# Hercules and gospel truth **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [December 5, 2022, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115 "2022-12-05T10:23:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115/41 "2022-12-07T14:07:58Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Great, maybe you’ll develop some empathy for members of religious minorities living in a Christian country. I’m an activist, goddamn it. And I went to JCC Broadway Camp for three years. ♫You think you know me? You will never know me.♫ ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115/42 "2022-12-07T14:17:33Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Great, maybe you’ll develop some empathy for members of religious minorities living in a Christian country. A large group attacking a religious minority is a pogrom. A large group attacking an individual is a lynch mob, and that’ smore like what this thread is. So I’m going to bow out of this thread and turn off notifications. Feel free to have fun without your target. You won’t have Dick Nixon to kick around anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115/43 "2022-12-07T14:29:17Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > A large group attacking an individual is a lynch mob, and that’ smore like what this thread is. Here’s a non-snarky reply for you, since you don’t seem to get what I thought was obvious and did not need explaining. There is a huge difference between the majority culture dictating to minority culture what their portrayal will be, [as in the case of the servile black centaur in Fantasia, whose portrayal is based on many decades of white art depicting black people as simple-minded and carefree but clumsy, and always happy to serve] and the majority culture taking elements from other culture and twisting them to match their own cultural expectations [as in the case of the majority Christian artists creating Hercules (and even those who are not Christian are operating in a Christian-derived culture, at a company very much run by Christian people) who created a story by Christians, for Christians, which used elements of another culture - ancient Greece.] You completely ignore this difference, despite having had it pointed out to you numerous times. Other examples of people who ignore this difference are: White supremacists who complain that whites are the only people you can discriminate against Men’s Rights Activists who claim that feminism is male oppression Dave Chappelle, who complains about how the trans people got him cancelled to audiences of thousands, with millions more streaming his special. As you can see, you are not in distinguished company. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115/44 "2022-12-07T14:42:28Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > A large group attacking an individual is a lynch mob, and that’ smore like what this thread is. There have been no attacks in this thread, only explanations as to why others find your reaction to a fictional song in a movie that was made by Christians, for Christians, to Christianize a Greek myth, seems a bit over the top, as well as explanations as to why this doesn’t come anywhere near persecution. If simply being disagreed with is viewed as an attack, then I can see how you find so much to be persecution, but it’s not, it really isn’t. Now, if there were any people who believed in Greek mythology as a religion, _they_ would have a pretty good point in being offended by this movie. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115/45 "2022-12-07T14:50:59Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Now, if there were any people who believed in Greek mythology as a religion, _they_ would have a pretty good point in being offended by this movie. Would they necessarily be offended? Much of our popular understanding of the Greek gods doesn’t come from actual religious texts, it comes from plays and other stories written about them for entertainment rather than worship. And many of these tales conflict with one another. If the Greeks were cool with playwrights at the time making conflicting stories about the gods, perhaps they would view the modern movie Hercules in the same light. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115/46 "2022-12-07T15:02:40Z")
I didn’t say that they _would_ be offended, only that they would have a actual point if they were. > [@Babale](#): > > Much of our popular understanding of the Greek gods doesn’t come from actual religious texts, it comes from plays and other stories written about them for entertainment rather than worship. And many of these tales conflict with one another. This is fairly true of Christian beliefs as well. > [@Babale](#): > > If the Greeks were cool with playwrights at the time making conflicting stories about the gods, perhaps they would view the modern movie Hercules in the same light. Probably most would, just as the overwhelming majority of Christians are fine with the Hercules movie. But, I’m sure that there’d be some believer in Zeus out there that chooses to point out that they are offended by something that they believe it got wrong. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115/47 "2022-12-07T15:09:25Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > No, they took ancient Greek mythology and molded it into a Christian image. I would say rather that they took an ancient Greek myth and shoehorned it into a more standard present-day story telling – not merely Christian, but techno-Western. Both in this film and in the remake of _Clash of the Titans_ (footnote) they set up Zeus as Good Guy against Hades as the Bad Guy, who resents being relegated to the Underworld and wants the Top Dog position – something utterly alien to the Greek conception of the gods and their status. Hades never resented being Lord of the Underworld and didn’t hate Zeus for it. Disneys’ Hercules is the legitimate son of Zeus – there’s none of this Amphytrion business to muddy the works, making the story safe for modern-day kids. Herc. doesn’t fly into homicidal rages, or have extramarital dalliances. Me, I’ve got no problem with the Muses being turned into a Gospel choir that, naturally, sings about the “Gospel Truth”. There’s no sign or evidence of intent to exploit. It’s like all those Shakespeare plays done in modern or period dress. Or Akira Kurasawa appropriating Shakespeare plays for a Japanese setting in _Throne of Blood_ or _Ran_. (footnote) Don’t get me started on the many ways the original _Clash of the Titans_ recast Greek myth – although screenwriter Beverly Cross actually managed to retain a lot of the original. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115/48 "2022-12-07T15:11:26Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > A large group attacking an individual is a lynch mob, and that’ smore like what this thread is. You created the thread for the purpose of, what, exactly? Presumably you expected some people to agree with you, but no one appears to share your belief. How is that attacking? And if we grant that it is an attack, it seems like it’s self-inflicted. