# Herbivore Males **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 21, 2015, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herbivore-males/720543 "2015-05-21T20:07:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herbivore-males/720543/101 "2015-05-27T15:04:56Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > still have aspirations and ambitions in life that extends beyond consumption, and as well a pursuit of meaningful committed relationship with other people. I’m not too impressed either with boys that spend their life playing X-Box games or World of Warcraft. We all gotta try to reach out to each other and otherwise leave a meaningful mark. That’s your opinion. Maybe they want different things from life than you do. How is that a problem, if they are not asking you for money to subsidize their choices, and they are not inconveniencing you by asking to live with you or something like that? Being ambitious and wanting to have a career where you have power over others isn’t going to be possible for everybody to do. If everybody did try to do that, a lot of them are going to fail. Then they probably will be unhappy. How is that an improvement for them over being happy to have no career ambitions? Not everybody is going to have the same tastes in clothes, entertainment, etc that you do. And that’s not a problem. The world is not running short of people, quite the opposite, so some people not wanting to date or have sex isn’t a problem. If Japan wants more people- well, there are lots of people trying to get out of Libya and places like that, maybe some of them would be interested in immigrating. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herbivore-males/720543/102 "2015-05-27T16:13:31Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Its not sexist and its not voluntary. Its biochemical. Also, a society with a proponderence of weak males is going to be gobbled up by another society of more aggressive males. Caveat: Today the weak have the power to vaporize the planet rather than simply be slaughtered or enslaved. For anyone who is thinking of going this route, be aware that invading Japan is a difficult thing to do. The Mongols tried and failed. The same Mongols who managed to conquer Russia and China, so I’m going to say that was probably not due to a lack of military skill on their part. The US was planning to try in 1945. [They ordered enough Purple Heart medals in anticipation of casualties that they were still giving them out into the 2010s.](http://www.stripes.com/blogs/the-rumor-doctor/the-rumor-doctor-1.104348/are-purple-hearts-from-1945-still-being-awarded-1.116756) I’d suggest taking some nuclear weapons if you really want to try to invade Japan. I know, they’re weapons for weak, girly men, but they’re the only thing that has much of a track record for the task. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herbivore-males/720543/103 "2015-05-27T16:20:52Z")
Nn ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herbivore-males/720543/104 "2015-05-27T16:37:56Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > That’s your opinion. Maybe they want different things from life than you do. How is that a problem, if they are not asking you for money to subsidize their choices, and they are not inconveniencing you by asking to live with you or something like that? You appear not to have read what I have written. On a personal level I wish all other men would just goddamn disappear already, or barring that, become herbivores with no interest in female company, then I could have the largest harem in the history of mankind all for myself. In this thread, I replied to a specific question about why a culture dominated by herbivores is bad or could lead to unwanted effects. Those being that society needs traditional male virtues just as much as it needs traditional female virtues. And further on I expressed my view that a life ought to have a purpose other than merely existing and consuming. The last is merely my personal values, feel free to disagree. Besides there are many ways one could express aspirations and ambitions other than through a business career. The most obvious of course being a very important person in someone else’s life. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herbivore-males/720543/105 "2015-05-27T17:00:30Z")
What’s going to happen if Japan is dominated by herbivore males? They’re _not_ going to be invaded by someone else. Even if the rest of the world stood by and allowed that to happen (unlikely to say the least), it’s very difficult to do. The Mongols, who had the largest empire in the world in terms of land area, certainly no shortage of traditional masculine virtues, no qualms about invading other countries, and a technological edge on the Japanese in the form of gunpowder, weren’t able to do it. Does the rest of the world _want_ a more macho, probably more militarized Japan? We weren’t so happy about it [the last time they tried it](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_East_Asia_Co-Prosperity_Sphere). China in particular might not like that idea. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herbivore-males/720543/106 "2015-05-27T17:08:54Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > I’d suggest taking some nuclear weapons if you really want to try to invade Japan. Or, or: we sneak deadly inhalants into their vending machine panties. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herbivore-males/720543/107 "2015-05-27T17:22:15Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Or, or: we sneak deadly inhalants into their vending machine panties. That sounds like something the CIA would have tried to do to Castro in the 60’s. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herbivore-males/720543/108 "2015-05-27T17:53:56Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > What’s going to happen if Japan is dominated by herbivore males? Japan used to be on the forefront with technological innovation and invent a lot of cool stuff. Doesn’t seem to be happening anymore that much. I expect herbivore Japan is helping Japan become a lot less interesting and general do less cool stuff. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herbivore-males/720543/109 "2015-05-27T18:00:54Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Japan used to be on the forefront with technological innovation and invent a lot of cool stuff. Doesn’t seem to be happening anymore that much. I expect herbivore Japan is helping Japan become a lot less interesting and general do less cool stuff. two things: 1. prior to Japan, _we_ were on the forefront of innovation. then Japan came along and did stuff better and/or cheaper. Now China and Korea are taking over for Japan. It’s the way of things. 2. the Japanese industries were at their best when they were _refining_ an existing market. They didn’t invent or popularize the automobile, they just made cars which weren’t as flawed as the ones already on the market. they didn’t invent the electronics industry, they just embraced semiconductors while the West was clinging to its investment in vacuum tubes. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herbivore-males/720543/110 "2015-05-27T19:39:15Z")
