# Hercules and gospel truth **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [December 5, 2022, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115 "2022-12-05T10:23:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2022, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115/1 "2022-12-05T10:23:16Z")
> [@NEW Stupid Republican Idea of the Day (Part 2)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day-part-2/959018/6090): > > Likewise, if you wanted to present the lord of the underworld as a _‘businessman ready to chuckle at his own wisecracks’_ type who, as if on a whim, will slap together a salesman-patter offer that maybe seems too good to be true — and who doesn’t seem to have the time or the inclination to quibble over details, lot of irons in the fire, heh, figuratively and literally, how about that, anyway, look, it’s your loss and not mine if you miss out on this amazing deal — then Woods was the guy to cast as Hades for **Hercules** , and full stop. As a liberal Christian, and not a militant one, I’m jovial enough to accept a little teasing and mockery, and I’m not like an ISIS Muslim who will declare a fatwa on somebody for depicting the Prophet Muhammad in a comic strip… …But I immediately turned off _Hercules_ at the very start of the movie when the Muses declared the story of Zeus as being “the gospel truth”. NO. There’s only one gospel truth in my mind, and that’s the Greatest Story Ever Told. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2022, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115/2 "2022-12-05T15:01:09Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > …But I immediately turned off _Hercules_ at the very start of the movie when the Muses declared the story of Zeus as being “the gospel truth”. NO. There’s only one gospel truth in my mind, and that’s the Greatest Story Ever Told. ? Sorry for hijack, and I am not telling you what movies you should watch or what your movie-watching criteria should be, but it seems a bit… unusual to take the phrase “gospel truth” so literally in the sense of religious belief. In specifically Christian usage, of course, it carries the literal sense of “the truth of the Christian gospel”, but in colloquial usage it just means “attested, vouched for”. The Muses “gospel choir” in Hercules is not actually trying to promote sincere adherence to ancient Hellenic pantheism. It’s just a modern storytelling riff on the Greek legend of the Muses as the praise singers of the gods. I mean, IIRC you’re something of an Asimov fan. Do you boycott Asimov stories because the character Karl Frantor in his story “The Weapon Too Dreadful To Use” uses the phrase “gospel truth” in a similarly colloquial fashion to mean “definite fact”, with no implications about asserting or challenging the truth status of Christian gospel? > [@](#): > > “He didn’t threaten, bluff, or lie,” Karl answered warmly. “What he said was the gospel truth. If you had seen the decerebrated man—” ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2022, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115/3 "2022-12-05T17:51:46Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > The Muses “gospel choir” in Hercules is not actually trying to promote sincere adherence to ancient Hellenic pantheism. It’s just a modern storytelling riff on the Greek legend of the Muses as the praise singers of the gods. The Black singers sang about the Hellenistic view of the creation of the world in a distinctly African American style of gospel music, using the words “gospel truth”. That’s a little bit different from your Asimov example. To put it mildly. When someone uses the phrase “gospel truth” in the context of a gospel song, it should be used to describe the Christian Gospel. The story of Jesus. Yet people are more upset about _Lightyear_ and _Amazing Journey_ having LGBT characters than this. I don’t ever see _Hercules_ mentioned among things conservatives are freaking out about. Or anybody _else,_ really. But it chaps my ass, and I’m a _liberal_ Christian. I’d have been willing to watch _Hercules_ if not for the blatant cultural misappropriation of the Christian Gospel. But people were more upset about White people wearing Maui costumes, to the point where they removed them from Walmart. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2022, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115/4 "2022-12-05T18:14:48Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > When someone uses the phrase “gospel truth” in the context of a gospel song, it should be used to describe the Christian Gospel. Well, it appears that your opinion on how it “should” be used is a minority view. But I’m sorry if it upset you. > [@ekedolphin](#): > > But people were more upset about White people wearing Maui costumes, to the point where they removed them from Walmart. Not a great example - the Maui costumes were literally a representation of a Polynesian’s _skin_. That’s beyond “cultural appropriation” and on its way to “blackface”. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2022, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115/5 "2022-12-05T18:16:17Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > The Black singers sang about the Hellenistic view of the creation of the world in a distinctly African American style of gospel music, using the words “gospel truth”. That’s a little bit different from your Asimov example. To put it mildly. When someone uses the phrase “gospel truth” in the context of a gospel song, it should be used to describe the Christian Gospel. Okay, but not really seeing why that should necessarily apply to a gospel-style song. As you note, the Muses’ songs in Hercules are not in any way Christian, they’re just using the musical styles of African-American gospel music. Christian musicians, including African-American Christian musicians, have been using gospel-music styles for songs without Christian themes pretty much since gospel music began. I had thought that objections to gospel/secular stylistic crossover more or less went out with the soul-music career of Sam Cooke (who btw did a whole song explicitly addressed to that notorious pagan deity Cupid), but okay, you do you. And again, apologies to all for this digression on a topic that is AFAICT neither Republican nor stupid. I’ll shut up about it now. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115/6 "2022-12-07T00:41:51Z")
