# Here are the defenses offered (so far) for Trump's “Grab them by the pussy" comment **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 9, 2016, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-are-the-defenses-offered-so-far-for-trumps-grab-them-by-the-pussy-comment/768029 "2016-10-09T03:55:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-are-the-defenses-offered-so-far-for-trumps-grab-them-by-the-pussy-comment/768029/41 "2016-10-09T06:20:10Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Well that’s why it’s scandalous. We elect lecherous old farts all the time. It’s a scandal when it’s someone running on the right. Well there’s Kay Summersby, for one. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-are-the-defenses-offered-so-far-for-trumps-grab-them-by-the-pussy-comment/768029/42 "2016-10-09T06:31:51Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > There. Are. Not. Just. Crass. Comments. He advocated sexual assault. And, yes, that is worse than all those other things you described. There’s a reason why sexual assault is a crime, while those other things are not. > > He wasn’t just rude. Let’s see. - He’s advocated killing enemies’ _families_; he thinks we should have just stolen Iraq’s oil while we were in there; he wants to bring back torture. All war crimes. - He casually suggested a “second amendment solution” for his NRA pals to deal with the Clinton problem if she’s elected; he’s continually egged on pushing and punching at his rallies, causing injuries. Inciting violence is a crime. - He wants to curtail the First Amendment rights of journalists and has brought up the possibility of confining Muslims into interment camps. Unconstitutional and vile. Sure, as a woman, or rather just as a moral human being, I find the latest revealed comments and alleged behavior abhorrent and yes, criminal (if he acted on them, which wouldn’t surprise me). But these are most certainly not the _most_ repulsive, unconstitutional or criminal acts he supports. They’re all reprehensible and should have had his Republican toadies backing the fuck away from him long ago. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-are-the-defenses-offered-so-far-for-trumps-grab-them-by-the-pussy-comment/768029/43 "2016-10-09T06:34:29Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > You’ve never thought or said things like that? _ **Never ever?** _ If you did, it doesn’t make you a bad person. Most normal people get horny, and some vebalize it. Here’s the bottom line. Getting horny is one thing. Grabbing a woman is another. That’s sexual assault. Verbalizing a desire to sexually assault women is sick. Any guy who would “grab” a woman there obviously cares little whether he hurts her, physically or emotionally. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-are-the-defenses-offered-so-far-for-trumps-grab-them-by-the-pussy-comment/768029/44 "2016-10-09T06:47:17Z")
> [@Junior\_Spaceman](#): > > No. So if a woman lets you screw her it’s rape? Your stance would put most of the male population in prison. Trump’s comments are the usual male braggadocio. Trump is certainly a clown and unfit to be President but not on the grounds of these remarks. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-are-the-defenses-offered-so-far-for-trumps-grab-them-by-the-pussy-comment/768029/45 "2016-10-09T06:57:51Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > … > > Trump’s comments are the usual male braggadocio. > > … Not at all. Most men don’t brag that they can grab any woman by the crotch and they’d like it. Most men wouldn’t think of doing that, let alone verbalize it. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-are-the-defenses-offered-so-far-for-trumps-grab-them-by-the-pussy-comment/768029/46 "2016-10-09T07:14:19Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > So if a woman lets you screw her it’s rape? Sometimes. Silence is not the same thing as a yes. That’s why states are moving to what are called, “affirmative consent” laws. These laws, which are meeting the predictable foot dragging and hand wringing, change “no means no” to “only a yes is consent”. See here - [https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/10/14/adults-hate-affirmative-consent-laws-the-college-students-i-meet-love-them/?utm\_term=.1dbbd1401e18](https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/10/14/adults-hate-affirmative-consent-laws-the-college-students-i-meet-love-them/?utm_term=.1dbbd1401e18) > [@](#): > > Your stance would put most of the male population in prison. No, it’s a pretty simple thing to understand. There’s no consent without a direct confirmation. Everyone understands this just fine in other situations. It’s the same if you’re ordering at a restaurant. The waitress can’t just bring you an expensive bottle of wine and say - hey, you didn’t say no. Your neighbor can’t just take over your pool because you didn’t tell him no. The homeless guy can’t just help himself to your money because you tried to avoid eye contact and didn’t say no. Men can’t just assume they’re entitled to have sex with a women unless she says no, or fights back or screams. They have to get an affirmative yes, just like all those other situations. And lets face it - the only kind of yes worth having is an enthusiastic yes. ---