They (or at least companies based there) still make good cars. I got a good 10 years out of my Honda Civic, and I like my new Subaru Outback. My previous car was a Pontiac Sunfire, and it was a piece of crap. I doubt any country is ever going to be in the forefront of innovation and stay there forever, at least outside of games of _Civilization_. The real world just doesn’t seem to work that way. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e79b87/32.png) [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Joker_and_the_Thief)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herbivore-males/720543/111 "2015-05-27T20:23:37Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > What’s going to happen if Japan is dominated by herbivore males? They’re _not_ going to be invaded by someone else. Even if the rest of the world stood by and allowed that to happen (unlikely to say the least), it’s very difficult to do. The Mongols, who had the largest empire in the world in terms of land area, certainly no shortage of traditional masculine virtues, no qualms about invading other countries, and a technological edge on the Japanese in the form of gunpowder, weren’t able to do it. > > Does the rest of the world _want_ a more macho, probably more militarized Japan? We weren’t so happy about it [the last time they tried it](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_East_Asia_Co-Prosperity_Sphere). China in particular might not like that idea. Well, Japan had lots of manly men back then. Now they don’t. So their historical preeminence proves nothing more than that they aren’t achieving their potential. Moreover, there is surely some middle ground between an extremely militaristic culture and an extremely effeminate one. But the consequences of a lack of man probably won’t be severe in terms of war, because the US defends the entire free world anyways. Rather, it will probably exacerbate Japan’s already low birthrates and contribute to their upcoming fiscal problems. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herbivore-males/720543/112 "2015-05-27T20:42:06Z")
What are the Japanese women doing about this? Is there also a subculture of Japanese women who are not interested in sexual relationships? Are there more lesbians now? If neither of those things is happening, maybe Japanese women are finding men from other countries, and bringing them back to Japan. If they do that, or if they become mothers without being in a relationship with a man, it might not affect the fertility rate at all. The fertility rate is births per _woman_, after all. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herbivore-males/720543/113 "2015-05-27T20:55:30Z")
… or there’s one really, REALLY super-tired (and happy) dude staggering through the streets of Tokyo, doing his civic duty for the nation’s birthrate. ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herbivore-males/720543/114 "2015-05-27T21:07:22Z")
> [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](#): > > Well, Japan had lots of manly men back then. Now they don’t. So their historical preeminence proves nothing more than that they aren’t achieving their potential. Moreover, there is surely some middle ground between an extremely militaristic culture and an extremely effeminate one. But the consequences of a lack of man probably won’t be severe in terms of war, **because the US defends the entire free world anyways**. Rather, it will probably exacerbate Japan’s already low birthrates and contribute to their upcoming fiscal problems. Slight hijack: No, not really. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e79b87/32.png) [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Joker_and_the_Thief)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herbivore-males/720543/115 "2015-05-27T22:14:34Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > What are the Japanese women doing about this? Is there also a subculture of Japanese women who are not interested in sexual relationships? Are there more lesbians now? If neither of those things is happening, maybe Japanese women are finding men from other countries, and bringing them back to Japan. If they do that, or if they become mothers without being in a relationship with a man, it might not affect the fertility rate at all. The fertility rate is births per _woman_, after all. That’s a good point: a surfeit of worthless males (in a reproductive capacity) is less severe than non-reproducing women. In fact, in terms of evolution, the majority of men did not reproduce (_Is There Anything Good About Men?_, pages 63-70). Unfortunately, according to [this source](‘were not interested in or despised sexual contact,’), 45% of Japanese women aged 16-24 “were not interested in or despised sexual contact”, as opposed to 25% of men. So if anything, the problem is actually worse among women than men. **Lemmytheseal2:** The US serves as the backstop for our allies, discouraging any attack on them because of the threat of overwhelming American retaliation. In this sense we subsidize the defense of much of the free world. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herbivore-males/720543/116 "2015-05-28T01:31:08Z")
16-24 is quite young to be having kids, at least among the middle and upper classes in a developed country. Those women are possibly still finishing college. You can certainly not date much (if at all) in college and still date, marry, and have kids later. I know this from personal experience. The average age of a woman marrying for the first time in Japan is 29, which is comparable to a lot of the richer European countries. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herbivore-males/720543.md?page=5)