Too bad. You missed out on a really delightful movie. And “the gospel truth” has an idiomatic definition distinct from its religious one. But you do you. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115/7 "2022-12-07T00:46:43Z")
It would never occur to me to take “gospel truth” to refer to refer to the Gospel at all. I’ve only ever heard it as a phrase meaning the same thing as, say, “honest-to-God truth.” When referring to the actual Gospel, I’ve never heard anyone put “truth” after it. > **[Definition of gospel truth | Dictionary.com](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/gospel-truth)** > > Gospel truth definition, an unquestionably true statement, fact, etc. See more. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115/8 "2022-12-07T00:56:39Z")
I hated Disney’s Hercules for the butchering of Greek Mythology to be more Christian. Shrug. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115/9 "2022-12-07T02:05:42Z")
Christianity has been co-opting Greek paganism since the beginning. I don’t mind a little bit of the reverse. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115/10 "2022-12-07T02:08:50Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Christianity has been co-opting Greek paganism since the beginning. And co-opting _Judaism,_ but that’s a whole ‘nother thread… ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115/11 "2022-12-07T02:10:24Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Christianity has been co-opting Greek paganism since the beginning. I don’t mind a little bit of the reverse. Not to mention Judaism. The past, what, 1,600 or 1,700 years of Western culture have been about white Europeans appropriating what we call the “Old Testament”? ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115/12 "2022-12-07T02:14:42Z")
Hercules the movie was just okay, I thought but it has one of my favorite Disney songs in it, “I Won’t Say I’m in Love”. Also it’s very pretty and well animated. I’m glad I watched it and didn’t get hung up on what it did to the source material. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115/13 "2022-12-07T02:16:31Z")
By gospel truth I understood it to mean a work of fiction. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115/14 "2022-12-07T02:26:52Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > the Greatest Story Ever Told. Which story would that be? Harry Potter? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115/15 "2022-12-07T02:56:42Z")
Disney’s _Hercules_ is essentially about the relationship between a human being, raised by human parents, and his relationship with his Divine Father and the travails and ordeals he undergoes in order to better know his Father, who loves him. He is tempted by the malevolent devil figure and his imps. Nowhere in the movie is it stated that the Heavenly Father has any other children (though lots of them appear), and at the end of the movie it is revealed that Hercules will be able to join his Eternal Father in the clouds. There’s some Greek mythology in there, too, around the edges, but there’s a very strong Christian message to the film. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115/16 "2022-12-07T04:37:21Z")
> [@Dung\_Beetle](#): > > I thought but it has one of my favorite Disney songs in it, “I Won’t Say I’m in Love”. Agreed. I love it and it’s on my playlist. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115/17 "2022-12-07T05:12:34Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Not a great example - the Maui costumes were literally a representation of a Polynesian’s _skin_. That’s beyond “cultural appropriation” and on its way to “blackface”. They aren’t born with that skin. It’s art and culture, not natural. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115/18 "2022-12-07T05:30:28Z")
IOKWANWPDI. (It’s okay when a non-White person does it.) This is going to sound bad coming from a liberal Christian, but it seems sometimes that white Christians are one of the few Acceptable Targets left in society. You can’t wear a Maui costume if you’re white. You’ll have someone look at you askance, probably, if you sing “Mary’s Boy Child” if you’re white. > While shepherds watched their flocks by night, > Them see a bright new shining star, > Them hear a choir sing, > The music seemed to come from afar. > > 'Now Joseph and his wife Mary, > Come to Bethlehem that night, > Them find no place to born she child, > Not a single room was in sight. Charlotte Church did in 2000 to brilliant effect, but in the post-Black Lives Matter era of our society, I’d be a little more tentative. But it’s okay to talk about the Disneyified version of the Hellenic creation story while co-opting Christian gospel music, and it chaps my ass. Ray Charles, I can appreciate. The love between two people is holy, too. (“Hallelujah, I Love Her So”). There’s a subtle difference between what he does and what Disney did. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115/19 "2022-12-07T05:41:38Z")
The bar for Christian persecution seems to be set pretty low nowadays. As far as I know, “gospel truth” just means “absolute truth”. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115/20 "2022-12-07T05:54:43Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The bar for Christian persecution seems to be set pretty low nowadays. Okay, okay, granted. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > As far as I know, “gospel truth” just means “absolute truth”. But it was sung in a gospel-style song. You know what? This is the Dope. Citation, please? Okay. > … Back when the world was new > The planet Earth was down on its luck > And everywhere gigantic brutes > Called Titans ran amok > > … It was a nasty place > There was a mess > Whereever you stepped > Where chaos reigned and > Earthquakes and volcanoes never slept > > … And then along came Zeus > He hurled his thunderbolt > He zapped > Locked those suckers in a vault > They’re trapped > And on his own stopped > Chaos in its tracks > And that’s the gospel truth That’s not a low bar for Christian persecution. C’mon, man. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115.md?page=2)