**Author:** ![Junior\_Spaceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Junior\_Spaceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Junior_Spaceman)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-are-the-defenses-offered-so-far-for-trumps-grab-them-by-the-pussy-comment/768029/47 "2016-10-09T07:33:23Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > So if a woman lets you screw her it’s rape? Your stance would put most of the male population in prison. > > Trump’s comments are the usual male braggadocio. Trump is certainly a clown and unfit to be President but not on the grounds of these remarks. If you consider the situation that I was responding to (and which spun directly off Trump’s ‘brag’), as being the only type of sexual contact you can imagine (ie, affecting almost all men), then you have issues beyond what can be solved on a message board. But here’s a primer, in case you ever do find yourself in a room with a woman. Don’t make your first physical approach by grabbing at _any_ part of her body, unless you’ve both established that you both want that to be the way the day’s going to go. It doesn’t matter if you’re a billionaire or the hunkiest Hollywood star. She does not have to say anything to you to establish that her body isn’t yours by right. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-are-the-defenses-offered-so-far-for-trumps-grab-them-by-the-pussy-comment/768029/48 "2016-10-09T10:56:15Z")
Astro- In the future, please take a stand on the issues you post in either GD or Elections. Because there’s no real debate in the OP, I’ll be moving this over to the Pit. Have fun, kids. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-are-the-defenses-offered-so-far-for-trumps-grab-them-by-the-pussy-comment/768029/49 "2016-10-09T11:55:45Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > So if a woman lets you screw her it’s rape? Your stance would put most of the male population in prison. Yes it certainly can be rape, if you knew or reasonanbly should have known that she was not consenting. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-are-the-defenses-offered-so-far-for-trumps-grab-them-by-the-pussy-comment/768029/50 "2016-10-09T13:24:52Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > It should be noted that I’ve never been on board with the idea that men rape women for one reason and one reason only, power, to either display that they have power or show that they have more power than them. I hear that a lot. I think it’s the case, quite a bit I’ll bet, that men rape women for no other reason then that they’re horny (or drunk/high) and decide they’re going to get laid tonight. I’m absolutely not saying Trump raped anyone, but his statements sure gave more credence to the rape=power argument. I don’t think so. Rather, it demonstrates that the opposite is the truth; rape doesn’t equal power, power equals rape. At least for someone like Trump. He wants sexual favors from a woman, he takes it because he _can._ ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-are-the-defenses-offered-so-far-for-trumps-grab-them-by-the-pussy-comment/768029/51 "2016-10-09T13:43:52Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > All I am surprised by is that apparently on a scale of “bad” crass comments apparently rank much higher than racism, xenophobia, islamophobia, intentions to order mass deportations, friendship with dictators etc etc. …a Muslim database, ignoring the Cuba embargo, changing foreign policy towards Russia after being paid by them, not knowing anything about foreign policy and refusing to learn, a tax plan that explodes the debt and fucks over the middle class, advocating war crimes… ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-are-the-defenses-offered-so-far-for-trumps-grab-them-by-the-pussy-comment/768029/52 "2016-10-09T13:46:01Z")
Aside: When I started reading this thread, it was in Elections, and when I got to the end and scrolled up to the top of the page, it had been beamed over to the Pit and me with it. I didn’t even feel my molecules being disassembled and reassembled. That was a first…and very cool! ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-are-the-defenses-offered-so-far-for-trumps-grab-them-by-the-pussy-comment/768029/53 "2016-10-09T13:49:59Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > All I am surprised by is that apparently on a scale of “bad” crass comments apparently rank much higher than racism, xenophobia, islamophobia, intentions to order mass deportations, friendship with dictators etc etc. Muslims, immigrants, and racial minorities weren’t voting for him anyway, and for a lot of the people who _were_ voting for him, those traits are _features_. This, on the other hand, is definitely a bug, because 1) women _were_ voting for him, albeit in smaller numbers than men, and he will be [totally screwed](https://twitter.com/natesilver538/status/712865465878626306) if they abandon him en masse; and 2) evangelicals were a huge part of his base, and while they probably won’t all abandon him, now they’re at least forced to confront their own hypocrisy and engage in pretzel-twisting rationalizations. In other words, he’s always been offensive, but this time he’s being offensive _to his base_ instead of Those Other People Out There. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-are-the-defenses-offered-so-far-for-trumps-grab-them-by-the-pussy-comment/768029/54 "2016-10-09T13:56:37Z")