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115/49 "2022-12-07T15:12:04Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > A large group attacking an individual is a lynch mob Or a crucifixion. Say, speaking of wood for crosses… ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115/50 "2022-12-07T15:12:14Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > plays and other stories written about them for entertainment rather than worship This is a misunderstanding of Greek culture. Attending plays was part of a religious festival, sacred to Dionysus. It was certainly entertainment, but it was also religion. The plays were sponsored and judged by a panel, so there was some sense of community approbation of what was put on: it wasn’t just a playwright and the marketplace. As for how an Ancient Greek would understand the story, my guess is that they would shrug their shoulders and say “your understanding of the gods is quite different from ours, but then, you’re not Greek, so whatever.” They regularly came into contact with different religions, who had different myths, but understood them through the lens of their own gods. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115/51 "2022-12-07T15:17:19Z")
I am a white, Christian, fairly conservative, Southern male. In today’s American society, I am the butt of almost every acceptable joke. It never occurred to me to consider “gospel truth” (from _Hercules_ or any other source) as a co-opting of the story of Jesus. I’ve heard that phrase my entire life to refer to things the speaker considers absolute or beyond reproof. (Or, at least, the speaker wants me to _believe_ that. Whether it’s actually true is another matter.) ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115/52 "2022-12-07T15:35:54Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > Fine, let’s not get stuck up with what “the gospel truth” means. Either it’s the small-g “honest truth” or the capital-G “Greatest Story Ever Told”. You’re on the right track. Keep repeating this to yourself out loud. You’ll get it eventually! ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115/53 "2022-12-07T15:52:26Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > This is a misunderstanding of Greek culture. Attending plays was part of a religious festival, sacred to Dionysus. It was certainly entertainment, but it was also religion. QFT. There’s a modern cynical tendency to approach ancient religion as though the people then didn’t really believe things themselves. As though they considered them merely stories. This could not be further from the truth. They believed. They believed _hard_. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115/54 "2022-12-07T16:53:12Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I would say rather that they took an ancient Greek myth and shoehorned it into a more standard present-day story telling – not merely Christian, but techno-Western. Totally agree… and I think it’s pretty hard/impossible to untangle modern Western culture from Christian culture. Which makes the position that “they” are persecuting “us Christians” even more confused. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115/55 "2022-12-07T17:16:40Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > You know, it would be nice if I could get just one person showing the least amount of support for my point of view. I feel like I’m being ganged up on. ⁢ Sure, I understand why someone who hadn’t heard the term might get confused by it. And I understand that you’re going through a hard time right now (from the 7-11 thread). But the fact is that “gospel truth” does not refer to the Bible at all. I literally linked the definition to hopefully clear this all up. It really is just a pun on the musical style and the common saying. Disney, especially Disney of the 1990s, would not badmouth Christianity in a major film. And, as I said, I’m also a Christian myself. I was even a more conservative Christian growing up. And yet I never interpreted that line that way. My main issue with Hercules as a kid was how it changed the myth itself. I much preferred the TV show \*Hercules: the Legendary Journeys": it messed with historical accuracy, but kept the myths mostly intact. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115/56 "2022-12-07T17:27:50Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > I haven’t seen a single person show actual respect for my feelings in this thread. Hey! I meant this sincerely. > [@Gyrate](#): > > Well, it appears that your opinion on how it “should” be used is a minority view. But I’m sorry if it upset you. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115/57 "2022-12-07T17:27:59Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > NO. There’s only one gospel truth in my mind, and that’s the Greatest Story Ever Told. The Lord of the Rings? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115/58 "2022-12-07T17:34:57Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > How many liberal Christians do you personally know? You think it’s easy having to say to every friend I meet, “I’m a Christian, but I’m not _that_ kind of Christian?” _Every_ friend? Do they all even _ask_? > [@ekedolphin](#): > > You know, it would be nice if I could get just one person showing the least amount of support for my point of view. I feel like I’m being ganged up on. I can see that. I looks a lot like the “ganging up” that used to go on around here on people who insisted on things like Arabs being a semitic people, so they couldn’t be antisemitic; or that they weren’t terrified of gays, so it wasn’t fair to characterize them as homophobes. You know, folks putting forth ridiculous arguments. I heard a Russian proverb once that went: _when six people tell you you’re drunk, go lie down._ ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115/59 "2022-12-07T19:42:35Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > You created the thread for the purpose of, what, exactly? TBF, ekedolphin AFAICT did not set out to create this thread. He made his initial remark about Hercules in passing in the context of a Pit thread referencing modern conservative Christian clashes with American popular culture, and I opened my big mouth to reply. The vigor and persistence of the subsequent hijacking led the mod(s) to spin the discussion off into this CS thread. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115/60 "2022-12-07T19:45:12Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > The vigor and persistence of the subsequent hijacking led the mod(s) to spin the discussion off into this CS thread. It was spun off as a separate thread at the OP’s request. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hercules-and-gospel-truth/976115.md?page=4)