage other people to change their behavior. You may now continue. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/henry-louis-gates-target-of-death-threats-might-have-to-move/505381/71 "2009-08-06T15:11:00Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Alistair Crowley was to posuers what Tyrannosaurus was to dinosaurs. He ate them? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/henry-louis-gates-target-of-death-threats-might-have-to-move/505381/72 "2009-08-06T15:15:25Z")
Prof. Gates was a citizen living a normal life. He had trouble opening his door one day and someone thought he might be breaking in. The cops came and Gates was insufficiently polite and the cop arrested him. It was a crappy arrest and a controversy followed. Now Gates gets bombing and death threats. To suggest Crowley is completely blameless for what ensued is absurd. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/henry-louis-gates-target-of-death-threats-might-have-to-move/505381/73 "2009-08-06T15:26:53Z")
Oh, come on- Crowley can hardly be held responsible for the actions of a bunch of nutjobs. It’s not as though he’s asking people to blow up Gates’ house, and if anyone is asking him I’m sure he’s denouncing this. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/henry-louis-gates-target-of-death-threats-might-have-to-move/505381/74 "2009-08-06T15:40:08Z")
> [@Article](#): > > “You should die; you’re a racist,” Is this really what constitutes a a death threat these days? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/henry-louis-gates-target-of-death-threats-might-have-to-move/505381/75 "2009-08-06T16:12:48Z")
Its all Abraham Lincoln’s fault. If he wouldn’t have freed the slaves, Gates wouldn’t be a Harvard professor in the first place, so this incident with Crowley would never have occurred. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/henry-louis-gates-target-of-death-threats-might-have-to-move/505381/76 "2009-08-06T16:37:22Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I understand those posts. You are saying that the question of whether action x is immoral is not meaningless because it has consequences, and those consequences are that deciding the question may cause someone to change their own behavior or encourage other people to change their behavior. You may now continue. Great. So do you agree with this reasoning or not? If you disagree with the reasoning, explain why; if you agree with it, then I expect never to see you suggest that the question of whether action x is immoral is meaningless again. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/henry-louis-gates-target-of-death-threats-might-have-to-move/505381/77 "2009-08-06T16:40:17Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > Is this really what constitutes a a death threat these days? Yes, it’s really more of a _death suggestion_. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/henry-louis-gates-target-of-death-threats-might-have-to-move/505381/78 "2009-08-06T16:43:48Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Oh, come on- Crowley can hardly be held responsible for the actions of a bunch of nutjobs. It’s not as though he’s asking people to blow up Gates’ house, and if anyone is asking him I’m sure he’s denouncing this. He is not responsible for each and every death threat, but he created the problem with his bad arrest. If he left without collaring Gates, there would be no threats. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/henry-louis-gates-target-of-death-threats-might-have-to-move/505381/79 "2009-08-06T17:12:05Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Great. So do you agree with this reasoning or not? If you disagree with the reasoning, explain why; if you agree with it, then I expect never to see you suggest that the question of whether action x is immoral is meaningless again. You finish the case-in-chief and the I’ll rebut. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/henry-louis-gates-target-of-death-threats-might-have-to-move/505381/80 "2009-08-06T17:20:08Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > If he left without collaring Gates, there would be no threats. Oh, so that’s the proper standard? Then I blame the big bang. If there had been no big bang, there would be no threats. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/henry-louis-gates-target-of-death-threats-might-have-to-move/505381.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/henry-louis-gates-target-of-death-threats-might-have-to-move/505381.md?page=5)