> [@Fretful\_Porpentine](#): > > Muslims, immigrants, and racial minorities weren’t voting for him anyway, and for a lot of the people who _were_ voting for him, those traits are _features_. This, on the other hand, is definitely a bug, because 1) women _were_ voting for him, albeit in smaller numbers than men, and he will be [totally screwed](https://twitter.com/natesilver538/status/712865465878626306) if they abandon him en masse; and 2) evangelicals were a huge part of his base, and while they probably won’t all abandon him, now they’re at least forced to confront their own hypocrisy and engage in pretzel-twisting rationalizations. > > In other words, he’s always been offensive, but this time he’s being offensive _to his base_ instead of Those Other People Out There. [His base still supports him](http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/politico-morning-consult-poll-229394). > [@](#): > > As of now, GOP voters largely want the party to stand behind Trump. Nearly three-quarters of Republican voters, 74 percent, surveyed on Saturday said party officials should continue to support Trump. Only 13 percent think the party shouldn’t back him. As for the people he alienated; some might well have been willing to support him if he hadn’t targeted them, and others who would likely have ignored him were galvanized to register to vote\* against\* him. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-are-the-defenses-offered-so-far-for-trumps-grab-them-by-the-pussy-comment/768029/55 "2016-10-09T14:00:36Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I don’t think so. Rather, it demonstrates that the opposite is the truth; rape doesn’t equal power, power equals rape. At least for someone like Trump. He wants sexual favors from a woman, he takes it because he _can._ Agreed. I have also doubted this 1970’s era feminist meme, which can be disproved by a 5 minute chat with an actual rapist. However, one of the reasons that Trump’s words are more troubling than they would be coming from a college boy (besides the fact he should be more mature) is the power differential; a college kid has no real way of translating these desires into actuality, a billionaire owner of multiple businesses does. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-are-the-defenses-offered-so-far-for-trumps-grab-them-by-the-pussy-comment/768029/56 "2016-10-09T14:07:39Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Aside: When I started reading this thread, it was in Elections, and when I got to the end and scrolled up to the top of the page, it had been beamed over to the Pit and me with it. I didn’t even feel my molecules being disassembled and reassembled. That was a first…and very cool! Watch a handful of Star Trek “transporter gone wrong” episodes and you won’t think that way again 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-are-the-defenses-offered-so-far-for-trumps-grab-them-by-the-pussy-comment/768029/57 "2016-10-09T14:08:30Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Oh please. Many many people have said things slike this. In my younger days when I was with the guys, we’d say things somewhat like that. I know I’ve sad things like, I’d jump her bones, and the like. And women - many of them have said similar things, like Hey, I’d wrap my legs around that, or I’d f### him in a heartbeat. > > Who doesn’t agree with this, and why not? If a Democrat says it, they get a pass. But if a Republican says it, they are immediately branded as spawn of Satan. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-are-the-defenses-offered-so-far-for-trumps-grab-them-by-the-pussy-comment/768029/58 "2016-10-09T14:19:29Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > If a Democrat says it, they get a pass. But if a Republican says it, they are immediately branded as spawn of Satan. You’re too stupid to know what you’re talking about (already debunked in this very thread) and too stupid to know when not to post something that’s gonna make you look even dumber than you already look. Also, you’re as predictable as the sunrise. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-are-the-defenses-offered-so-far-for-trumps-grab-them-by-the-pussy-comment/768029/59 "2016-10-09T14:27:46Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > There. Are. Not. Just. Crass. Comments. He advocated sexual assault. And, yes, that is worse than all those other things you described. There’s a reason why sexual assault is a crime, while those other things are not. > > He wasn’t just rude. Well, let’s be fair. He advocated sexual assault for famous people. Much like taxes, there are different rules for you and me. ---
**Author:** ![Lucky\_Mike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de053/32.png) [@Lucky\_Mike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucky_Mike)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-are-the-defenses-offered-so-far-for-trumps-grab-them-by-the-pussy-comment/768029/60 "2016-10-09T14:31:20Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > No of course not! That is not what I am saying. If he reaches for a woman’s crotch, and if she sees him reach and she does not pull back or turn or say no but instead stands there and lets him do it, and after he has touched her crotch she does not act or say No, then hasn’t she allowed it? Isn’t it consensual? No, it is not consensual. I hope you are truly fighting your own ignorance here. The scenario you outline is a text book definition of non-consensual sexual contact. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-are-the-defenses-offered-so-far-for-trumps-grab-them-by-the-pussy-comment/768029.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-are-the-defenses-offered-so-far-for-trumps-grab-them-by-the-pussy-comment/768029.md?page=4)